OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

I am replacing all the gaskets on my 2.8 MPFI firebird engine , and I noticed that the gasket kit intends for me to use just RTV silicone on the front and rear edges of the lower manifold to block contact area . ( I've seen this area referred to as the "China Wall" ? ) ....... Anyway , yea , the question here is , , , Will RTV alone be durable enough of a gasket , or is there a higher priced option that has the rubber U shaped seal that sits over the machined gasket surface of the block ?

...... I ask only because it sure looks like the original RTV only seal had blown out on both the front and back of the manifold , and all seemed well with the PCV vacuum draw and compression tests of the cylenders (no cylenders pressurizing the crankcase through worn rigs , in other words) ........

So , is RTV the best answer here , or is there a more reliable gasket type I should be lookin into ?

Thanks in Advance for any insight into this

project89

iTrader: (1)

i dont recall if they make rubber end seals for the china wall for the v6 like they do on the sbc.

that being said even if u could get them ive always had better luck with ultra black rtv then the rubber end seals

just be sure u clean the mating surfaces of the china wall and intake well if they are oilly or greasy the rtv will not stick

Gumby

no one uses them rubber seals, even TV show toss them out and use RTV. As the rubber seals 99% of the time just squeeze out befoe you even got it torqued down right.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I agree with what has been said. I used some Black RTV on mine and it works well. I dont think they ever used a rubber seal on th V6 anyways. I know personally there was no seal there when I initially took apart my stock engine. I've never had a isse with the RTV leaking or blowing out/in.

So if ya just lay a bead of RTV down, lay the lower intake on there for a bit allowing the RTV to set up a bit then tighten down to specs and you'll be good. 15ft/lbs on the first pass then 22ft/lbs tot. for the second pass when tightening down.

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

A huge Thank You to project89 , Gumby , and fasteddi for the responses !

You gents answers have given me the confidence to trust the RTV only gasket , I figure if the most frequent posters to the V6 board all use the RTV , well then it's gotta be good ......

For sure , the original gasket was the one GM put in there when the built it in 89 , because I'm the second owner of the car , the first owner being a good friend of mine , and neither of us had ever had the manifold off before . I guess 23 years of being exposed to oil and the pressures/vacuums of the crankcase , it was plenty due to begin leaking .

Funny , this car has only just turned 80K miles , ran like new , and has not one spot of rust anywhere . But , in 23 years worth of limited use , each and every seal and gasket have dried out to the point that laeking fluid costs were more than the gas costs ! I've got the engine and tranny out , the tranny is all cleaned up and i"ve replaced the front , rear , shift shaft , TPS cable , dipstick , and pan seals/gaskets . New filter too , of course . Now , I've gotta get on cleaning the engine so I can regasket it .

I'll try to attach a couple of photos , , , lets see if they post .......

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Ah , Good , they worked !

Howd ya like the "before and after" tranny pic ? I of course did do both sides , but I wanted to do a shot where ya could see just how dramatic the look improved with 15 minutes of cleaning on one side using a really soft rotary wire brush in an electric drill . Messy job , but well worth it .

Here's a few more ........

The new engine mounts , the front end work I did while I was doing the mounts (yea , I took the springs out , these old fingers just wernt gonna bend enough for me to get the nutz and washers in place without the access provibed by removing the springs) and the kit of new gaskets for the engine (and yes , there ARE 2 head gaskets , and two of all the others , theyre just stacked on top of each other in the pic.)

BTW , do you guys do "build logs" , and if so , is this an Ok place for one ?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Very nice! I took my tranny out a month ago and cleaned it up like you did. Amazing the amount of dirt and oil on them. Although you did a better job at cleaning the trans up then me as I was rushing a bit. Good job though on getting that engine all cleaned up and back in shape!!

Yes you can make a build log. I always like seeing what people are doing to there V6 thirdgen!

I see you've been here since the winter time but..Welcome aboard!!

Gumby

painted my trans with neon green engine paint when it was out. just so people would ask why

project89

iTrader: (1)

nice job, since u have the engine out and are doing all the gaskets, id recomend doing a cam and timming chain swap while u are in there

the timing chain just cause it has 80k on it

and the cam since it will be very easy to do since the motor is basically apart
a 252 grind will idle like stock and give some very good low to midrange power
a 260 cam will give excellent mid range power with a nice boost on the top end ( tiny tiny bit of idle lope)

either cam can be had from delta cams for about 110$ shipped with brand new lifters, either would be well worth the investment

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Yes Sir , I've already got the new timing chain & gears , and I've been giving strong consideration to the Cam and Lifters that project89 mentioned as well ..... The only slight hesitation is that there was absolutly no lifter tick in the engine before I disassembled it , and the cam lobes and lifter bottoms look great . Every lifter lifted right out without any binding from "mushrooming" at the bottom , and of course I kept track of which lifter was in which hole ( same for the pushrods , too) .... Ya see , this thing truly ran great , it had satisfactory power , no odditys of running , and drove 100% ... It's just that due to the fact that it was stored in a hot garage it's whole life ( In Florida) , every single gasket and seal leaked . How bad were the leaks ? , , Well , In a 30 mile drive , we lost 1/3 of a gallon of antifreeze , 3/4 of a quart of engine oil , and almost a full quart of Tranny fluid . The tranny was leaking at the front seal a bit , the rear seal a bit more , and the pan gasket like crazy ! .... Even the dipstic tube , as well as the TPS cable , were in on the act , and we had some decent weepage from the shift shaft seal as well .... Any way , Here's a shot of the new rear seal in place , and also of the clip that was missing from the servo cover , , Kinda scary to wonder what was holding the cover on , before I bought the replacement clip .

Jumpin WAY ahead of myself , I've already made the "pre oiler" out of a junk distributor , a ritual I do any time I take this far into an engine . This engine will have oil pumped through every passage before the crank is ever allowed to turn , and hopefully this will make for a happy engine on first start up ....

Stay Tuned

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Well , there I was , , thought I was finished with the tranny in that I had cleaned it , replaced the pump to converter seal , the tailshaft seals , the shift shaft and TPS cable seals too , and I thought I was all set . Nope . When I tilted the tranny in a certain way I found the leak I had been looking for in it , and it is the pump to case O ring .... So , I went and using internet provided instructions , removed the pump . All in all not the horror show I was expecting , and I'm happy to report that I didn't break anything getting it apart . (yes , I did remove the TCC solenoid , its just back in position to not strain the wires by letting it hang)

So , while I wait for the parts to arrive for the pump O ring job , I'll get onto beginning to clean the block .