T/Atime

ive always loved the 16x8 gta deep dish fronts. im too cheep to buy 2 more. so been thinking about switching the fronts to the back and use spacer and longer wheel studs. this would give the car a wider stance. anyone try this?

Krik

iTrader: (4)

Around here its only $6 per tire to remove/replace. For $36 you could just get the tires rotated.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

the fronts will bolt right up to the rear, but rears wont fit the front without a spacer (is this what you meant?).

I believe you may be able to get away with as little as a 1/8" spacer, in which case you may not need new studs in the front.

or if you get a 1le brake upgrade, or any other front upgrade that used a hub and slip on rotor, you again dont need spacers to put the rears on the front

T/Atime

Yes! exactly, where can i buy a slip on spacers?

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

where cant you buy one?

summit, jegs, baer, wilwood, ebay, any circle track shop or site, probably brembo, ebiach, ect ect ect ect ect

you should measure and see if 1/8 will work.

if you need 1/4, i happen to have a set laying around

T/Atime

so if i want to check i have to use a mock spacer 1/8th and turn wheel right to left?? do i need to have the car on the ground??

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

Yes it needs to be on the ground to check turning clearance.

But I KNOW it will fit just fine if you use a factory aluminum drum-sized slip-on spacer, which was 16mm (1/4"), without changing out the wheel studs.

I have a friend that says he swapped his without any spacer & as far as we know, it wasn't equipped with 1LE brakes. So I guess you could try it without the spacers, but I wouldn't be surprised if they hit & you needed the spacers.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

16mm is the difference between the front and rear wheel offsets, but 16mm is approximately 5/8", not 1/4".

Rear wheels on the front without spacers, and the car won't even roll. Oh sure, it will move with the engine forcing it, but try to push it, and it'll feel like the parking brake is engaged.

I doubt you'd need a spacer as thick as 5/8" for functionality, but how thin you could go would require some trial-and-error. However, anything thinner than 5/8" might negatively-affect the appearance, placing the wheels noticeably deeper inside the front wheel wells.

I have front wheels on the rear(fronts all around). I picked-up an extra set of wheels(fronts and rears) so I could send 4 fronts(my original 2 fronts and the extra set's 2 fronts) out to be chromed. So for the couple of weeks the car was parked waiting, I had it on the 4 rear wheels, and it wouldn't budge. So a spacer is definitely necessary with rear wheels on the front.

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

Well, I have a pair of the OEM aluminum drum slip-on spacers I was referring to & they certainly are not 5/8". Only (about) 1/4" thick.

Yes, 16mm is the offset difference between the front & rear wheels. But the spacer is all the thickness that is needed to fit rears on the front.

GM part number 14091902
.30 inches thick

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

.030 is half the thickness of a valve spring shim, nowhere near 1/4". Something as thin as .030" would be too thin to provide any stable spacing between wheels and drums; you wouldn't even know it's there. So I'm guessing that's a typo, and you probably mean .300"? That's a little thicker than 1/4".

Regardless, if a spacer is required between the wheel and the face of the drum, then it would have to be because the width of the axle, wheel-mounting-surface to wheel-mounting-surface(drum-face to drum-face), is apparently short of being the proper width for locating the rear wheels at the correct distance apart from each other. So if these are used only with aluminum drums, then the depth of an aluminum drum is apparently not as deep as an iron drum. So an iron drum rear axle is apparently wider than an aluminum drum rear axle, drum-face to drum-face, and the spacers would be needed to make-up for that lack of width.

Also, that spacer would have nothing to do with the space needed to use rear wheels on the front. So if it happens to workout that the width works for that, then it's merely coincidence.

But for the record, 25.4mm = 1", so 12.7mm is 1/2", therefore, 16mm would be approximately 5/8".

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

Yes, typo. 0.30 is the thickness of them.


Geez.....
You are reading too much into what I said. It was OEM on the early aluminum drum 3rd gens. "Aluminum drum" has NOTHING to do with this application. Nothing at all. Just referencing where they came from originally.

I don't know, or care, WHY the aluminum drum cars used them. Maybe it was because of getting the resulting track-width to be the same? Maybe because it was of a material difference problem between the wheels & the aluminum drums? I don't know & I don't care.



What matters is this....
They are already out there & work fine, which is why I mentioned them. Excuse me for telling anyone about what is out there. I'll stop trying to tell things, if I'm gonna have to explain it in finite detail over & over & over. They work, end of story.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

In the above post, you said 16mm is 1/4", which isn't correct. And you seemed to believe the spacer was that size because the wheel's offset is 16mm. So I was merely correcting that in a friendly manner, hence the after my reply. No harm was meant.

It was a lot nicer than the guys who lurk the site simply looking for opportunities to jump in and shout: WRONG!!! LOL

--------

And here, I was confirming that you're right. The first time I got new tires, the shop installed the rears on the front. But they figured it out when they tried to move the car out of their garage lol. And I've done this myself, for reasons I mentioned in another post, so I can confirm that they will hit, so spacers will be needed.

And thanks to you, we now know that a spacer of only 1/4" is all that's necessary to make it work.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

the factory spacers are 6mm. about 1/4". 16mm is the difference in offset front to rear, but whats the real issue here is clearance of the 16" wheel to the tie rod end in the front. You only have room for 5" of back spacing before a wheel, smaller than 18" in diameter, will hit the tie rod end. The rear wheels have 5.125" of BS, so with a 1/8" or 1/4" spacer, you will be able to mount the rear wheel on the front and clear the tierod.

Also, if you have a brake upgrade with a hub and slip on rotor, that will also allow you to install the rears on the front. A factory 1le brake setup will also allow you to do this since it pushes the front wheels out about 3/4" each side

T/Atime

thanks for all the replys! if i use a 1/4 spacer will this be considered safe with factory wheel studs? i have factory single piston front calipers at the moment.
im also in the process of installing a pro kit with refinishing gta wheels (painted black) so switching the wheels might only be a small change but this might give the car the stance that im after.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

they should be fine, you just have to see what kind of thread engagement you have. Like said before, these cars had factory spacers from time to time that were 6mm and they used stock studs.

how old are your rotors? if you cant remember when they were new, this would be a good time to replace them and possible add the longer stubs if needed

T/Atime

"newer rotors" 50,000km, ill try the spacers in a few weeks when i get new tires (wide oval). ill put up some pics

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

About 2 months ago I found my old car, which has rear crosslaces on the front & front crosslaces on the rear. I had forgotten about the car, sold it 10 years ago, and the factory slip-on spacers was exactly what we did back then & are what is still on the car. OEM rear spacers on the front, rear wheels on the front & front wheels on the rear.

My daughter bought the car & is enjoying it being back & all the old memories it brought back.

Chadmon

I did this today and found that the wheels need to be torqued correctly and possibly have an alignment done. Nobody likes the infamous death wobble.

T/Atime

alignment? something doesnt sound right. did you tighten down lugs gradually in a cross pattern?

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

sounds like you screwed up? is there a good story behind this?

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I always like to post up so people can see a real world example. This is my Camaro with four "Front" wheels on it.





It's pretty subtle, the rears dont stick out godawful far like the fourth gen rears do. Basicaly any aftermarket wheels are going to have the same offset front and rear so you probably see it a lot more than you think you do.

Unfortunately those GTA wheels seem kind of hard to find, so getting a hold of 2 more fronts would be kind of tough I guess.

T/Atime

thanks for the pics! looks just a little more bad with the fronts all around, thumbs up! Id like to keep looking for 2more rims. it might take some time though... im hoping before they come out with 18"x9 gta cross lace, lol.

Chadmon

Yeah it wobbled at 40mph. I used my impact gun and always cross pattern my lug nuts. when i put it back the way it was it was fine. So im just as stumped. But i have found some front wheels and i think im going to run fronts all the way around as well because even with the spacer my inner wheel weights touched the tie rod just barely. enough to smear old grease on it and i dont like that at all. Im just ready to rotate my nice new yokohamas!! lol

Chadmon

Figured i'd post a pic of mine as well lol

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I took some better pics to illustrate the look:






It's VEEEERY subtle.

T/Atime

ive been looking for this exact shot for a few weeks now. know one could post this before. looks perfect! theres no rubbing right?

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

None at all that I'm aware of. But I've got some Koni yellows and some cut stock springs, so it's very stiff.

T/Atime

im also running yellows set on 2 all around sitting on a pro kit. looks like yours sits about the same hight as mine.

devianb

Thought I would chime in with pictures. Previous owner had the fronts on the rear and the rears on the front. I left it this way since I have not had any major problems. Hard to notice the offset difference without getting out a measuring tape or looking closely. I like the look, but the front clearance is a little too close without a spacer.



The tie rods are very close and the lip on the strut sometimes scrapes on full lock.

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

Hmm I did this to my 86 a while back. The fronts looked awesome on the rear.

I will probably get the car back down with the new suspension during the week. I will swap out the wheels and take some pictures.