Timmie

Ok,
the rebuild of my v6 is coming to an end, but I still have a couple of issues.
one of them is knock.

first the engine.
the engine got rebuilt.
it looks like it was a 3.4 block with a 3.1 intake on it (hooray for me)
the engine got a complete comp cams kit.
a 260 cam + lifter + timing chain. all installed nicely.
heads themself where shaved 0.5mm
new spark plugs
rebuild distributor,
new balancer,
pacesetter headers. ( what a shitty brand of headers, the paint just fals off the first time you start up the car )
new gaskets.
fresh oilfilter
fresh oil

we finally got it up and running. and timing is set at around 10 degrees. ( set with the brown wire with black stripe detached )
engine itself is running nicely. when you reatach the brown wire.
and step on the throttle a bit ( you need to break in the cam )
we get knock. Every time I hit the gas I get a knock.

but this is on 10 degrees ( set manually with distributor cap off the distributor and balancer put at 10 degrees )


so I'm actually buffet, do I need to retard timing when you put in a hotter cam or something ?

anyway a movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWZVC...ature=youtu.be

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

What octane gas do you have in it? Do you have any idea what compression ratio you now have. What are the plugs gapped at? And are you positive there isnt anything rattling? Such as noisy valvetrain? As that can set off the KR sensor. Also since you hooked up Via lap top, what are your AFR's when you see spark knock?

Did you already break the cam in? Making sure not to let the Rpms drop below 2k rpms or so for 15 minuets?

Adrenaline1

iTrader: (1)

Id also like to add that pacesetter headers arent crappy because the paint came off of them. They just have paint on them, its not really a protective coating or anything id expect to stay on or do anything useful. If that happened to the coated version itd be a different story.

Timmie

I'm gassing with the engine to break the cam in. and I try not to let it go down.
sadly thx to the stupid headers I have to stop every 2 minutes with the break in since. all that smoke of burning paint coming of my headers.
havent checked of rattling valves. but normally I set it on 1/2 beyond 0 lash. wich should be fine.
I drive on 98 octane ( eurospec ). should be around 93 in your country.

weird thing is.
can a noisy valvetrain really set of the knock sensor?
what else can set the knock sensor off. I mean this would mean that even a loose bolt in the engine or something can set of the knock sensor.




dont know the plug gap, but it are the stock ac delco plugs needed for our engine
dont know compression ratio either.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Oh well you 98 octane is good stuff then.

Yea a noisy drivetrain can cause a knock reading, and also loose items that can set off the same Hz sound as the knock sensor is suppose to pick up. Id look through that well, and check your plugs every now and again. Just to make sure the knock isnt causeing any problems. Also if it is reving without knock with the est(brown timing wire) off then just break the cam in first. Then go back and re-due the timing to make sure, then diognose the knock issue. You dont want to wipe a lobe on that cam out from not breaking it in fully before you let it idle.

I see your datalogging using a lap top. Do you also burn chips or anything like that? I know in my past I had the zif connection loose on my ecu and that caused False Spark Kr.

I set my valve lash at 5/8 of a turn past 0 lash. And Ive had no issues with a nosiy valve train and also it must be ok as its turbocharged also and no bent pushrods as of 500 miles of use.

You can also try to change the spark gap from the stock plug to a tighter gap.. such as .35-.40 Im not sure if it will help as your KR might be false. But better safe then sorry.

Gumby

forget the smoke off the headers, if you mess up the cam break in, your buying a new cam and lifters 500miles down the road plus all the gaskets n fluid to change it.

Timmie

ok, I first break in the cam tomorrow. altough I have to say that it looks like our cams are oil lubed very well

a week ago we tried to fire it up a first time to see if itwould run. but looks like we got the timing 180 degrees off. se we cranked it like 20 time0+ times to no avail.
when we opened to block and I looked at the cam and lifters, not 1 little scratch on both of the. and all very well oiled.
anyway, still am gonna break it in tough.


about the datalogging, I think its nice because you can easily see when you get knock or stuff like that. but I don't burn chips yet.


p.s.
reason I don't mess with reprogramming for now is that I also drive on LPG ( liquid propane buthane mix ) a 105 european octane. ( around 100 octane where you guys live.
problem is its not injected but works like a carburator through a venturi effect. and if I step on the gas it leans out way to much but on the highway its to rich.
Want an LPI system that uses my stock computer for the LPI injectors.
but first need to get it running again on gasoline.

Gumby

ammount of oil is not a factor in cam break in, when a cam breaks in, the two parts eat into each other on a tiny level to get a proper "wear spot" started, and then it last forever. If not, both will wear out extremly fast. in an oil bath or not and fill the engine with bits of metal that makes you have to re-do everything.

Same goes for new rings, they need broke in right, but you focus on cams first in a case of both being new, rings cost less to start over with and you just burn oil or lose compression.

should of triple checked timing to get it super close, and you say a prayer n F everything else, including a small gas leak if no fire is eminet to get it broke in right on the first fire.

Timmie

I understand

what I dont understand.
I don't know on a v8, but on a v6 its impossible that the crankshaft can splash oil on the camshaft

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Heres what I understand from breaking in a cam in my car. You start it up and get the timing so that It will run ok quickly. Rev it up ro 2k and modilate that rpms from 2-3K Rpms for 15-20 minuets. The lifters have a unique wear pattern with the cam. So you need to keep it reved up to make that wear pattern. The oil goes up through the pushrods and trickles down through the drive train back into the oil pan. But the point is just get the cam broken in first. That is very important.

I cant remember what additive I used for the break in but it was some lucas oil zz...somthing. But after the cam was broken in I changed out the oil and the filter also. Then once the new oil was in, I then fine tuned the timing, and took her for a ride.

When I broke my cam in about 5 months ago, I was so worried about that part. Knowing that I didnt want to wipe a lobe out or not wear in the Cam right.

I datalog also and ya its a great thing to use. I see KR count and KR retard but im using a different mask then you are. But when I first added my cam I had to tune the car alot to make up for the loss in vaccum from the cam and also the ported heads I put on. Without the tune the idle was really choppy and so rich it would burn your eyes at idle. Do you have a MAF system or a Speed Density system? MAF is less picky when adding a mild cam, so you coul probly get away without tuning, but for the extra few bucks for a chip burnner or whatever, its totally worth it in my mind. Once I started burning chips Ive never looked back.

Timmie

91 is a map system. altough I also have a maf sensor for the moment that isn't hooked on ATM. ( needed it to bridge the part between the rubber intake pipe and the Y-airfilter box that I got from the 88 camaro.


ok, I put my ignition on 8 degrees and almost got no knocks.
but I did have a lot of valve rattling.
then I ran the engine between 2000 en 3000 rpm for a while. untill the temp hit 232 degrees.
I shut her off.
and again, the pacesetter headers let me down.

after i shut the enine down, I put the contact back on so I can follow engine temp.
and engine temp kept rising with the engine off.
then I heard ths weird sound like there was water leaking on a piece of carton.
so I looked under the car to search for a waterleak somewhere.
christ the whole cartboard underneath my car ( for oil leaks etc ) was on fire.
it was from the burning header paint.
anyway after using my extinguisher ( wich luckely just needed replacement this year ) I opened up the engine and foun that 1 lifter on cilinder 4 was really loose. almost like i never even touched it.
so I reched all the valves on play and gave them a wee bit more tension. like 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn max.
and and I put the valvecovers back on it.
now tomorrow I will forst redo my transmission ( shift kit + filter + oil + kickdown cable )
afterwards I rebuiild the intake back and fuel rail back on the car, and normally I should be all goed to go. again. still need to do a wee bit more cam breaking in tough.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I know what you mean with the MAF as a connection. I used that same set up when my car was in its N/A form with the dual snorkle intake.

232* is really HOT! Be carful does your fan work, the t-stat work, and such that hot man, really you might wana check out a few things about that.

In not saying it wont work but you rasing compression and adding a cam, with a MAP system, you car might run super rich at low RPMs and lean at high Rpms. I know mine did with just a cam and ported heads.

Im glad you got that fire under control!! That could have been a bad situation.

About the valve lash...how did you actually set it? I set the 0 lash with the lifter all the way down on the flat part of the cam and then another 5/8th of a turn, it takes longer but ive never had to re adjust the lifters and I took the heads of 2 times. After I get all the lash set, ill turn the crank over 2 rotations and re-tighten if needed.

Timmie

230 is when the fan kicks in if you didn't reprogram it. 232 is a temp I already was able to get with the stock engine.
the fan cycles on at 230 and off at 212 normally.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Just my opinion, but if you have higher comp. ratio then normal, and such you gonna want a lower t-stat and since you are familiar to datalogging and such a chip wouldnt be hard for you to burn one so that the ecm tells the fan to cycle earlier. I get freaked out if my car gets to 190-200 degrees. I just forgot how high the stock ecm lets the engine get.

Gumby

keeps the temps well under 200 and they run much better. temps over 200 sucks the life out of em.

Timmie

I already got a 180 degree thermostat instead of the 195 degree one.
didnt change anything to the computer yet.
so only time I actually run 200+ degrees is when i'm in stop and go traffic. and since that is at idle, the fan does its job fine.
it doesn't do its job fine when you good when your need to keep your foot between 2000 and 3000 rpm at stand still.
( also installed an extra transmission cooler, I opend up the tranny and installed a shiftkit, but still have some questionns about that one )

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Ahh I see. What I did last year was piggie backed a switch to turn my fan on when ever I wanted. It just overroad the relay on the firewall for the fan. But if I didnt switch it on, it would cycle as normal. Its just a idea, I raced the car so I wanted to run the fan constantly when you go into round robbin and have to go down the strip every few minuets and its 90*'s outside.

Im looking into the shift kit also, and a stall converter. Let me know how that shift kit works out for you. Which one did you get, if you dont mind me asking.

Timmie

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...nshiftkit.html

the ATP is actually a transgo senior kit.
kosts around 70 bucks on rockauto.
enjoy.

Timmie

OK, again updates, on 8 degrees pre ignition I got 0 knocks.
yet, tunerpro gives me a lot of blocklearns and )2 sensor readouts that go from very low to very high. ( in the red zone )

also, at 700 rpm I dont have a loop like the cam describes it would have.
cam is a comp cams 260H cam with new cam gears, timing chain and lifters.
heads are milled 0.5mm or 0.02 inch.
paceseeter header, airpump removed. intake slightly polished....
I also have this slight pop in the exhaust when I let go of the gas....
( is this normal ?)


anyone knows what i can do about the blocklearn or what it exactly does ?




also at 1 point while I was reving it while etween 3000 and 4500 rpm, at 1 point I couldnt get my engine over 3000 rpm.
and then at 1 point just when my fan would come up, the engine stalled. and it took a couple of cranks before the engine would run again.
the when it ran again , the engine ran like there never was a problem...

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Ok well heres my 2 cents.

The BLM block learn multiplier is for when your car is in closed loop and that is what adds or takes away fuel to try and get to a pre determined AFR. Very high numbers mean the car is lean and its adding fuel to compinsate. Very low numbers mean that the car is rich and its taking fuel out. The perfect BLM value is 128 but when I tuned my car in the past I got it to be steady from 124-132 which is close enough.

Unless you start to tune the ecm then those numbers will always be funky. From my experience my car needed alot of timing to idle without a lope, but this was before I tuned the ecm. The reason I did this to to lean the idle out and make it run smoother. But once I got into burning chips I did it the right way and tuned the car.

Are the 2 sensor values your talking about the INT and the BLM? If not which ones are you seeing?

My car was super rich at idle and super lean at WOT(high RPM's) before I tuned the ecm. This was with a delta 260 cam and ported heads.

As for the poping sound when you let off the exhaust, thats just the exhaust system making that sound and from my experience its not causing any damage/problems(just sounds bad). What size exhaust do you have and such??

I have no idea about the fan thing, as when I turn mine on manualy at idle it does idle low for a second but never has stalled. Im not sure why that is, just a load on the alt. I guess.

As for the lopey idle, mine loped really good when I first installed it but soon as I started tuning it the big lope went away. I like the sound of a lopey idle too but from what i know about the delta 260 cam, its not suppose to lope that much. I really dont know much about your cam you have or if its that lopey.

Heres a video of my lope after I broke the cam in, listen to the last few seconds and your can really hear the massive lope on the lil V6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj-BaobBxF4

Timmie

the 260H cam is almost the same as that delta cam, the delta cam is a wee bit better. ( yet since i'm over the pond, I need to take full package deals to save some money.
so I went with the comp cams kit. ( cam, gears, chain, lifter, springs )

about the values, I know it was specially BLM that was going into the red zone.
what do you mean with a lot of timing, a lot of advanced timing 12+ degrees or a lot of decreased timing ( 8-)


the car stalling has nothing to do with the fans. but, I saw at 1 point the car was ruining very strange and then al of a sudden it stalled.
cranked it 2 times and car fired up like there never was a problem.

about ECM tuning, can you give me tips or learn me how to do it exactly. ( seems we got the same car to start out from. )
so can you tell me everythng what I need and what to do ?

I think with beginning, how to read your chipcode.
then what you use to burn a new chip etc,....

think i'm gonna learn how to burn them so I can bring the fan up earlyer instead of the stock 230. 210 to 195 should do the trick.

then you learned your ecm new vlues for the fuel injectors, did you also change the fuel injectors or something ?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

If that cam is a little smaller then the delta260 then you really wont see a big lopey idle.

I actaully had to increase timing to get it to idle smooth and not be so freaking rich it would burn my eyes. I had 17* at the dizzy. But you have higher compression so thats probly to much in your case.

BLM in the red zone as in 140+ values? Or 100 values? If its 140 or so thats lean as can be. Look to see what your O2 sensor readings are also if you ever go wide open throttle. With a narrow band o2 sensor and having the car up to temp and driving, you should always see .900 mv + readings of your lean. Having a lean condition can cause spark knock.

If you want look at this thread as im trying to give this guy a few pointers on what to lean about with tuning. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/6...ml#post5236962 Ill get more indepth later. Right now im dealing with spark knock also, but i know the crap is false and its ticking me off that I cant find out what is causing it.

But you already have a good start on tuning since you have the stuff to datalogg and read the cars values on the laptop.

Oh yea about the injector values, I didnt change them when I tuned my car without the turbo. There is a VE table in the BIN file that you can play with, it is your fueling table to add or remove fuel at certaint RPM's and KPA. I personally have some 28lb's in my car now but its turboed. You have 15lb's, if your running the stocker injectors.

Timmie

hmm, thought it was in the 155 range. when I rev.
booting up my "floptop" as we speak to check the 2 records I made.

that .900mv I see a lot yes,
anyway, here is my datalog.
its the 2 latest logs you can find in it.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...1&d=1333916415



oh god, I'm probably running a cammed 3.4 with headers, no cat and a freed up intake ( iroc Y-model ) with stock injectors or something,......

Timmie

btw, fasteddi can you check if my vacuum readings are in scale ?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I either dont have the right ADX im using right now or IIRC you cant see the Inches of vaccum with your set up.

I looked through that log really quick and I can tell your lean at WOT, just because the datalog says rich doesnt mean its rich. A narrowband o2 sensor just looks for 14.7AFR so if its lower it says rich. You could be having a afr of 14.2 and it says rich but really thats lean for WOT. This is why a wideband oxygen sensor is so much better. The way im guessing your afr is by your Mv(milivolt output value) Look at the last time you went WOT in that log and its always in the .800mv range. When I tried to tune my car with a narrowband o2 snsor I was aiming for constant .950Mv readings when @ WOT

Right now im dealing with a bad tq converter I bought and now i have to tear it back out and get a new one. So ive been super busy when I have free time. Ill pm you later today about some info to help you.

Timmie

ok, thx for the quick reply.
going to the market today.
anyway, if you ever need something from me or anything, just ask,....

Timmie

ok update, today we tried running it on the streets and I cant get it passed 70k/h because the car wont go over 2500rpm.
could be that it was knocking, since we only set the timing while the car was on the workbench.


reminds me that the car was actually running lean while it was idling on the workbench, isn't it then even worse while i'm driving.

I really think I'm gonna need bigger injectors or something. 3.4 injectors instead of 3.1.


on the other hands , what I dont get is that you said , when you installed a cam, that at idle you where running really rich.
whilé i install ( almost ) the same cam + exhaust and i'm leaning out.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

That is strange. Are you sure you dont have any vaccum leaks?? Also you say its only revs to 2500rpm? You happend to have a datalogg of when that happens?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Just to give you idea, when my car was in closed loop(engine up to temp) the BLM value was constantly 110 or less, it would burn your eyes sometimes before I tuned it. Also I had ported heads on it as that is definitly going to lower the vaccum at idle.

Timmie

no, forgot to record the damn thing, but ut was weird, I was rolling around at around 35 to max 45mph, and I gradually pushed the throttle down, yet the car didnt go noticably faster, it was very strange...
maybe it has something to do with the tranny?

yet, that doesn't explain why I'm running lean at idle.
could be a vacuum leak , but where? is the question...
I do hear a strange his on the back of the engine,....
and my airvents wont always go to the stance I want.
but al the rest seems to be fine, tomorow I'll check for vacuum leaks.
if I cant find it, I'm still gonna go for bigger injectors'.

Timmie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLSg-...ature=youtu.be

you can hear a bit of hissing just before I do the throttle.
but it could also be the belt...dunno for sure.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Nice car by the way!

I swear I can hear a hissss in that video also. That a big vac leak. To look for the leak spray some carb clearner arround all the gaskets on the upper, middle, lower intake manifolds, the bolt holes and everything(listen for a drop in rpm idle and if you hear one, you found the leak)

Look at the back of the Throttle body, look at the back on the intake manifold at the vac lines, down where the air pump is as there a vac line that goes all the way down there. Just try your best because I can hear that leak.

New injectors will help you, but you HAVE to tune the ecm to compinsate for the larger injectors. Exspecially if there 19-21lbs or bigger as our stockers are 15#.

Also that hissing sounds like when I put my whole motor back together and missed one bolt on the middle intake manifold. I had like 10" of vaccum which is way low, now I have 14" of vac but like I said the ported heads dont help vac at all.

Timmie

thx, the car is almost a unicum in Belgium. but I need to get it fixed asap, since it needs to go for a 100mile drive to the bodyworker.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/memb...s-belgium.html

I think it could be the egr line.
that 1 is very troublesome to connect from time to time.
think im gonna do the carb cleaner trick tomorrow evening.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Wow there are some strict guidelines over there. You said you have to pay a tax per year and its more for a V8?? But man that is a nice car. You did really nice work on that thirdgen!

The Egr line?? Thats a 3.1L isnt it? If so its a electronic one and if you has a leak it would be exhaust.

Timmie

nonono, with EGR I mean the that yellow/copper pipe that goes into the upper manifold.
I also painted it red on my car


I once had a leak and it was there. where the pipe meets the manifold.



about the the rules and taxes, yes, its hard and on the other hand it isn't
yes you can not do enginetuning in anyway, no chiptuning, no hother camshafts or whatever.
but on the other hand, nobody is gonna rip open the block just to see what cam you got.
sice nobody knows those cars, nobody has the software to read these cars etc....

things they CAN see are forbidden ( swaybars,poly bushings ). or you need special papers for them. ( springs, exhaust )

yet again, if you put red swaybars or bushings on them, they notice. put them on in black and a bit dirty, no problem....

project89

iTrader: (1)

sounds like ur egr valve is leaking, this will cause an extreamly lean condition, for now block the port off were the tube connects to the intake and see if it runs any better.

just make sure the egr port on the manifold is really sealed or it wont run right.

if it does run better more then likley the egr valve has a piece of carbon stuck in it that is holding the valve open when it shouldnt be

Timmie

I more think its the 2 bolts holding it to the manifold.
the tap in the manifold aint that gooed anymore. making that EGR pipe bolts trying to pop back out. installing that pipe as really become a hassle on my car.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Ahh didnt knew you ment that part on the ERG pipe. Is there anyway you can get ahold of a vaccume guage that reads inches of Hg? Rent it at a parts store? Im not sure what resources you have over there.
Try your best to get that tube on the manifold well. Once you strip that alluminum manifold out I would think you could just retap it a littler bigger and get bolts to match or get a helicoil and put it into the threads.

Im amazed at there strict laws and rules for cars over there. But as you said no one is going to tear into your motor. Im taking it as long as it visually passes then your ok.

Timmie

well, strict laws, if we want to explain how belgium works. you think we peeps are crazy.
its simple, you need a catalyst on your car from 93.
that means you can remove it on any car prior to it.
you don't need al the emision crap, but you do need to pass emisions.
emisions for my car are checked on the fuel your driving. ( I actually drive on LPG/ a propane-buthane mix ) and they only check for ***.

this also means if you have a 92 firebird that had its first registration in 92 then you dont need a cat.
if its first registration was in 93, you will need a cat.

you can not weld the chassis of a corvette. so if its to rusty you need to put a new chassis underneath it. same goes for pickups. you can weld on camaro's etc.

you can't do engineswaps, unless its aproved by the manufacturer.
meaning that if you want to swap in a LS engine in your bird, GM needs to give you permission with a paper that this swap has happened on xx/xx/xxxx with milage xxxxx in vehicle vin xxxxxxx, with engine xxxxxxxxx
and an autograph of bob lutz or one of his representativs etc.

to keep it short, you need to go to a lot of diffirent offices that nobody ever heard of etc...and nobody actually knows what docs you actually need.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ceg6NQKHd70


our minister of retirement 2 years ago. doesnt matter if you understand just look at his bodylanguage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl2QH...feature=fvwrel
yes hes drunk....in the senate

then we have our minister of inflation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp-jZ...F3DD6909852028
what he says,

"he can count and he will keep counting"
"there is 117 000 0000 that consists of 72 000 000 and 35 000 000. and we al know that 35 + 72 = 117....."

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Wow man, thats alot of rules and guidelines. I never knew that it was like that in other countrys when it comes to cars. Amazing. What reallly blows my mind is the motor swap concept. That you have to ask permission from Gm, Ford, or whoever...

Timmie

today I rebuild the intake. and used liquid loctite gaskets ( a tube )
and redit it al again. and it the engine is already running smootherand the data was looking better, not so much red anymore while running at idle. and the enine idled lower also.
tomorow I will try driving it up and down the street and see what it does.
I hope it doesnt knock or anything.
with a bit of luck my engine knock dissapeared also, making me again able to run 10 degrees instead of 8 preignition.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Might of been false knock. Items that are loose and rattle can simulate KR to the sensor. Datalogg it as id like to check it out. Like to see whats going on with others cars.

Timmie

update, wel it looked like my timing was way off I wasn't even able to rev over 3000 rpm
so much that it even didnt stay running with the esc connector disconnected.
and even reving it went so slow. (lets say I added 1000 rpm every second in park )
so I disconnected the esc wire.
started the car 1 last time.
took the dizzycap of my car.
and put the timing back on 10 degrees preignition.
put dizzy back on.
started the car.
stopped it again.
reconnected the esc connector. and it all looks fine now.
I hope that is all fine now, I saw a lot less red stuff ( except 02 sensor stuff )
and even block learn stay more around the 138 side.


fasteddi.
can you still learn me more about prom chipping.
I also want to let my fan come up at a lower temp instead of 230.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Yes, I will make a decent write up when I get home from work tonight.

No spark knock anymore??? Or Knock retard?

Timmie

well it seems like it, still need to drive it on the street + battery voltage was low.
I think the knock was there because of the already lean idle condition with the vacuum leak, and then revving it. I think it had something to do with that.

I also think that the hissing sound you hear now comes from the new dizzie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3D2s...ature=youtu.be

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Here is the items I use for "chip burning":

Here is the item to actually burn the chips, the software is free and its in your Tunerpro Rt http://www.moates.net/burn2-chip-pro....html?cPath=64

Here is the chips and the adapter package that I use, its so you can easily remove and insert chips. The chips can be burned many(million) times as long as you dont break them or shock them with electricity. This adapter also retains your memcal/ for your lip home mode. http://www.moates.net/gp1-package-gm....html?cPath=64

Thats what you would need to physically burn chips. There is other stuff out there to use but Moates stuff is nice. And I have had absoluty no issues at all. So there is the physical stuff I have.

Ok now first if your serious about tuning your car for WOT(wide open throttle) Id advise a wideband o2 sensor kit. As it saves alot of time when tuning and is very accurate. Here is what kit I have. Very easy to install and works like a charm. It even is connected to my ECM for a wideband and narrowband o2 sensor so I can datalogg the info on Tunerpro. This specific kit also allows much more if your read up on it. Basically will take any major sensor as a input and let you toggle through as read the values for the "said" sensor AS LONG as it is dedicated to the wideband controler only. It also has a accelerometer on it to guess your HP 1/4 mile times and such.
http://14point7.com/SLC-DIY-2.php

On all of this equiptment, its from small companys that make great stuff, so im not sure how they deal with long distance orders so if your at all interested send them a e-mail.

Now if you still want or are intrested to "burn chips". You'll have to get into learning more about tuning in general. Get use to the words and don't be woundering what $88 is or $59 or $8F and a ton of other ones. That $88 is what your mask for your car is. Its the XDF file.
You Bin file is a...Im drawing a blank if yours is a automatic, so I'll assume it is. Your Bin file is a atzy at least thats what I used before since there are a few out there. You already must have the XDF(mask) and the ADX files to be able to datalogg on Tunerpro.

From my own experience you will learn more in a day of tuning then you would just looking stuff up on the internet. Having your hands on the hardware is so much easier. Post questions and people will answer them as I asked alot of repeted dumb questions. I think all beginners do, as I still ask alot of dumb questions. It takes time to learn but is not too bad. I think I've came a long ways personally in tuning. And I'll let your know right now its ADDICTING and any tuner will tell you the same thing.

If you tune, get the idle tune down first, then part throttle tuning, then WOT tuning. That is the way I've done it and the way I was tought by some helpfull people.

Here is some nice links that would help you learn some more if you would decide to tune.

DO NOT be overwhelmed with the numbers and such, just read the information and take in in baby steps.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...ere-begin.html

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...ning-tips.html

Here is one thread I started on here, basic stuff but some helpful info on there: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...les-730-a.html

Look through there and look at gearhead-efi.com as I know there is a ton of information on that site and smart smart ppl.

So overall its a big investment. My turbo install, cam, and everything else was somewhat pricey but really the hard part and somewhat exspencive part was tuning it. If you at all think your going to keep your car for awhile and you already modded it so, tuning will help you and is a great investment if you choose to go that route. When you can see what the car is doing and then go change how it acts it is very fun. Just give the car what it wants and you'll have a engine that will love you

I hope this little write up helps you, and Im sure if I messed it up Streetlethel, Project89, Eaglemark, Rbob, or Sixshooter will help you as there who really helped me.

Timmie

hmmm, gonna look into that soon.
can't afford it ATM since my my company went bankrupt

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I know its a large investment for the car, I just wanted ya to know that there is a ggod amount of $$ in tuning, but like I said if you ever decide to do it...Its worth it. Took me a year to save up the cash to do my turbo build. Cost a little under 800 bucks(u.s$) in total to make that build happend. But it was the best investment that car could of ever had. As now, preformance wise, its a real sports car.

Timmie

turbo aint gonna work over here.
and I think that for 200 bucks i got everything to chiptune.
yet, ATM even that is a lot of money, still need to get payed for march + holidaymoney...and I'm falling back to 380 euros/month instead of 1600....

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

I know you guys cant do the turbo thing over there, thats a bummer. But you got some good mods to your car already, milled heads, cam and such. I know how it feels I went from making 2 grand a month back down to 500 for a long time because of unemployment. Thats why it took me so long to save up money. I dont know how it is over there but the job market is horrible over here in some states.