d00012

I have some questions about improving a 2.8 that I might be able to rebuild. That's if the block is still good. I'm not looking for huge power increase, or to do any fabricating or tuning (just yet). Just something to help the little motor get around a little easier.

I have no money to spend on aftermarket parts, what I do have is a cheap pull-a-part near here to scavenge for parts. So, with that, I have some questions:

1. Will the 3.4 cam (107 ls) work with the computer in my 87 2.8?

2. Will the 3.4 plenum work with the 2.8, and if so, is it any better? What about the intake (lower) manifold?

3. I've read something similar somewhere on here, but can't find it. Will the crank from a 3100 work? If so, is there anything special needed?

4. Are there any 1.6 rockers, that came stock in any car/truck, that will fit? If so, should I use those springs?

5. Is there anything else I should look out for?

6. Would increasing CR require tuning? How much can I go up without tuning?


I have a 3.4 cam (questionnable, dad wants it for my brother's s-10), and 3.4 plenum. Again, I'm not looking to get huge gains. Just minor stuff that I'm hoping can help.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

There's not much difference between the 3.4 cam & 2.8. 3.4 UIM is actually worse than the 2.8's. Lower manifolds are the same. No 1.6 rockers, but you can retrofit roller rockers off late model 3100/3400's with a little grinding (they rub otherwise). You can use a 3.1 crank & pistons in the 2.8, they're basically the same motor other than crank/pistons. You can get away with quite a bit without retuning, but why wouldn't you? Take advantage of what you've done with the motor. Get some headers for it and let it breathe.

d00012

When I have more income, the headers will be the first thing I get, but for now, I'm keeping it as low budget as I can.

UIM?

How about the 3.4 plenum? Being shorter, would it work better? Will it fit in ok, or will I have to make it fit, hehe.

Here's some specs for the different cams I found:

2.8/3.1

duration @ .050 196/203
lift 394/410
109 ls?

3.4

duration @ .050 204/216
lift 427/454
107 ls


Is all that correct?

So yeah, I see how not so different they are.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Upper Intake Manifold.

chevyracingrox

change your head gasket to a slightly thinner one to raise compression. i thought you had a blown head gasket anyway?

d00012

bl85c: Ah, ok. I thought it would have been better. Later model 3100/3400, like a 97-98 Grand Prix SE? They still 1.5, just roller?

chevyracing: Not blown, but a little leak. So I will need a new one anyways. That will get me what, a .2-.4 increase in CR depending on how thin it is? If that?

chevyracingrox

with the headgasket, while you're doing maintenance you could pick up a few ponies, just an idea.
how about a line lock? your V6 is a manual, right? http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f12/3...0-less-861374/

jensen73110

iTrader: (4)

How about the Ranger 2.9 injectors that someone has one here? Seems to really like them enough to have almost convinced me. (mine need swapping anyway...)
Also do the "penny mod" on the regulator.
Advancing the timing is free.

chevyracingrox

just make sure ur getting the right injectors, the ones i got were pintle style, and probably 17lb instead of 15, made my camaro run like ****.
jensen has the right idea though.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

He already has .04" head gaskets. Unless he 'strokes' it with a 3.1 crank he won't see any higher compression. All 60* v6's came with 1.5 rockers (well, some 1.52) so you'll have to get aftermarket stuff to get a higher ratio. When you go hunting for F1ZE injectors (ranger injectors) look for disk style 15 lb/hr injectors. I found mine in an '89. There's sevral styles so you might need to do some searching.

d00012

Jensen: Penny mod? I'll look it up. Edit: Well, I looked it up and it doesn't really have anything for the V6 other than possible psi increase of 2-5.

Steve: That line lock is a good idea, especially here in Washington with all our hills. Seattle is a (female dog) to take a manual through. And my fiance will love it.

bl85c: I'll probably wait on getting rockers and just buy some aftermarket ones. How do those Ford injectors work in your Camaro? Tuning I'll probably do later on once I understand it a little more; I've also been reading over some of your posts. Like the '165 swap.



Is there another cam out there that will work in the 2.8?

How much overbore can the block take?

My dad almost has the 2.8 from the s-10 out, so I'll be able to start tearing it apart/cleaning and what not.

I also found a really knowledgable book by Hot Rod magazine that explains every little detail about gaining horsepower and torque. So for the winter I'm going to research and save money, then in summer I'll start the build.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Not true.

'93 to '95 3100 had stamped 1.6:1 ratio rockers that could easily be used on a gen1. Also all gen3 roller rockers are 1.6:1 ratio.

The biggest problek with OEM stamped rockers is that the actual ratio of an individual rocker can vary by quite a bit to the one next to it. I'm sure tolerances were tighter in later years, but is something to keep in mind.

d00012

Six Shooter: Will those rockers fit on the 2.8? Also, what springs would I have to get? I'll be getting all new lifters, pushrods, and springs. Some things I should get new.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Really? I better take a second look at my cam specs before I get this thing ground. That gives me a little more room before I run into the lift limit on the 3.4 block.

F1ZE injectors work great, of all the simple stuff I've done I'd say they made the most immediately noticeable difference. Get some yellow LS7 springs from ben at wot-tech. Good price for beehive spring.

d00012

bl85c: They come with 12 springs, right? Or is that the price for just 2? What benefit does the F1ZE injectors have over ours?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Yep, 12. Response is the biggest advantage, atomization (with disk type) is second. Have you looked at the ditch your stock injectors thread?

d00012

No, I have not. I'll look it up now.

MyMaro89RS

hey guys great thread. I've really learned a lot about these V-6 engines. I also have a third gen but that's not what interests me here as i have a V-8 in that. I am starting to race compact front wheel drive cars and the 2 I am building are 1) 89 Beretta 2.8L No running issues but would like to add power. 2) 92 Grand Prix 3.1 Has rod Knock. I have a 94 3100 but i am not entirely sure what will swap here. I was wondering what differences there are from year to year of these engines and if the 3100 and the 3.1L would swap out at least short blocks, heads Lower intake, obviously the upper intake is different. also if there are any differences between FWD and RWD with these engines.

d00012

The heads are the difference, that I know, between RWD and FWD.

I'm sure someone else will chime in, but you might have to make another thread or look on another forum as we are talking about RWD here and non-race application.

I would first look up Fiero parts and wot-tech.com for FWD specific questions/parts.

I hope this helps.

Update: Haven't been able to get anything done lately as the water pump failed and couldn't come off so now it's broken with two studs stuck in there.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You can swap the 3100 in with a trooper trans. Starter's on the opposite side. You could put together a 'hybrid' motor as well using a 3400 block. Go to 60degreev6.com and do a little research. There's a sticky at the top of this forum as well.

d00012

Well, we've decided to take it all the way down to the timing chain. It needs to be replaced badly, so loose I can almost take it off without removing the gears.

A horrible set-back with little cash on hand. At least the studs are out now!

chevyracingrox

the 3.1 camaros had a disk type injector and also didn't have a cold start injector on the fuel rail. I never got mine installed so I can't say but I would assume it's an improvement over the pintle style. the timing chain isn't too bad to fix. Have you looked up a double roller timing chain to replace it?

d00012

I would, but we don't have the money for that right now. Unless you know where to get one for $35?

d00012

.

d00012

Got everything put together, runs perfectly. Feels a little better with the new timing and the crank pulley properly tightened.

The only problem I'm having now is the computer is reading hot and turning the fan on, but it's not hot, I can touch the water pump (after 5 minutes of idle/2 minutes test drive).

Did the CTS go bad? It turns on after a minute of driving.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Check to make sure your CTS wiring isn't grounding out somewhere, such as on the exhaust or pinched between a nut/bolt and a mounting surface. Use a DMM and check the resistance between the yellow wire and ground, with the sensor disconnected. Other than that, I would opt for a new sensor.

d00012

Thanks for the help. My dad actually figured it out and said it was some kind of...vapor lock?

I wasn't sure if the resistance was low (?) and reading hot too early. Anywho, took it for a good long test drive, and it felt much better.

Idles better, stays cooler, doesn't vibrate, and sounds better (timing was off before).


Off to find a 3.4...the 2.8 I was going to get turned out to have too many miles...bleh.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I know that when the sensor is disconnected, the ECM sees a temp around -130*F, and will make black smoke from all of the fuel in the mix.

Your "vapor lock" was air in the cooling system... Next time you fill her up, do as I now do and fill the engine through the opening for the CTS. I hated waiting for the air bubble to subside after the thermostat opened and closed a few times, so I just got rid of it all together. You have to fill it really slowly, though... It's a small hole.

d00012

UPDATE

My fuel pump died soon after the timing chain was replaced. Been grounded for two months. Finally got it back together last weekend. My dad is NOT using the 3.4 and is giving it to me. Woohoo! That makes my life muuuuch easier. I could also do a 3x00 head swap easier as the 3.4 has the crank trigger.

But right now, I'm working on getting a job with a local Police Department here, and trying to get my Firebird running.

d00012

UPDATE: I got my Firebird running almost perfectly. Camaro is on hold as all my attention is on my 'Bird. The Camaro will probably just get a few upgrades and that's about all...all the money and power goes to the Firebird!

Here's a video link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25961017@N05/4512843446/

Quick question, what's the best timing for the 2.8? I know 10* is the factory setting, but what is the best?

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

The 3.4 intake is usable... But probably no gain in using it, I just did to be diffrent

d00012

I'm just going to sell it or find some other use for it. Camaro is going to my fiance so I won't be doing anything dramatic to it, as she travels a lot being a photographer. No point in putting a lot into it. I have a running V8 now, I've got the power I need.