Christerray

Just wondering, but do you know the horsepower increases individually for the following?

K&N Air Filter

Cold Air Intake

Polished Heads/New Exhaust

New Sparkplugs and wires

New Timing chain

Doward

Heads/Exhaust are all that will really increase power...

But first...

TomP's Major TuneUp!

Christerray

I'm probably pissing people off by asking all these questions, but i'm new to the whole performance upgrades and such. Grew up around trucks and offroading at Paragon.

But, I was talking to a person. He told me this:

hypertech chip, polish headers, full cat back exhust, cold air intake, standard plugs, newer wires wires, msd ignition, port and polish.

And with the above, I can get about 210 horsepower. Is this true?

(He also mentioned the hypertech chip gets about 50 - 150 horsepower. It's a little amazing to believe...so i'm asking you. Is it possible to get THAT much with just a new computer chip from hypertech?)

Thanks guys.

bes217

That guy is on crack. With the 2.8 you will never get that much power without nitrous or a forced induction setup. You probably gained about 5-10 +/- with the mods that you have done. With a chip I would probably add another 10 +/-.

Christerray

Even with polishing the headers, and doing that work, I can't get to 200 hp? Doohhhhh...

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

there is very little chance of reaching 200+ hp with a n/a engine. youre going to have to drop some serious cash to reach that kind of hp. even with a 3.4, its a lot of work. trust me, im working on the 3.4 right now. youre going to have to go w/ forced induction to get above 200 ponies.

Doward

Not necessarily... but 200hp N/A will be a bit on the wild side of things.

If you want 200+hp, 75hp shot of nitrous is your first step.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

i didnt mean it wasnt possible. i just meant it wasnt going to be easy to reach n/a. i probably mistyped. it happens after studying this long for school (and what comes after studying )
but yes it can be done, just depends on how much you are willing and able to spend on the ole girl.

Christerray

What would I have to do, Dr.Dave?

I can save it for a project down the road if I don't feel like going for a 305.

Nixon1

My cat just typed the Escape key for me and deleted everything I just typed...so I'm gonna try this one again now!

50-150 horsepower from a chip?? Muahaha...he must definitely be a diesel truck guy. That's about the only engine you'll see gains like that on is a diesel.

With all the mods he listed, I'd bet a good solid 160 hp at the fly might be possible. I wouldnt expect more than that, considering you've got a base of 135, not taking into account engine and transmission wear/unnoticed slip.

Christerray

i'm scared of nitros...

Nixon1

No reason to fear the juice as long as you're smart about using it. With a good solid ignition system, a tuneup, normal fuel delivery system, and the right temperature range and gap on your spark plugs, there'll be no danger if you hook the system up right. The danger in the spray comes from things like leaning out, detonation, misfiring, etc.

Christerray

Plus, the "juice" runs out fast. It's usually only good for one street race, right?



Oh, and which list were you talking about? The first one, or the one he told me about?

Nixon1

Oh no....nitrous bottles can last some time. Just depends on which you get. (You dont wanna go using it every day either.) The smallest is a Sneaky Pete kit, which might only last a few races cause it goes under the seat.

For the mods list, I was talking about the second one.

Oh and also it's a good idea to retard the timing with nitrous I believe. Something like 1 or 2 degrees for every 50 hp, I dont remember the details anymore....

Christerray

I think this shall be my course of action.

hypertech chip, polish headers, full cat back exhust, cold air intake, standard plugs, newer wires, msd ignition, port and polish, K&N air filter, a lighter hood, find a quicker accelerating transmission, new timing chain.


Anything else, Nixon?

Nixon1

For YOUR list... Here's my highly unofficial estimates based on my experience with my 3.1 & just a lot of guessing too.....

K&N filter- 1 hp as compared to decent paper filter with life left in it. K&N's flow well, basically as well as paper at first, but their trick is that when they get dirt in them, they keep flowing well. Paper doesn't.

CAI- 3-5 horsepower, depending on various factors like intake location, piping material, piping diameter, total bend degrees in the system, etc. All have an effect on performance...

Polished heads + catback exhaust- I'm inclined to say the catback exhaust will give you 7-10 horsepower by itself, so I figure you'll see maybe 12-15 horsepower with the heads....although that might be a bit generous. That number might be better achieved with gasket/port-matching the upper and lower intakes as well.

New plugs/wires-Completely subjective. Depends on the condition of your old ones. But a horsepower increase over perfectly fine stock-type wires? Probably 0 hp. Maybe 1. MAYBE. It might run smoother, but it probably won't have any more power.

Timing chain-Again, depends on the condition of your old one. BUT the chain won't affect peak horsepower so much as it will bottom-end torque. Peak horsepower is achieved at high rpms, where the chain is moving so fast that it's ballooned out on the sides I imagine and where the slack makes no big deal. The difference is in the bottom end, where you mash the gas and the chain flexes. Eats up bottom-end power. If your car is tuned up well and has normal tires, and you mash the gas and can't squeal, chances are you've got chain flex.

Christerray

The old chain had a quite a bit of play in it, that when I idled it would idle at 5000rpm to 20000rpm.

Now, with the new one in place, flatline 10000rpm

Nixon1

Here's my opinion of what you should do, in somewhat of an order.

1)Tuneup
2)Intake (Dont waste your money on buying the system....build one yourself with some ingenuity and PVC pipe and get very close to the same affect for very far from the same price. Autozone has r!ce conicals for $20-$25 that work very well for this purpose.)
3)Exhaust (Dynomax Super Turbo catback, about $159.99 at SummitRacing.com. Get a high flow catalytic converter OR run a pipe through your current one while you're at it.)
4)Underdrive pulleys
5)Ignition (Any extra goodies that aren't included in your tuneup, like the 6al box)

And lastly, the stuff that requires more time and effort, like head work, timing chain swap, etc. It all boils down to what you want to do. If your car is high mileage, you might want to bump the timing chain a few notches up on that list.

By the way...quicker accelerating transmission? Good luck finding one of those. What makes you lose speed through a street transmission (This isn't including those hardcore purpose-built race transmissions) is slippage and slow shifts. You correct those by having the transmission rebuilt with new clutch packs, which they do anyways, and having a shift kit installed. Adds line pressure to reduce clutch pack wear, and also firms all the shifts to again reduce wear and make the car respond with more neck-snap shifts. And as far as the later 3rd gen transmission goes, the 700-R4, GET A TRANSMISSION COOLER. This is imperative or else it'll suffer an early death. If you own a manual, ignore that whole paragraph!

Good *** why am I this awake at 2 am...

Nixon1

Didn't realize you had done the chain already! Rock on.

By the way....idles at 10,000 rpms? What is it, a Honda?

Christerray

Lol, blah. No, it's berlinetta. Same thing

Alright, yeah, I should sleep too.


Thanks for the help, Nixon.

Nixon1

No problem, any time. Didnt mean to hijack the post here. Guess thats what happens when it's 2 am and nobody else is on..... I wanna be sedated!

AGood2.8

lets just say I have more than that done to my little V6 and am lucky if I am pushing 160hp.

Doward

AGood2.8's right... Think of your engine as a big air pump.

First, do a tuneup!! TomP's Major TuneUp is a great start.

Then, look at your air flow. The exhaust is the BIGGEST restriction in the equation. Fix that first (cat back) and maybe headers/Y pipe...

From there, move through the engine. OR - find a 3.4, and rebuild it. Then, just drop it into your car, and you're running 160hp 200lbs/ft torque!

Lee7

you will never get 200hp with an 8.9:1 compression ratio or the stock cam.

I will just make it simple for you and list the things you need to do to make horsepower, and then i will list the things that wont do jack ****.

To make horsepower.

+A TUNE UP.
+PORTED and polished heads. (just polishing wont do crap)
+Increase compression ratio. (8.9:1 is low, try getting it to at least 10.5:1, this can be dont with thinner head gaskets, decking the block, milling the heads or just getting some custom pistons)
+Better camshaft (stock one blows monkey *****, this would honestly be one of the first things i would change)
+Headers (stock ones are the most restrictiver part of the engine, change these ASAP)
+Increase Stroke (get a 3.1/3.4 crankshaft to increase your displacement to 3.1L)
+PORTED intake (the stock intake is pretty good, no need to do this unless you somehow manage to outflow it, which you never will with stock headers and camshaft)
+Cat-back kit, a 2.5" or 3" catback kit will help the engine breath out alot better, but you will notice no gains at all from the catback unless you have headers. The crappy exhuast manifolds is the bottleneck, not the catback)
+Increased fuel pressure (increasing the fuel pressure makes the fuels atomize better, leading to a more powerfull combustion process. Increasing the FP on a stock 350 netted a 47.9hp increase https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/faq/thirdgen.shtml)
+A custom burned chip specifically for your exact engine combination.
+Nitrous, used safely it can be a very easy way to make HP.

Things that dont make Horsepower:
-"Cold Air Induction" (while this CAN net a little bit of HP, ussually it doesnt on this engine, the air filter box is already in a good location where it can get a good supply of fresh cool air)
-K&N Filter, the stock engine cannot even outflow the crappy paper filter, so unless your engine has been heavily modified {read; HEADERS and camshaft} then there should be no good reason to go and blow $50+ on something that wont help)
-Spark Plug wires, Unless you have an MSD box or something similer, the stock wires are 100% fine)
-"Platinum" spark plugs, they dont make more power, they are only made out of platinum so that the high energy spark from something like an MSD box wont fry a hole in the electrode, so if you dont have an MSD box, you dont need them)
-Hypertech or JET chips, they suck, dont get them.

Christerray

Got all that, but how do I increase the fuel pressure?

Lee7

adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Our cars use the same ones as the V8's, you can get them from Holley. You will also need a fuel pressure guage which can be gotten from www.fierostore.com

Christerray

And if I were to just increase the fuel pressure, that would net me 40+ horsepower? Is this dangerous for my engine?

Lee7

there is a limit to at which point the fuel can become most effectively atomized.

And since a 350ci engine uses alot more fuel than a 173ci engine, the gains from the the 350 should be alot more than the gains would be on the 2.8. Plus the 2 extra injectors a V8 has further increases the benefits of higher fuel pressure on a V8.

It would a good estimate to say that you would probably see at least 10hp, maybe 20 if you are lucky and you have clean injectors. (which you probably dont) I dont think anyone has tried this on a V6, so its not 100% certain of how much of an increase it will make.

And no, it should not be dangerous to the engine or the MPG. The computer should be able to keep it from going rich since it has an O2 sensor and all that mumbo jumbo.

Christerray

Will I need bigger injectors?

Lee7

no, infact increasing fuel pressure is a way to make it so you dont need larger injectors. (to a point)

The more fuel pressure, the more fuel they squirt out, but the computer should automatically correct itself and not make them squirt as long.

Nixon1

Not sure if this applies to GM injectors....but Ford injectors, there's a limit to the amount of pressure you want to run. For example, I have 19 lb/hr's that, with around 60 psi of pressure, I could make behave like 24 lb/hr's (which is what I REALLY need for my combo). But if I ran the car consistently like that, it would put a lot of stress on them and cause premature injector failure after so-and-so miles.... Just my 2 cents.

Lee7

yeah, 60 psi is kinda high condsidering the stock is only like 42

i would keep it around 50psi.

camarors8992

just swap it for a v8 then youll get 200 hph

AM91Camaro_RS

A. this post is almost a year old.

B. wow, another person can say to put a v8 in.....

Doward

camarors8992

lol sorry i thought i would bring this post back because i need some ideas for some performance upgrades for me to do to my 3.1

92RSSlowmaro

Heres an idea:

Stick a V8 in there.

TechSmurf

This is the V6 forum, not the 'get a V8' forum. I think I speak for a majority of the V6 members when I say we're relatively sick and tired of hearing that from anyone. And to ressurect a dead thread just to say that? You should be flogged. For cryin' out loud, folks.

Mertin

so im intrested in trying to increase my fuel pressure to try this out .. but will i need new injectors for this? since for all i know mine could be a bit cloged.
whats the worst that can happen if i blow an injector? engine fire?


(and just a note about the post for k&N filters.. even if your not getting it for flow.. the fact that it keeps flowing even when dirty and the fact that you can clean it pays for itsself so why not get one)

camarors8992

somebodys a little up tight

Nixon1

To increase your fuel pressure, all you need is an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. However, cleaning the injectors would be advised... You can run some injector cleaner through out..but that'll do a minimum job. If you can afford some down time...I believe Tom has the contacts..this guy Rich at Cruzin Performance supposedly does an EXCELLENT job at cleaning used fuel injectors if you ship them to him.

Blow an injector? HAHAHA...good luck buddy. You break a fuel injector...it's gonna most likely break somewhere around the pintle..which will cause fuel to flow either in an irregular spray pattern, or unmetered because it can't HOLD pressure anymore. In which case, you'll have some flooding. My old 302 has TWO broken injectors...flooded up til 3,000 rpms until it could burn the fuel, and developed a sudden power spike.


And to camarors9992....better watch out like that, man. That's a moderator you're talking to and he can have your --- banned quicker than you can say Britney Spears is a publicity *****.

What he's saying is true though...a LOT of people come on these boards and simply say "get a V8", as if it's a viable option or realistic solution to ANY problem. I know...I used to own a 91 Camaro RS with the V6. I don't have it anymore, and I DO have a V8 now.....but whenever I heard that, it annoyed me, because getting a V8 was not an option. Try to "think outside the box".......not everybody wants a V8.

br()bert

When i had my 2.8 the biggest diff i felt was a tune up and ripping out the stock air filter housing and replacing it with a cone filter