87blueracr

figured i would start a thread dealing with trueleo intakes for those of us who have them on order and those who want one. i know i got one on order and so does redraif. both of us are helping out with the finer points of helping them with the fitting.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

please make sure it has a vac port on the back of the intake for the 3.1's. The 2.8 peps can cap it, or use it for something else.

Is the tb bolt pattern the same for 2.8 as 3.1?

RTFC

Jay, The 2.8's have the vacuum port also. I believe it is a 3/8npt if memory serves me correctly. Thtas what runs the brake booster, and a smaller feed running the cruise control and charcoal canister suction.

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

Yes, the TB pattern is the same, though Trueleo will put whatever flange on the intake you want. Redraif's is being set up for a Ford 5.0 style throttle body. I'll be posting details of that conversion soon after we receive the intake.

redraif

The vacuum lines are at the rear for my set up, but they will put what you want where you want! As you all know I'm trying to run all mine a cleanly as possible at the back of the intake. Get rid of all that spider web of hoses running all which a way! going to punch thru the firewall into the cowl area and run the hoses that I have to down under the fenders thru the water channel to the front of the car... ie the orb and charcoal canister!

Dale

iTrader: (12)

dean, the 3.1 has even another port. We have 3

break booster
ac/heat ducting vacume
map

Good deal on the tb mount being the same

RTFC

Thats odd, I have a 3.1 complete upper middle and lower intake manifold and it doesn't have a second port on the back of the plenum. Maybe the later year 3.1 does then. Both the 2.8 & 3.1 plenums I have are identical except for badging on the top. They both have one rear "T" fitting port.

85berlinetta2.8

the tps on some 3.1s are different than my 2.8 as well

AM91Camaro_RS

dean, that's really wierd that the 3.1 upper that you have doesn't have an additional fitting. all of the 3.1 manifolds i have seen have it. like dale said, the additional one goes directly to the map.

all 3.1s have a different tps, as far as i know. on that note, do the 2 tps' operate the same (ie. voltage range)...is the plug the main difference? well, other than the arm vs. rotating cuff.

87blueracr

map? li was told by both the factory and advance auto that we don't have a map. i couldn't find anything in the haynes manual eithor, am91. maybe this is for the 2.8L and not the 3.1L .
rftc, mine has the extra t shaped vacuum port on the back, but it is capped off, i wish that i could get my hands ahold of a camera to show you all what i think you mean, it is on the driver's side right? rear of the plenum?

RTFC

Maybe the one I have is really then from a 2.8. It does not have the 2.8MPFI badging like I have seen on all 2.8's. I got this from DynoDon and I had thought he had told me the motor sitting there was a 3.1 that we took it off of. I would now assume that I am mistaken. I appologise for my bad info. After checking, all 3.1's were in fact SD and not MAF.

Xophertony

so if i no lopnger have cruise control or a charcol canister can i cap the smaller of the two lines coming out of my TB plenum and just run the one to the break booster? can i remove the orb of power?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Picture is worth a 1000 words

AM91Camaro_RS

thanks dale...that shows what we're talking about. i have a 2.8 upper and a 3.1 upper in my garage. if i think about it later, i'll take a pic of the back of both of them.

87blueracr...2.8s don't have a MAP. all 2.8s have a MAF. all 3.1s (as dean stated) use the speed density system...they use a MAP sensor and no MAF.

redraif

Wow that is alot of plugging! I would have simplified that one some!

So the orb of power...did anyone ever deside what it is....a reservior for vacuum/pressure perhaps for ac/defrost/heat vents or for cruise control?

AM91Camaro_RS

its just a vacuum canister. i'd keep it, especially with a cam...

Dale

iTrader: (12)

shannon, if it was my old show truck, I would have and did

One plug is for the vac blub that was under the battery tray that got broke and not replaced YET.

Other is a t I installed for when I need to hook a vac guage.


One of mine goes to map
one to booster
end of that funky black thing goes to inside heat/acducting
the funky black thing plugged off is vac bulb under batt tray

87blueracr

rftc, no appology needed. i learned something, and unfortunately so did you(engine not a 3.1 like you thought) i am sorry to say that some poeple do sh*t like that to us if they think they can get away with it, then again he might have changed the intake so that it would work with your system(i don't remember what year car you got off the top of my head), by the way i am working on getting a camera, but i still won't have pics of the mustang til december when i go back to pennsylvania again to see my parents, so you just gonna have to take my word for that til then.

am91, i knew the 2.8's didn't have a map, but i didn't know the 3.1's did, well guess that i am gonna have to change the intake out before i put the 3.1 in the car so i can build the old motor up the rest of the way!

AM91Camaro_RS

here's a pic of the 2.8 one and my stock, polished 3.1 intake.

RTFC

Ok, makes sense now. The second intake unit I have still has the round casing on the top center of the plenum but just doesn't have any badging on it. I can see the 3.1 has no round csting at all for badging. Obviously now someone has previously removed the 2.8 badge from the one I have.

AM91Camaro_RS

yeah, that's probably right. its just in there with double sided tape if i remember correctly.

87blueracr

well i guess that everyone knows now to how to spot a 2.8L intake! so AM91, how are the throttlebodies going? what about the intake plenum?

87blueracr

well this is a little off the subject, but i found a decent bolt on throttlebody of the 65mm size for the aftermarket intakes. it comes stock on the ford mustang 5.0's the iac thing needs a adapter but other than that, the throttle position sensor wires need spliced to our system. same three wire system same voltage and all, just better tps on the mustangs! i know that noone likes having ford parts on our cars, but it is pretty easy to do and it is the easiest way to put on another throttlebody.

AM91Camaro_RS

you sure that the TPS operates the same? it and the IAC are the 2 biggest issues with adapting a TB from another vehicle. but, if they're the same, that would be easier.

redraif

This is the route we are going. Apartently it has been done often. Joe found quite few threads on it. The Tb manufaturer sells an adapter that allows you to run your stock IAC and the TPS is supossedly very similar b/w ours and the Ford unit.

Will see soon and report back!

87blueracr

going to the junk yard this weekend to pick up one, raif, where did you get that adapter? and how much?

redraif

Joe ordered it have to ask... but Accufab sells one too I believe!

87blueracr

sweeeeeeeeeet.

i will get ahold of them and see how much they want for one!

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

Hers came from Precision Turbo, it uses a TPI style IAC (though I'm pretty sure the V6 one will work, we'll post more details once we have the intake and can mock everything up. We'll just use the Ford style TPS; others have done this before. I have got a 5.0 factory manual at home, so I'll post the wiring info later. Worst case, I would think a slotted GM one would work.
The worst part about this swap is that the throttle linkage winds up on the opposite side, so a custom bracket for the throttle cable and TV Cable will be needed...again, we'll post pics, and supply one to Trueleo to copy for anyone else who wants to do this. Some mods will be needed to the linkage on the side of the TB too, so we'll provide info on that as well.

87blueracr

that is why i am glad that i don't have a show car. it doesn't matter if i got to weld something on to the other side of the manifold to mount the stock throttle cable to, have you guys thought about that? also they said that they thought that the iac worked the same way and they should have the same wires too with the same voltages

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

We thought about that, but we're trying to not only solve the problem on her car, but for others who may want to run the same tb and who don't have access to a welder (I do, but am going for a cleaner look).
I have also heard that the Ford IAC could be made to work, but with this setup its on the bottom and its much larger size could be an issue.

87blueracr

yea i heard about the same thing. i think that my intake is gonna have to go on hold again til i can get a adjustable fuel press regulator and some new 15lb injectors. i am running lean enough to make the manifold glow slightly.

AM91Camaro_RS

with that cam you're planning, 87blue, you better go atleast 19lb injectors! forget the 15s.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I'm on 19lbs as is. Running stock cam. Yep, for the 250'ish horse you plan on running later better have 21lbs or so.

AM91Camaro_RS

dale, you're running 19s? who tuned it for you?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

yes, I'm running 19's. Nobody has tuned it for me. Tad rich at idle. But it helped alot on my upper rpm band.

I've debated on throwing the 17's back it

RBob

iTrader: (1)

For a decent injector upgrade there are some 18.55 #/hr Bosch injectors that are readily available. They are on the FWD 3800 and 3.8 Buicks. Real easy to get off as they are right on top. Four bolts and the rail is pulled.

The Bosch number is 280-150-901. This number is molded onto the side of the top portion of the injector next to the connector. This injector is a direct fit for the Multecs, along with being high impedence.

Should also make some calibration changes to the bin whenever the injector size is changed.

RBob.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

good tip, thanks.

87blueracr

yea but what about a new prom, won't that make me run really rich right now? i need to fix this thing righ now before i melt something, not when i get the engine built.
am91, i wish that you could have seen the manifolds on saturday night after i made 2 passes down the track. they were literally glowing a dull red. i am running really lean. almost to the point that it don't want to run.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

It may be a good idea to get into prom burning now. Once engine modifications get to a certain point it becomes a necessity to re-calibrate the ECM.

As for running lean, is the current 2.8l basically stock? I searched for info on any modifications but didn't find anything on it.

RBob.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Ok, 19's on your close to stock motor will be WAY to much. I have a 3.4 which requires 17's. That 2.8 takes 14/15'lbs.

I do have a set of 8 bosch 16's at home that are un-needed *hint hint*.

Or, do as rob said and start learning the ecm right now. The 2.8 system is easier to modify then the 3.1 system from my little understanding of it.

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

I'll reiterate that, the 19s will be too much on even a modded 2.8 (NA). Even on a 3.4 it will run rich without programming.

RTFC

I am running 15# injectors on a "fairly stock" 2.8. I am running 45psi fuel pressure @ idle and 58psi running full throttle and the car is air/fuel ratio gauge is still only reading 2 lights of the 5 rich lights on the gauge. It should be going full rich to the 4th and 5th greens for max power. I need to put in the 17# injectors I have and turn the FP back down close to normal and see what I've got.

By the way, stock FP is 38 @ idle and 43 running full throttle.

edit:

I also shouild state that the prom I have fails the injectors to pulse full capacity at WOT so the Computer full injection is no longer controilling the pulse rate for correctiions to the tailpipe reading. The injectors pulse at maximum flow at WOT.

91greenbird

iTrader: (4)

I got a 3.1 with dynomax cat-back, cai, high flow cat, should i invest on a fuel pressure regulater to get more ponies?? if so what psi at throttle and wot should i boost it too

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Not really. I had that setup a while back, and it was reading about right.

87blueracr

sorry guys puter crashed yesterday, and it took them all day to fix it. now as for the computer stuff, if it aint hardware, i am a idiot. i have no idea how to program or any of that other stuff.

dale, email me on those injectors please.

as for the injectors, i don't have a a/f guage yet, but i know that it is running lean(and i mean really lean)
the mods that i currently have done aren't much,
most of my mods haven't been put on yet, cause i haven't had time or i have been chasing bugs the size of my shoe around the engine. i did manage to get the underdrive crank pulley on, and a little bit better exhaust system on, a tach, and i been replacing the wire loom and vacume hoses and some sensors here and there. i really shouldn't be running lean but i am, i think it is the injectors, and i want to upgrade them a little for better high rpm power

Dale

iTrader: (12)

WHOA. I think I found the motherload chart for injectors.


http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm


Says the 2.8 and 3.1 used same injectors, which GM list two different part numbers for them. But anyway, it says they are 15.2lb injectors.

List about 10 different applications on the 3.4, and not one has a LB ratting.

blue, these are 14lbs I have here, sorry But I got plenty of 3.1 and 3.4l injectors.

redraif

Should be shipped to me by Wed. Hopefully we can get it installed quickly and see what it does for my numbers!

NOTE: We talked them into making a custom special order version for me. The version they will produce for the f-body will have a smaller dia and different shape pipe between the TB and the plenum.

AM91Camaro_RS

yeah...i was gonna ask how big that pipe is for the neck!?!?

kretos

i'm not liking the look of those welds, they might hold but thats some sloppy welding on the neck, unless the pics just really blurry


other then that, thats a pretty nice looking intake, i'm curious to see what gains are made