92rs85berlintta

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My car has a really loud whine, it's as loud or louder than a set of noisy timing gears! I haven't driven it but less than a mile on this axle. The tranny is a t56, and I think that is ok. I'm guessing the axle is together wrong, it has a zexel Torsen carrier and when I rock the wheels back and forth on jack stands you can hear a thump, thump like it might not be tight enough. Would this cause the loud whine?? Sounds just like when a manual car goes in reverse too fast.

Any ideas?

sofakingdom

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A little history?

92rs85berlintta

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History= been sitting in my garage for ten years since it was assembled. If memory serves me correct it is a axle from a 89 t/a. Paid 350 for it back in like 03 just to find out it was an open rear. Ordered zexel takeout from slp, used the existing 3:73 that were in the 89 axle when I got it and bought a bearing kit and rear install kit. I don't recall what the backlash or any of that was set too, but I do recall it was a pain to get a good wear pattern and numbers that would work. So I'm not sure if it would be a backlash issue that would cause this or what. I have never heard anything other than a set of noisy gears make this much noise. I hope it's the axle not the tranny.

92rs85berlintta

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This is the exact same noise. Not mine,but the same exact. So I'm guessing the pinion nut came loose.

supr_fly03

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Yep, I have heard enough rear ends that sound like that, could be several things but if it wasnt set up properly it could have wiped the gears (poor pattern or setup will make them unusable even if they look "okay"), too much pre-load or not enough will wipe the bearings.

I have seen a dana 30 with too much pinion pre-load wipe the bearings out in less than a mile. Also got a used dana 35 built by someone else for a jeep and the pinion nut came loose and the pinion slid all the way back and actually wore into the carrier. Made a noise like that as well.

Pull the cover and look for glitter. When I built my axle I used a crush sleeve eliminator. Makes preload easy once you get the shims right. I have a thread in drivetrain that highlights setting up an axle very well with lots of pictures.

big gear head

How dod you set the pinion bearing preload? Did you check it with a small torque wrench or did you just set it so that it felt all right and let it go at that?

92rs85berlintta

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The preload was set to some amount of inch pounds, I don't recall what it was, it's been so long. I'm going to pop the cover off tonight if I get time. I think the nut must have came loose, there's an awful lot of slop when I clank the driveshaft back and forth. I ordered a new shim kit too, but it's on back order untill 5/5.

I think the wheel hop when backing out of my driveway jarred something loose that might not have been set correct to begin with.

big gear head

Did you get a Yukon shim kit?

supr_fly03

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https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tr...axle-gear.html (10 bolt axle gear install by the numbers (pic heavy))

That is my thread about the gear install, if you follow it along with the advice of others like Big gear head you will have a perfect setup axle.

92rs85berlintta

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So I popped the cover off today and don't see any noticeable damage. Oil was brand new, no broke teeth or shavings. I'm going to run a wear pattern then pull the carrier tomorrow and see what the deal is, the lash is too loose for certain, but there is no resistance or binding when I turn it.

sofakingdom

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Used gears won't give you a meaningful pattern.

I'd suggest, ignoring the pattern altogether. Put a .035" shim under the pinion head bearing, tighten the nut for about 24 in-lbs of preload on the pinion, and set the backlash to .008 - .012".

supr_fly03

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Well I agree that is a down and dirty way to get it in the ball park. It seems as most pinion shims I find are in the .030 - .038 area. A majority of those are certainly close to .035.

I will say that I get good patterns on used gears and have always gotten a good pattern with the exception of a driveside pattern once in a while. THat is why I suggest in my thread to look at the coast pattern and make adjustments based upon that.

Backlash specs are .006-.010 on a 7.5, preload should be 12-15 lbs-in unless you are using new bearings which may be a little higher but 24 seems a bit high. If it has worked for you well experence counts.

When I installed my 3.23s that were done in the thread above I used a crush sleeve, when I put my 4.10s in I used a crush sleeve eliminator and it might have been a little more work to get the preload right but it eliminated the problem of crush sleeves and their failure.

92rs85berlintta

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I rear the build thread you wrote.
Great info guys, Thanks!
Is the resistance measured without the carrier installed? Maybe he means 24 with carrier?

I'm going to cut out of work early today and pull it apart. It seems like a fun project.

How can I identify the gear as being stock of after market? I have no idea what the history is other than it was in the axle when I bought it. I will take a pic of the numbers on it.

supr_fly03

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If they are factory gear there will be a GM stamp on the side of the ring gear and the pinion head. If you take the numbers (tooth count on each gear) and divide them you will find your ratio. I dont recommend checking pre-load with the carrier in, it will give you a false reading.

You could always start with checking the back lash before jerking the carrier and see what it is. Who know maybe someone got the carrier shims backwards since most times I can just make back lash adjustments with the cast shims already in the carrier. If not I have tons of factory cast 10 bolt carrier shims I use to setup rear ends since I hate shim packs, they are too easy to **** up.

If not then as sofakingdom said, you can check what the shim is behind the large pinion bearing. It is a good starting point if you want to start from scratch. Feel free to post up in here with questions. I am sure someone will answer.

92rs85berlintta

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Well I got it apart. The ring gear says "GM 11:41"

The problem appears to be pinion depth is set too deep. I don't have paint to confirm but I applied some white lithium grease to the pinion and spun it and it only leaves residue in the inside of the ring gear toward the carrier.

92rs85berlintta

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Here's a shot, although not the best.


What camaro ten bolts came with 3:73?

big gear head

Probably gears out of an S10. Checking it that way isn't going to tell you anything. You need the correct gear marking compound and a dial indicator with a magnetic base.

92rs85berlintta

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I have a dial indicator and when my shim kit gets here it includes the proper marking compound, but I can already confirm the lash is way too loose and can almost guarantee the pinion is set too deep as well. I will update when I get the proper parts. I decided there wasn't any point messing with it without the kit and marking paint anyway.

The first thing I'm going to do is check the pinion shim and see what size it is.

sofakingdom

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I would not bother with the marking compound. Just put a .035" shim in there, set the backlash, and move on.

You ALREADY KNOW, since you're driving it, what you get by trying to work on the pattern. It doesn't work. Do what DOES work instead.

supr_fly03

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While I agree that .035 is a good starting point, I dont believe it is the only shim to use. The one I pulled off of the factory 83 3.23 gears was .032 and when I was getting a good pattern it was .026 on the 3.42 (96 firebird) gears I put in it from another axle. I also made another pinion depth shim adjustment when I swapped to the 4.10 (S-10). All of those were 7.5 10 bolt GM gear sets.

As far as your gears, as Big gear head said, they came from a blazer/S-10 4wd. They came with 3.73s. 2wd's generally got 3.42s and 4cyl powered s-10s got 4.10 gears which is what I pulled mine from. I got good patterns on all of those gears I used on both the drive and coast side.

I am also certainly not disagreeing with anyone posting in here just speaking from my own experience and voicing my opinon.

big gear head

I've also got several different thickness pinion shims from 7.5 rear ends. The .035 would probably get you close in most cases, but it's not always going to be the correct one to use.

92rs85berlintta

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Well... It had .060 in it. Kit came with .032 and .038. Gonna try ,032

big gear head

.060!!!??? Wow, that's WAY TOO MUCH.

92rs85berlintta

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Yea, that's what I was thinking! Would you start with 32 or 38?

big gear head

Either one would be fine for a starting point. I think I'd start with the .032 myself.

sofakingdom

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L69/5-spd cars came w 3.73.

92rs85berlintta

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Ok , I put it together with no crush sleeve and set it to 12 lbs. I installed the carrier and the lash is loose, but the wear pattern is only on the inside of the ring on both sides. So it looks like I need to go even smaller.

big gear head

Set the backlash before checking the pattern. It's a waste of time to check the pattern if the backlash is not set correctly.

92rs85berlintta

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Well, I have had it out probably 45 times and it looks like there is now way this is going to fit. With the backlash set correctly the gears bind up and only contact the very edge of the teeth. I cannot get a wear pattern to even show up on the gears untill I get all the way out to .080. And then the pattern is only on the drive side of the gear and it a very thing 1/2 inch line, Not proper contact.

I'm starting to think these gears aren't meant for this setup. Or.. They aren't a matched set.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

That very well may be, a quick check is to count the teeth on the pinion gear, should be 11. If there is, it doesn't mean that they are a matched set. If there isn't 11, then you know for sure that something isn't right.

Didn't the 4-banger f-body's also come with 3.73 gears?

RBob.

92rs85berlintta

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Just picked up a real nice set of 4:10 so hopefully that will work. It worked out because I wanted 4:10 anyway

big gear head

Yea, sounds like those gears were trash. Are the 4.10 gears new or used? If they are used did you get to pull them out of the original rear end?

sofakingdom

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^^^ Likely, this ^^^

92rs85berlintta

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Ok. It's back together thanks to all your help.

I went to the local junk yard and scoured ten bolts. I tried to get a bunch of diff covers off, probably about 8 different cars to check the gears and the bolts kept stripping the heads off from being rusty. After striking out I was about to leave and was walking towards the door and decided to make a final pass. I ended up finding a s10 4cyl with 67k. Crawled under and it started to pour. So after getting the cover off and seeing how nice and tight the stock gears were I decided to take the rain and get the gears.

Got em home then took off the open carrier and they looked greatly.

I checked my pinion shim and sure enough .035. I put a new bearing in and swapped ring to my zexel carrier. I proceeded to run the install procedure you guys linked for me.

I had set the lash after only 4 shim attempts it was perfect pattern. Nice and tight and as it should be.

Everything was going as planned untill I made a stupid mistake.

My thrust bushing has always went in hard, so I got out my dead blow and it wouldn't do the trick, then I used the smallest ball peen to tap it in and I missed the bushing and got the outer edge of the ring gear. It chipped the outer corner off about 1mm chip.

At that point I was fed up with this adventure and put it all back together and sealed it up.

I'm kinda disappointed it chipped the prestine ring gear, but now I'm saving for a mosher.
So if this ten bolt expires anytime in the near future I'm just going to order the mosher and be done with it.

When I tested the 4:10 with the chip it sounds great with no noise and great torque. It was a bitter sweet ending to a huge headache.

I thank you all for all your help, I learned a lot and made some mistakes I won't ever make again. Still not sure what the deal was with this old gear set, but the old rings going on the wall of shame.

big gear head

Thrust bushing?

92rs85berlintta

iTrader: (1)

Yea it's a zexel torsen thing, instead of the round pin that retains the axles there is a large square bushing that stops the side thrust.

Notice how the install manual says it fits "tightly" ... That's an understatement, it basically requires a lot of Brut force compared to the pin style. Which consequently is why mine turned out with a chiped gear. Other than that they are a great limited slip for third gen.

http://www.torsen.com/files/Installa...20GM%207.6.pdf

big gear head

That's one differential that I haven't had any experience with. Never had a customer come in with one.