broke91firebird

Hey all, I'm not sure if this belongs here or if the DIY-OROM forum would be better but I figured I'd start here as its v6 related.
I finally got my 3.4/3400 hybrid all together and tried to start it. It would run for about 10 seconds before dying. After a bunch of playing around we(my father and I) dropping the initial spark advance setting to 0 and now it'll run but it still sounds like it has too much spark advance.
at idle it runs about 25-26 defrees advance and that climbs to 36ish degrees by 3500 rpm.
Will dropping the main spark advance table help bring the timing down more?

broke91firebird

I forgot to specify this is with the BAWX mask

RBob

iTrader: (1)

How are you checking the at-crank timing?

RBob.

broke91firebird

I'm using Tunerpro to see what the ecm is seeing for timing

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The ECM isn't 'seeing' any timing. That is a commanded value. Doesn't mean that is what is at the at-crank timing.

When you end up with a timing light on the crank, be sure it is a regular one. NOT a dial back as they don't work with a DIS system.

Since you are running BAWX, a distributor calibration on a DIS system, you need to change three parameters:

Set the initial SA to 70° BTDC
Set the maximum SA to 0° BTDC
Set the minimum SA to -66°BTDC

Will likely need to modify the XDF for that last parameter...

There is more information in this thread, but really need to read it all and dig out what is relevant.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/5...ighlight=level

RBob.

broke91firebird

RBob.

oh ok. I didn't know that.
I will read that link thank you

broke91firebird

Rrob question. I see in that post, that you mention using $6E. That's the XDF file, right? Would that be better versus the 88 XDF im using currently?

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

That's the mask, you can't use an XDF for a different mask for your BIN, you'll get jumbled data at best.

Stick with the XDF you have and change the parameters with those names.

broke91firebird

ok thank you

broke91firebird

Ok so I'm either a moron or I'm missing the obvious. Where do I find the minimum and maximum spark advance settings? I can't find anywhere to edit these numbers

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Doesn't look like they are in the XDF file. Since they are rarely changed that is likely why. Can either add them or hand edit the BIN via the hex editor

RBob.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

There might be a more defined XDF as well. I know Robert Saar was trying to make very complete XDFs for a while. Check on gearhead-efi.com.

broke91firebird

Thank you Six_Shooter, I'll do that

Rrob do you have a link to a how-to on editing or adding to the xdf? I've never tried any of that before

broke91firebird

Rrob I stumbled upon some guys talking about using $a1 with a BAWX bin in a corsica. They never posted if it worked.
Have you heard of anyone else using this?

broke91firebird

Ok, thank you both. I'm definitely getting somewhere. Between 1200 and 5000 rpm it runs great and sounds great.
on start up though, it shoots black smoke and it won't run below 1100-1200 most of the time. Occasionally I can get it down to 1000 rpm then it'll suddenly die.
these rpm ranges are all display values in tunerpro dashboard.
I'm going to check the iac tomorrow to see if its plugged.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

I'm going to make a suggestion that will at least allow the engine to start and run, but you may need to flip back to what you're using in the long run due to actual vehicle setup.

Anyway, grab a FWD bin file and upload it to your Ostrich or EEPROM (I don't recall which way you're tuning), this will have everything correct settings for the ignition. to verify that side of things.

Also do you have larger than stock injectors? IIRC stock for the bin file you're using is about 19 lbs/hr, if you're using larger injectors you can experience similar symptoms to what you are seeing. If so, you will need to make some changes to account for the injectors.

broke91firebird

Thats a good idea Six_Shooter I'm going to do that, thank you.
I'm using tuneroro v5. Ya according to the part numbers, they're 17lb injectors and the tune was set of 15lb so that helped. Once i figured out that by adjusting the "spark advance" in the older $88 i was actually adjusting the "spark angle reference" in the newer $88 tune i git from gearhead_efi.
Now its running and idling but not yet correct. Under heavy acceleration, its got a spark knock. Its either too lean or the timing is still too advanced

broke91firebird

I got it running, smoking terribly but running. Today I tried unplugging the injector to see if it was more excess fuel or oil in the cylinder. I cleaned and dried the plug then ran the car for about 30 seconds. The plug was soaked with oil. I'm currently letting it sit with marvel mystery oil with the hope that the rings are just struck.
any other things to look for before I pull the motor back out?

1989karr

What do you have in the motor?


Not a hybrid expert but I recal lseeing that you need to get the 3.4 block, and change to i think it was 3400? Pistons, or the compression would be wrong?

broke91firebird

1989karr
Its a 3.4l block bored .010 over to straighten out the bores. The pistons are custom made forged jobs made to the 3400 piston specs. The crank and rods are factory either 3.4 or out of the 3400. I'm not sure which, I bought the block already honed and most of the parts as a package deal many years ago.
the cam is a Delta cams

1989karr

did you check basic things like compression / add oil to compression, fuel pressure etc?

broke91firebird

fuel pressure is 42 with te engine off, around 38 with the engine running. Compression in 1,2,3,5and 6 is all 150-155. Number 4 is 190 but its leaking oil in, so that doesn't count.
what do you mean be "add oil to Compression "?

1989karr

compression seems good!

i meant a wet compression test...couldn't think of the word.


Given that the components are correct physically/ mechanically.... sounds like timing?....could it be that the ignition module may be bad? I think it was your build that you used the old one from the donor vehicle??

You description matches my old FWD 2.8 when the ignition plate / module under the coils went bad, so even if you get the timing correct etc.. its still won't run correct... those are known at least on the older ones to crap out.