KG427KG427

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trying to decide if i should buy this 3.4 L engine here is a picture of the Heads. im doing a 3.1 to 3.4-3.5 build. can anyone tell is this is a FWD or RWD ? i can only use a RWD ? im keeping my car auto i have a 700r4.
i have a 91 3.1 with 320K so im trying to piece together a 3.4 and rebuild it with a new cam and everything for a nice ~200hp daily driver hoping for 30+mpg highway what should i offer him? and i only need the block and heads or what else do i need to ask from him he said its out of a 1994 camaro he said blown head gasket.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Those are RWD/gen1 heads.

KG427KG427

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ok i just sent u a pm thank you. so i will be fine with that RWD. the will work with my 700r4 and 9 bolt 3.27

KG427KG427

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What else do I need besides the block and heads from the 3.4L v6 it's from a 94 Camaro to get started to building it up.

I can use my v6 3.1 computer and I'm going to get new fuel injectors and water pump etc. I heard I can get smog legal headers too! Even for California ked posted something about that and yes I'm back on the 3.4 build the ls1 is too much for me rather build a 3.4 and no1 will no it's a 3.5 with a cam and 1.6 rockers and I already have a new 700r4 tranny 1 year old with 2.5 exhaust pipes cai so this is my best route for my daily driver.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I really dont see a real gain in useing the heads off a gen 1 3.4L. The only thing that would make a read difference is to use the block. Mainly the difference in cubic inches will help gain you some Hp. 20 Hp over your stock 3.1L. So i would just reuse all the items off your 3.1L except the block, pistons, rods, crank...exc

Correct me if im wrong but arnt 3.4L iron heads the same as a 3.1L?

DeathStarr89

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Yep, same heads.

KG427KG427

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With that being said I might as well get the heads from the 3.4 so while I'm still driving my 3.1 I have can the block worked on and the heads I can get worked on.

fasteddi

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Heres some things to think about.

What all parts do you need/want and how much money do you want to put into this engine? What are your hopes and exspectations?

If it was me...

Get a aldl cable from aldlcables.com You have to datalogg this puppy because its a speed density system. Believe me you'll never get a good idle or Mpg at all without that to base the tune off of.

Honestly Id get a Wideband o2 sensor kit becasue I cant tune WOT for you very well without knowing your exact AFR. I can tune it but it wont be at its best(it'll be so conservitive that you wont take advantage of all the hp you can get)

I would add the delta 260 cam.

Retain the stock rocker arms unless you have 100-200 bucks burning a hole in your pocket.

Learn how to port the heads yourself(the amount of money to pay someone to do it is a joke considering how bad they flow in the first place) Either port them yourself or just leave them be. But I will say the heads are so restrictive in there stock form its not even funny. Mine are ported pretty damm good, and I still see that there restrictive even with a turbocharger pushing mass air in there.

Put in new valve springs, retainers, and locks.

New timing chain set.

Get a set of felpro (blue) head gaskets.

A whole felpro intake gasket set and water pump gasket set.

New felpro head bolts.

New dizzy O-ring(believe me they go bad and you dont wana change that later)

Get some lucas oil engine break in additive(at napa) It has a zzdp additive for the cam break in.

Get some Lucas oil engine assembly lube(autozone or napa) This is for when you put the cam in, lifters, and assemble the heads/pushrods.

If your ever going to do anything to the exhaust now is the time.



If you just add the cam, port the heads, and tune it a bit you will be surprised. I was laying down about 8 second for my 0-60mph times with that and it was a 3.1L. A stock 3.1L is about 10-11 seconds so I would say i gained a solid 15-20Hp and thats alot on these engines IMO. Just think your 3.4L will start out with 20 more then a 3.1L anyways.

project89

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i just showed him were to get 1.6 stamped or roller tip rockers in the other thread for under 70 bucks

fasteddi

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Oh then Id buy them up for that price. I just didnt wana see him spend 200 bucks on roller tip rockers that wont add there worth.

project89

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most ppl dont relize that factory rocker are all over the place and can range from 1.3-to just over 1.5 or worse

so yes upgrading the rockers can be a worthwhile investment but dont expect them to be the magic cure all for making hp

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

No your right on that. I do think he needs to learn how to port those heads up though. It was a long process for me but i know it helped more then anything.

KG427KG427

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thank you thank you this is very helpful info! about the wideband o2 sensor kit if its as easy as installing the moates chip i will be able to do it.

KG427KG427

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i already did exhaust i put the dynomax set up with the 2.5 inch pipes. i really want to find legal california headers.

oil pan 4

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I have a great ported intake setup for RWD on ebay. Ported, bead blasted about as good as you are going to find any where.
If you are looking for iron head porting tips ask jensen73110, he bought my ported and polished 2.8L cylinder heads and I bet he took some pics of them

Fallen2603

KG427KG427,

I have a set of ported cylinder-heads that project89 did up for me a while back. I'm not using them, so I'd be more than willing to make a deal with you. PM me if you're interested.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

OP.. if you can get heads that project89(dave) ported/polished.... Get them if you can. He knows how to work those things good.

project89

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fallen i know its been a few years now, didnt i do those heads for a turbo build?

if i rember right those heads have comp cams springs locks and retianers and i modified the chambers for turbo use, along with modifying the chamber shape

KG427KG427

iTrader: (1)

Well I don't mind shipping my heads if project is up for a little side job. I'm in no rush

Fallen2603

You're right, I believe you did do them for a turbo build I was planning at the time. I'm guessing that means they wouldn't be that well suited for an N/A build, correct?

project89

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i do port them differently for na and turbo, they would work ok , but would have a drop in compresion from the chamber mods.iirc about a .3 drop

fasteddi

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Im sure those heads are way better then mine. Mabey I should pick them up it the OP doesnt. How good are those heads dave? Would only take me a few hrs to do the switch.

project89

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iirc i set them up for a high boost turbo build when fallen was going for a high powered v6 build , i have pics in my photobucket somewere of them

Fallen2603

I also have pictures of them. PM me with your e-mail address and I can send them to you.

KG427KG427

iTrader: (1)

Dropping off block today at my dads buddy's shop.

I'm going to have him do al heads and porting and he is going through the whole thing.

KG427KG427

iTrader: (1)

Besides getting gen 3 AL heads
1.6 rockers
I need help with a part list to give to my machine shop guy.
Etc. what kind of timing chain,pistons , seals.


What is everything I can do for a great 3.4 build this car I'm keeping.

Fasteddi I ordered the cable

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

If you putting al heads on there you need the pistons and some other stuff of the gen 3 engine also. If you don't get the pistons off the gen 3 engine youll have like 13:1 compression or some ungodly number like that with the 3.1L pistons.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Stock timing chain
3400 pistons (to keep compression from going off the scale, just about)
Whatever cam and lifters you want, but you also want matching valve springs (if you don't have them already)
Get a complete gasket kit for a 3400. You WILL need a different oil pan gasket (2.8/3.1/3.4 RWD) and you can make the water pump gasket out of RTV silicone. And possibly a new oil pan if yours looks like junk (they can be found cheap... I got mine for $40 shipped). And you will probably want the added security of a new oil pump inlet screen.
You need the oil pump drive off of a FWD vehicle OR Camaro 3.4 as well (no dizzy means no oil pump spinning without it).
There is no such animal as off-the-shelf CARB approved headers for the 2.8/3.1/3.4. None of them have the AIR hookups.
The guy at the machine shop WILL have to measure for and order new custom-length pushrods.

KG427KG427

iTrader: (1)

this is a great help thank you, this shop can pretty much handle anything im just making a parts list and telling him basically what i want to do. he was asking about the Delta Cam 260 about a number. so make sure it will pass smog?? as well

KG427KG427

iTrader: (1)

what piston should i go with and lifts and what are matching valve springs.

sorry im completely lost on this 1.

and does this mean i would have to run like 91 or 89 gas instead of 87 ??


is it worth it to change from iron gen 1 to gen3 al ??

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

3400 pistons... No ifs ands or buts about it unless you want to have a grenade under your hood and use either race fuel or avgas.
You need to call Delta and make sure they can give you a cam that's CARB certified. They will also tell you what springs you should be running.
Iron to Gen3 nets approximately +50 HP (160 to 210)/+30 Torque (210 to 240), changing pistons. (pretty sure numbers are off but I don't have time to rework the numbers ATM)

KG427KG427

iTrader: (1)

so im a little lost on what exactly i need to tell my machine shop about this 3.4.

i currently have a 3.1L and i already have the RWD 3.4L that i want to build up to perfection. I live in california so i cant do headers and if i get a delta cam 260 grind i will still pass smog?? also if i change the 3.4 RWD gen 1 heads to gen 3 alu heads do i have to change my ecu ?? and what ignition system should i use or is the best and i have to be smog legal.

what forged pistons should i get i know they will be expensive but this is going to be built to be my car forever so anything that i can do to this please let me know.

so since i cant do HEADERS.

what is everything i can do to help release the restriction of the engine.

what should i bore the block... and the plenum

what kind of forged pistons , pushrods, 1.6 rockers, what else
260 delta cam
gen 3 al heads polished ..

i have been reading just kinda lost and im not even 100% on what im even saying.. :/

seems like there are so many little things i need to do.

KG427KG427

iTrader: (1)

Can I get or buy any alu heads I don't mind changing the pistons or anything as long as I don't have to change my ecu.

caffeine

iTrader: (2)

Since you have a 3.1 you already have a 7730; You can tune it yourself or probably a 3400 swap chip for a J-body would work pretty well. Running it without any tuning will restrict power.

As for forged pistons I'm pretty sure WOT-tech.com sells them but for N/A you should never need forged pistons for longevity unless you had high compression. Plenty of people are running boost with stock pistons.

And for ignition with aluminum heads you need to use DIS; the 3.4 will already have the sensor in the block for it and it's pretty simple to wire in (uses the wires that go the stock ICM and coil).

When it comes to headers, maybe someone should look into whether the eBay S10 2.8 headers fit F-bodies, since they do have AIR hookups.

caffeine

iTrader: (2)

Actually I forgot it wouldn't run with the stock chip unless you burned a new one with DIS ignition settings. If you're worried about tuning, a J-body 3400 swap chip would probably work pretty well.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

As for the pistons... I wouldn't think you would need forged ones unless your planning on making some serious horsepower and tq or have a pile of $$ burning a hole in your pocket. There not cheep either. Arround 500-700 bucks for a set IIRC. My stock pistons have held up well. I had a issue last year with a ring but that's it. If you want newer pistons go with hyper. ones(keith black ones or something like that). Project89 can give you some advice on them if no one chimes in. I know he had a set in his 3.1L turboed car.

KG427KG427

iTrader: (1)

ya the shop said i need new pistons. damn hate how i have to keep the iron heads!

project89

iTrader: (1)

look on ebay and u can usually find a brand new set of keith black or othe rpistons on there for 30 bucks a set , just make sure they are for the iron heads


if ur building the 3.4 u can use pistons out of a 3.4 doohc motor for more compression , but it needs to be tuned carefully if u run 86/87 octane fuel

project89

iTrader: (1)

there are no cheap piston sets on ebay right now for the 3.4

ur next best bet would be to buy this kit with .030 over pistons and rings

u would have to ask the machine shop if u need standard bearings or oversized bearings before ordering the kit

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevy-Pontiac-3-4-Engine-Kit-Pistons-Rings-Timing-93-95-/190527648564?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c5c553334&vxp=mtr

the kit is all brand name stuff i would trust

KG427KG427

iTrader: (1)

I'm interested pm me