ReDDragon84

Tranny has been rebuilt, still makes this sound in only when taken out of gear rolling in neutral and when put in gear when clutch is released. New clutch kit and throwout bearing and rebuilt tranny. Any help would be appreciated.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Sounds rather like a U-joint, if it's happening when the car is kinda rolling to a stop. Maybe even just, somebody put a tie-wrap on your drive shaft just to spazzz you. Not that I've ever done that to anybody ever before or anything, not even all that many times... just sayin...

Yeah I'm ruthless. And remorseless and relentless.

ReDDragon84

Makes sound when you are letting clutch out, not moving.

ratfink6923

iTrader: (2)

Can you post a low speed, in gear, clutch pedal released video?

ReDDragon84

This is at low speed in 1st 2nd and 3rd gear.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

What you are saying to describe it makes no sense. It's incoherent unintelligible gibberish.

In the video it sounds like the car is coasting to a stop. If that's not what it's doing then it's not obvious what it IS doing. What IS the car doing at that moment?

So: if it's sitting there, engine idling with the trans in neutral and the clutch out, does it make the noise? (yes/no) If you then push the clutch in does it make the noise? (yes/no) If you then put it in a gear, let's say first, does it make the noise? (yes/no) When you let the clutch out but it isn't all the way out, does it make the noise? (yes/no) When the clutch is out all the way and the car starts to move does it make the noise? (yes/no) If it's moving and you push the clutch in and let the engine idle does it make the noise? (yes/no)

When it makes the noise, is it correlated with engine speed (clutch in & trans in gear), rev the engine it speeds up? (yes/no) Or is it correlated with transmission speed? (yes/no) (clutch out, trans in neutral, rev the engine and hold it, push the clutch in and let off the gas and listen to the transmission coast down) Or is it correlated with road speed? (yes/no)

ReDDragon84

Sitting in neutral no noise, depress clutch put in gear no noise, when i start to relase clutch in first or second noise begins. If i am in gear noise is occurring, if i get out of gear to roll to a stop light, in neutral, noise will slowly fade.
It sounds like a fan blade hitting something, but is 100% tied to something in or around tranny.
No correlation to engine reving in neutral not moving.
To me, directly tied to transmission speed.
New rebuilt tranny, noise still evident. New clutch, pressure plate, throwout, input and output shaft, new syncros.
Any help is appreciated.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Indeed, sounds like it's internal to the transmission then. Probably related to the countergear, esp if it makes the noise in 1, 2, 3, 5, & R, but shuts up in 4th.

I'd be questioning the "rebuild" at this point.

ReDDragon84

Any other ideas. Still there shifts fine, new clutch kit, tanny rebuilt, noise still. Should I jack it up, and put in gear and really pinpoint noise?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Is this with the trans in gear and the clutched depressed, or with the trans in neutral and the clutch out?

With the clutch out (engaged) and the transmission in neutral, there's still A WHOLE BUNCH of stuff inside the trans still spinning, even with the car sitting still. The clutch gear, countergear, and EVERY intermediate gear, are spinning; ONLY the mainshaft is stationary. On the other hand, with the clutch depressed (disengaged) and the trans in ANY gear and the car sitting still, EVERYTHING in the trans is stopped. You HAVE TO tell us which one of these conditions exists.

And ...???

Driving down the road in ANY gear other than 4th, power flow is from the clutch gear, to the countergear, to some intermediate gear, to the mainshaft. Power flow in 4th is DIRECT COUPLED from the clutch gear to the mainshaft, therefore making the bearing between those 2 parts stop rotating and potentially making noise (since they're turning at the same speed) and also bypassing the countergear altogether, which while it's still rotating, isn't carrying power. Note carefully that in ALL gears other than 4th, the countergear is involved in transmitting power. If the noise goes away in 4th but exists in the other gears, then this is THE MOST BASIC method of identifying the source. We still DON'T KNOW if this is the case.

About 99% of the time, the reason the 1st design T-5 fails, is because the case has stretched across the front, thereby allowing the clutch gear and countergear to mis-mesh. When this happens, the gears themselves make noise, and in fact carve a weird groove on every tooth of both gears where the tip of the one gear's tooth isn't at the correct depth between the teeth of the other gear, thus DESTROYING the gears PERMANENTLY; the gears push apart from each other MUCH harder than they should, which adds to the noise; and the bearings, which are straight rollers (in fact, the rear countergear bearing is the same part # as the axle bearings in your 10-bolt rear) dig into the countergear which itself IS the inner race of both of its bearings. Worse still, since the front countergear bearing no longer fits tight in the case, it leeeeeks, and the lack of tightness allows it to spin in the case, further EATING the case. Worst of all, as the misalignment force tending to spread the gears increases, the case stretches MORE, making all the rest get worse even faster. It's a whole circle-the-drain positive-feedback situation, where once it starts, it's self-perpetuating FOREVER and does NOTHING but constantly get worse NO MATTER WHAT ELSE you do.

Like axles, if those surfaces of the countergear are not perfect, then you can "rebuild" the transmission every single day from now til eternity, and twice on Sundays just for good measure, and it will STILL be just as noisy.

Likewise, the tip of the mainshaft fits into a set of uncaged straight rollers in the rear of the clutch gear, and if the crankshaft pilot has ever gone bad, those parts can get destroyed from the excess stress on those rollers of the clutch gear wobbling around because its tip isn't properly controlled by the pilot.

Without seeing those parts or AT LEAST getting a meaningful and accurate description of their condition, there's NO WAY we out here can "guess" whether ANYTHING was actually accomplished by a "rebuild", even if that was done PERFECTLY and COMPLETELY, since those "hard" parts aren't part of a "rebuild". Only "soft" parts like bearings and selective-fit pieces, AT BEST, get replaced during a "rebuild".

Another thing that happens to these transmissions is, when people who don't know how to drive one go to put it in reverse, they push in the clutch and immediately try to go to reverse, which leads to about 3 seconds of loud painful gear grinding. This sheds metal chips into the fluid, turning the fluid from a lubricant into a FAST ACTING ABRASIVE that DESTROYS bearings and their inner races (the shafts themselves). Even if YOU know to put it in a forward (synchronized) gear BEFORE going to (non-synchronized) reverse, some previous owner MIGHT NOT HAVE. In which case the transmission was already pre-destroyed when you got it. What did the fluid look like THE FIRST TIME you changed it right after getting the car? What did your reverse gears look like when it was "rebuilt"? Were their teeth nice and sharp and complete, or were they ground halfway off?

We CANNOT help you if you won't answer the questions you are asked - ALL of them - or if you don't follow instructions. Just coming on here and saying "tranny rebuilt" and "noise" and stuff like that, isn't the least bit useful. Especially when you don't tell us what "rebuilt" actually means; as in, what parts did you/they replace, what did the parts that came out look like (signs of wear, damage, etc.), and so forth. "Rebuilt" is a lovely word but has little to no meaning without such specifics as that.

Note also that if the trans leaks out of the front, then the case is GARBAGE, and the transmission as a whole has NO HOPE as long as it's in that case, because when the front of the case stretches, that bearing hole goes from round to oval, and the bearing no longer holds the countergear in the correct relation to the clutch gear. The teeth of the clutch gear and countergear will continue to DESTROY each other EVEN IF new bearings are installed ("rebuilt"). Again, you can "rebuild" the transmission every single day from now til eternity, and twice on Sundays just for good measure, and it will STILL be just as noisy, and will EAT ITSELF just as hungrily, if the case is bad.



Your transmission is the 1st design, like the upper one in this pic. Ignore the lower one for this discussion. Notice how there's a stain of leaked-out gear lube below the front countergear bearing (shiny round thing about 2" in diameter), clearly showing leeeekage, and how there's a witness mark on that bearing about ½" wide all the way around, because it has fit so loosely in the case for so long that it's been spinning and rubbing against the back of the clutch gear bearing retainer (large round rusty piece). The case in this pic is UTTERLY DESTROYED which is why it wasn't in a car anymore at the time of the photo. If the bearing that CAME OUT OF your transmission is like that, or if there's leakage at that spot, you are wasting your time and money futzing with it, until you get a NEW case (there are VERY FEW "good used" ones in the universe although some such might come from a 6-cyl zero-power car owned driven and exclusively operated by a Mississippi aerobic queen or the like, bless her heart, and parked in a garage 350 days out of the year because she didn't like driving a stick in the first place) and NEW clutch gear, mainshaft, and countergear. Obviously at this point it becomes economically insane to "repair" it because those parts all together likely will cost more than A WHOLE NEW transmission (assuming such a thing even still exists). Just repeating the magic warm fuzzy security-blanket word "rebuilt" doesn't tell us that.

So:

• Is it relatively quiet in 4th butt noisy in all other gears?
• If the car is sitting still with the engine running, the trans in neutral, and the clutch out (engaged), does it make a scratchy grinding noise?
• If it's in the same state, and you push in the clutch and hold it and wait a few seconds, does the noise "coast down" and stop? Does it start back up if the clutch is let out?
• If you step on the clutch then put it in a forward gear, does it go silent and stay that way?
• Does it leeeeek at the front and drip down both the bell housing and the trans case?
• Did the front countergear bearing that CAME OUT after it had a bunch of miles on it, have a witness mark like the one in my pic?
• Did the new one fit tight?
• Has the transmission EVER run dry?
• Have ANY hard parts (gears, shafts, synchro sleeves, etc.) EVER been replaced? If so, which? To what effect? Did the noise diminish?
• What did the reverse gears look like last time the trans was opened up?
• Have the little plastic shifter pads and/or the synchro "keys" and their expander springs ever been replaced? (not part of a "rebuild kit" butt almost always needed anyway, must be purchased separately by someone who knows what they're doing)
• What did the tip of the mainshaft look like where it fit up into the clutch gear?
• What fluid are you using in it? What fluid was in it when you got it? What did that look like? Was there metal in it? Have there ever been metal chips in ANY of the fluid throughout all these "rebuild" events?