c4mo

iTrader: (3)

1992 camaro ~ 1995 lt1 t56 swap
New clutch
New mc/slave for a 95 camaro.
3rd gen pedals
Bolted all the way to the spacer it will not going into gear running, put the slave on and tighten the nuts to absolute edge of the stud spaced as far back as possible and it will grind but actually go into gear running. Still no reverse though.
I've ordered a cavalier m/c, but I really don't think that's going to totally fix the problem of Ive had to space the slave back to the extreme End to try to get it to work. The fork is loose, but stays on the throwout bearing. I have taken the trans out and everything looks normal, bolts tightened to 22lbs. But maybe my flywheel has been ground too much. Does anyone have thicknesses so I can check? I'm just at a loss of what to do here. Thank you for any help.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Which does it have in it: a pilot bushing, or a bearing?

c4mo

iTrader: (3)

It has a pilot bushing that came with the clutch. Also I'm not
Sure if it matters at this point. But the mc/slave
I bought was Prebleed, I rebleed it And it felt almost the same, it has always had a firm pedal feel.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

When the throwout bering is further back relative to the fork than "stock," the fork begins to release the clutch but hits the pressure plate before completely releasing.

In this case, it's probably not a master / slave ratio issue like the Cav. slave. But go ahead and try it for the time being.

Back the trans. off of the bell. Space it back with 1/8" of washers and re-tighten the bolts. If it's fixed, you need to either machine the mounting surface of the flywheel, mill the underside of the fork tee, or curse the clutch manufacturer for not getting it quite right.

c4mo

iTrader: (3)

Pics

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Wear on the fork looks normal. Nothing else stands out. I'd proceed with post #4.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Did you have the clutch disc oriented correctly?

When you say it grinds going into gear..... does it grind without going into gear? IE does pushing the clutch in make it grind? Or does putting it in gear make it grind?

c4mo

iTrader: (3)

Do you mean have the disc facing as it should? If so yes, the solid wear material on disc was facing the flywheel and the triangle looking disc side faced the pressure plate. The picture is when I first got the clutch and I installed as per the sticker.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Can you describe exactly when it grinds? Does it grind with clutch pedal manipulation or when putting it into gear via the shifter?

That shiny mark on the pressure plate definitely looks like it's been hitting the clutch fork to me, which is classic over-extension.

c4mo

iTrader: (3)

It grinds via the shifter when trying to go into gear. It will go into all gears car not running. Car in neutral it doesn't grind. Also the pedal is vibrating slightly when running. Neutral or trying to put into gear. I agree especially in that spot it looks like the fork is hitting the pressure plate. Just so that I'm understanding correctly, if it overextending and hitting the fork isn't being allowed to pivot enough to disengage the clutch?
Is there a total install height that is in spec for assembly? I have access to a mill, and I understand most people cut an 1/8 off of stand, but I'm worried whether mine needs to be cut that much. I just want to be sure.

c4mo

iTrader: (3)

• Disc thickness is .312
•Pressure plate check with straight edge and •.003 feeler gauge showed it to be warped around circumference of plate, worst toward the inside, if I had to guess .0035. .004 did not fit.
• flywheel with straight edge with .003 feeler didn't fit. Seems to be true.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Yes, the travel of the fork isn't releasing the clutch prior to the fork/pp grind.

New flywheels and PP's can be a bit untrue. Surfacing those to bring them dead flat might fix the problem and it might not. I stand by my suggestion of shimming to determine how much height change would fix the problem, leading to knowing how much to mill off the tee assuming you don't take any height off the flywheel.

cuisinartvette

JMD is your man, had your same issue
Try spacing the bell out that will give you your answer
For some reason the disc is dragging and not disengaging
Is your master bled real real well?

c4mo

iTrader: (3)

I'll take the washer advice and report back. I do believe the master is bled well as we spent about 45 min trying to make sure.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

You bought a pre-bled setup, those things are as fool-proof as they come. I know you went and bled it anyway, but I'd be very hesitant to blame the hydros regardless (At least in the sense that they aren't bled, if you're getting pulses in the pedal at full depression then I say that's the fork hitting the PP)

c4mo

iTrader: (3)

.124 of flat washers hasn't fixed it. It sort of helped I think, or thats just me wanting to feel somewhat accomplished after all that work. It's the same situation with the slaved spaced back too. So do I try more washers?

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Spacing the slave doesnt change anything because the hydraulic fluid just pushes the plunger out farther and the pedal stays in the same spot. It's like brakes, as you wear out the pads you dont need to press farther on the pedal to take up the extra slack. It self-adjusts.

c4mo

iTrader: (3)

I made extra certain when I reinstalled clutch that it was 22 ft lbs. I did a star pattern from finger tight on going a 1/2 turn on each bolt until it was torqued to to 22. It seems to bolt up even and they all torqued to final rating at the same time.

When tightening it the fingers seems to stick out and then fold inward to be flat when I was done. After trying it today, I took the slave off and tried push inward on the fork with a Long bar to see if I could release it. I couldn't, so is it possible the disc is possibly warped and causing it stick and not disengage at all?

c4mo

iTrader: (3)

Vortex,
You might be misunderstanding me on the .124 spacers. I did put the washers in-between the bell housing and transmission, just as you recommended and came up with the above result.
After that i tried spacing the slave also, which didn't change anything, because as you said the hydraulics adjust for position change. I still wanted to try it just for the heck of it I suppose.

So with that said should I try spacing it more? It did seem to take some slack out of the fork, and I'm certain the fork is on the throwout bearing, although not as tight as I would like it to be.

c4mo

iTrader: (3)

I took the clutch back to where I purchased it and they put it on their machine to check the pressure plate, they said something was going on with the internal ring on one side, which I saw first hand when they tested it, not releasing. They gave me a new pressure plate and another disc and I reinstalled it.
Now it seems to work fine, with good pedal feel. I didnt grind anything off the t stud, but they did take .030 off the top of the replacement pressure plate. So as of right now, and hopefully for now on its working. Thank you all for advice and help along the way.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I understand you put spacers both places. I have nothing useful to add about spacing out the bellhousing and trans, but I tried the slave cylinder thing to try to make my stock 4th gen hydros work. I already said this before but I think the new pressure plates coming out the last few years hit the clutch fork whereas the earlier ones did not. There was always a pedal feel issue, but only the last 2 or 3 years have you heard all this stuff about clutchforks banging off pressure plates. No one needed cavalier slaves 3+ years ago... and all I can think is that it changed when valeo sent their production overseas (or maybe they dont make them at all anymore).

That's interesting. What machine do they have? Im curious. Do you care to share what brand clutch it is? In theory it really shouldn't matter since ALL the LT1 clutch pressure plates are made by the same company and all the clutch companies just buy those and pair them with their own clutch discs. I think McLeod might be the lone outlier, but Im not sure on that. Im glad you got it figured out, but I bet that was a lot of frustration and work. I would have been cussing up a storm and throwing every tool in the tool box.

c4mo

iTrader: (3)

Vortex,

I'm sure of the name of the machine, but I can somewhat describe the process. It had three fingers that held the pressure plate down and spacers underneath it to mimic the thickness of the disc. It had a hydraulic shaft press from the bottom to raise the pressure plate. It looks very similar to a tire dismounting machine.
The brand was kyclutch close to Louisville, ky. I was extremely frustrated having to take the trans out twice, but in the end learned some things along the way and got the car to work as it should.

c4mo

iTrader: (3)

And you probably know already, but the plate was a valeo like the majority of the others. With their own in house made dual friction disc.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

That's cool you got it worked out. Did they surface .030" off the friction surface of the PP or somewhere else?

c4mo

iTrader: (3)

The back of the pressure plate.