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I have been thinking about my new project and that nether the 10 bolt or 9 bolt will really be able to handle any kind of punishment. I have considered looking for an F-body specific D44 axle, but I think by the time I find one it will be cost prohibitive. Then I thought, well the Jeep runs a D44 and those are very common to find, if I run a non-torque arm rear suspension like the DSE Quadralink I could build an axle from a Jeep or other vehicle instead of looking for something hard to find. I like the Dana because they have a wide range of gear ratios and one of the reasons I am thinking along this route.
My question for those who may know, is it worth pursuing a build like this with a Jeep D44 center section? I would like to stay on this topic, so please don't try to sell me on an 8.8" or 9" or something else. If I don't go this route, I will probably just buy a complete 12 bolt from Strange with the full float axles and be done with it. I am looking for something different here, but not so much different that if those D44's are not worth the price of admission I will just abandon the idea. I don't know much about the Jeep diffs to know whether they are junk, or they just break because of the big tires that guys wind up putting on and go overlanding and rock climbing.
For the cost of a good Dana 44 (2007+ JK, don't bother with the older Jeep D44) and the DSE Quadralink you can buy a ready to bolt in 12 bolt, 9" or D60 all of which will be stronger than the D44.
Why not start with a truck 10bolt? Basically the same thing and a good aftermarket. You can find them cheaper than most jeep dana44 axles.
I hadn't considered that, but I am not looking for a dirt cheap option. I could just use a second gen 10 bolt with the 8.5", which I already have, and build that for the DSE setup.
I kind of want the D44, but I am not sure on whether the Jeep are junk or they only break because of the large tires.
I hadn't considered that, but I am not looking for a dirt cheap option. I could just use a second gen 10 bolt with the 8.5", which I already have, and build that for the DSE setup.
I kind of want the D44, but I am not sure on whether the Jeep are junk or they only break because of the large tires.
They are decently strong axles for the intended stock application. They break because morons put 37+" tires on them with lockers and get too heavy on the skinny pedal. On the later 2007+ "big pinion" D44's the real trouble is the axle tubes aren't terribly large or strong and with the big tires and lockers they bend like a wet noodle. It's really not an issue with the ring and pinion a lot of the time on those. The "old" D44 is quite a bit weaker in the R&P due to the smaller size, especially once you get into the 5.XX gear ratios hence the 2007+ revision.
If you think you are going to shred a 9 bolt that easily I don't think the D44 is enough of an upgrade.
If you think you are going to shred a 9 bolt that easily I don't think the D44 is enough of an upgrade.
I will be doing mostly road race and autocross with the car, so I don't think that I will blow up a 9 bolt necessarily, but the lack of support and the small axle tubes are more of an issue with that. I want to put full float ends on the housing, so I need a 3" tube.
I am trying for a Firehawk theme, but I think I answered my own dilemma with Phils mention of the 10 bolt. I already have a second gen 8.5" rear, and a Torsen for it and gear sets are readily available plus I think the tubes are the correct size for the Strange float ends. I had planned on putting that axle together for my 70-73 project, but since I got this Formula I think I would rather dump money into it instead of the second gen. I will still build the 71 but I think it'll be a mild build instead and the radical build on the 91.
I have;
69 Suburban
69 C10 pickup
91 Formula
91 GTA
91 TA
92 Firebird - Banana
73 Camaro - putting together to sell back to the guy I bought it from
71 Camaro - replacing the 73
94 Dodge 2500, Cummins is coming out and going into the Suburban
If you think you are going to shred a 9 bolt that easily I don't think the D44 is enough of an upgrade.
FWIW, I broke the pinion on my 9 bolt achieving my 1st pass in the 12's. Since then, my D44 has held up to dozens (perhaps more than a hundred) passes with no issues. With slicks.
I found a used D44 on Craigslist that was formerly used in an SCCA car (that it was used in a real road racing car says something in and of itself). Added a master rebuild kit, replaced every bearing (4 in total) and with the exception of the one part that was off-shore (a bearing race for the large pinion bearing that crumbled into dust) it's been good to go ever since. I think my total investment in the rear axle itself was well under $1500 (USD). While my car isn't a punisher by any means seeing that the best 60' was 1.71 if you can find one cheap enough, I think it's a good bang for the buck. There's documented evidence here that these diffs can take a great deal of abuse.
I had my diff re-rebuilt by a 4 x 4 specialty shop. Never looked back. And yes, the failures largely come from the large diameter off road tires.
Fun fact: There's a listing in the Yukon Gear catalogue for 3rd Camaros and the D44.
FWIW, I broke the pinion on my 9 bolt achieving my 1st pass in the 12's. Since then, my D44 has held up to dozens (perhaps more than a hundred) passes with no issues. With slicks.
I found a used D44 on Craigslist that was formerly used in an SCCA car (that it was used in a real road racing car says something in and of itself). Added a master rebuild kit, replaced every bearing (4 in total) and with the exception of the one part that was off-shore (a bearing race for the large pinion bearing that crumbled into dust) it's been good to go ever since. I think my total investment in the rear axle itself was well under $1500 (USD). While my car isn't a punisher by any means seeing that the best 60' was 1.71 if you can find one cheap enough, I think it's a good bang for the buck. There's documented evidence here that these diffs can take a great deal of abuse.
I had my diff re-rebuilt by a 4 x 4 specialty shop. Never looked back. And yes, the failures largely come from the large diameter off road tires.
Fun fact: There's a listing in the Yukon Gear catalogue for 3rd Camaros and the D44.
Interesting. My experience with the D44 comes solely from the Jeep world where it is seen as marginal at best once you stray off the "stockish" reservation (like how the 10 bolt is regarded here). I've seen enough D44's broken by 190 hp inline 6's (granted most with big tires) that I wouldn't personally go through the trouble of putting one in my car just because of that. Maybe it's just an irrational fear based on completely different circumstances however.
That's what the replacement rear was, the D44 and was sold in the aftermarket for these cars. I also think the D44 in the C4's hold up OK to abuse, certainly better than the D36 in the C4
Interesting. My experience with the D44 comes solely from the Jeep world where it is seen as marginal at best once you stray off the "stockish" reservation (like how the 10 bolt is regarded here). I've seen enough D44's broken by 190 hp inline 6's (granted most with big tires) that I wouldn't personally go through the trouble of putting one in my car just because of that. Maybe it's just an irrational fear based on completely different circumstances however.
I can relate. It wasn't my first choice but it was a pretty fair deal at the time. And as I mentioned, I don't exactly have a monster to try and tame. Just enough to bust a 9 bolt it seems. But I AM looking forward to the new engine and new slicks to go along with the updated transmission and converter. Then I'll really try to break it!
Originally Posted by scooter
That's what the replacement rear was, the D44 and was sold in the aftermarket for these cars. I also think the D44 in the C4's hold up OK to abuse, certainly better than the D36 in the C4
I understand it was an over the counter GM part at first to help satisfy the racers that were shredding the OEM 10 bolts.
Interestingly, the guy I bought the diff from was a Dana employee in Indiana and he brought his home new from the factory. Even laid a copy of the factory engineering drawings on me plus a few extra sets of gears (of which I still have 3 or 4 laying around). Ultimately I ended up getting a set of Yukon Gears (3.73) at the behest of the 4 x 4 shop that did the 2nd rebuild. I couldn't get the Richmond Sportsman gears quiet at around cruise RPM despite two go arounds myself and one by the shop. That little glitch kind of took the shine of the initial purchase but several years later and it's still intact so I won't complain.
Hi pinion is more of a front axle thing, you dont find them in the rear. They were used to help with driveline angle with short front driveshafts, usually the rear shafts had plenty of length.
Hi pinion is more of a front axle thing, you dont find them in the rear. They were used to help with driveline angle with short front driveshafts, usually the rear shafts had plenty of length.
It's common on Jeeps to use a high pinion (usually a D60) in a rear application. For whatever reason I had them on the brain and was conflating that niche use to axle assemblies in general.
Aftermarket does just about anything, I'm talking factory.
Originally Posted by WildCard600
It's common on Jeeps to use a high pinion (usually a D60) in a rear application. For whatever reason I had them on the brain and was conflating that niche use to axle assemblies in general.
11-14-2019, 12:17 PM
