JADIII35

I have a 383 sbc tpi (10.5:1 comp.). About a year ago I toasted the 700R4 which was installed and have slowly been replacing the transmission to a T56 from 1996. I went to try and start the car this weekend nearing the end of my project and the engine doesn’t turn over. HELP! (thoughts, comments, suggestions…)

The engine ran well last time it was running.

The tires spin freely with the transmission in neutral or in gear with clutch depressed – seems to eliminate transmission or clutch issues.

Starter (new 1996 LTI model type with 11 teeth) works off the car and seems to abruptly engage the flywheel, but will not turn the engine. (I believe I need to shim the starter some, but would think even a tight engagement would turn the engine)

Troubling news is the engine will not turn by hand either from the balancer. I could swear it turned when I installed the new flywheel because I think I needed someone to hold the engine while I torque the flywheel bolts.

Thanks in advance,
Jim

P.S. I apologize if this should have been in the “Tech / General Engine” section.

pearl_iroc

did you re wire the neutral safety switch, near the old auto shifter (thick yellow and black wire I think) to the clutch pedal switch or you could tie them together

JADIII35

Yes, I wired the two thick wires together to test the install. The starter works un-bolted from the engine, but powered from the system. Bolted up to the block, the starter seem to attempt to try and crank the engine by sending out the gear to the flywheel, but no turn-over.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

engine wont turned by hand thats wierd did you check engine oil and other engine related issues like igntion that might be associated since engine been sitting for a year hopfully your engine didnt siezed up i guess spraying some wd40 into spark plug holes might help idk this is a tough one since trans and wiring is good and your double check it did you properly stored awy the engine ? do you use a breaker bar to turn engine or small wrench

JADIII35

i actually replaced the oil about a month ago. The old oil seemed ok - no sign of coolant. I would think if the starter works via the elctrical system, the engine wold crnk even if the ignition was messed. My fear is why it won't turn over. I thought I was appling a good amount of pressure manually with a breaker-bar to the balancer, but didn't want to break the bolt. My next line of attack is to shime the starter and seem if anythin different happens - although I am not holding my breath. Then it will be removing plugs - which are also new - and try to turn the engine over without any compression.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

yea but your engine didnt crank over by hand when you said you it use to thats scary thought how you get it up i here with t56 swap some people have to shime the starter others dont doesnt hurt to try lol

is your battery fully charged lol sumtimes its the little things you miss trust me im guilty many times lol

but yea this a head scratcher

5spd-iroc

i would pull all the plugs and try to get it to spin by hand, it will save you alot of time in the long run, if it doesnt spin without plugs in by hand you have bigger issues

JADIII35

Yeah, I know, not cranking by hand has be a bit freaked out. So I am saying a little prayer and hoping for the best.

Tires spin freely with the transmission in neutral or in gear with clutch depressed – seems to eliminate transmission or clutch issues right?

If I remove the plugs, should I spray some WD40 or PB blaster inside to free something up? The engine hasn't been fired in a year, but ran fine when I last shut is down.

Any other thoughts, or are we talking tear-off of the intake and heads?

Thanks guys!

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

try with out spark plugs then if it doesnt spin then try wd40 when storing engine you spray alittle then put spark plugs back in and change oil thats what i did when storing my car when deployed to iraq doesnt hurt it keeps it lubircated so it wont sieze

5spd-iroc

yeah its worth a shot, hopefully no coolant runs out when you pull the plugs
i would do the plugs first and if still no go your probly gonna have to pull the heads to see whats going on

Ruckusz28

iTrader: (3)

Just when you were ready to go for a ride and get it all buttoned up. Best of luck!

chevelle600

iTrader: (9)

Pull the plugs and put some marvels mystery oil in the cylinders. Let it sit for a day or two. Dont reinstall the plugs. Have someone push you back to a decent roll speed and try to pop it in 3rd gear. Should free up the engine.

iansane

iTrader: (1)

383? What flywheel/clutch are you using?

JADIII35

Well tried adding shims to the starter and still a no-go. Got as far as pulling the 1,3,5,7 plugs tonight and that didn’t allow me to turn the engine over either. So I spray in some WD40 and will get to the passenger side today… but don’t look forward to the lovely emissions and HVAC stuff and the SLP headers. Hopefully some juice in the rest of the plugs will free up stuck rings.

Engine is a one-piece rear main with new oem LT1 flywheel and a Super Street Pro McLeod clutch kit (new).

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

eehh hopefully emmision stuff always suck lol

JADIII35

Okay, so I haven't gotten to the passanger side spark plugs yet so no new to report on that. I tried turning the engine over again by hand yesterday - after letting WD40 soak the drivers side pistons for a day and still no movement. (transmission was in neutral)

Is there any way this could be transmission related?

I verified the new flywheel I put on was the same diameter and tooth count as the flexplate that came off. The input shaft spun freely prior to installation. Note, I did pull the tail section of do to finding the transmission leaking, but it seems to go back together okay. The transmission shifts into every gear, but does need the clutch pressed usually - especially for 1, 2, 5, 6. In neutral the tries and draveshaft spin freely. In gear the tires and driveshaft do not spin until the clutch is pressed.

I just find it hard to believ the engine is the issue.

Thanks guys!

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

the only other option is to take trans off and trouble shoot that way on engine and trans seperate

but it sounds like a siezed engine from long storage due to humidit winter etc so many possibilitys

remove all accesory belts and push rods to minimize any type of force to crank engine with breaker bar to try to free up engine because the engine should turn be hand

it sucks but need to start taking stuff apart to start pinpointing the issue it sucks but has to be done

it might be hard to believe but it could be a real possibility

camarito

i bet you the bolts on the flywheel to crank are too long and seat against the block...lol

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Thats physically impossible.

Sounds like the engine is broken, the transmission and clutch are definetly NOT the issue.

camarito

no it's not, i did it, someone sold me the wrong bolts (mine is auto dough) and they went all the way against the block, i was able to torque them fine but no way i could turn the engine

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

I don't know if that's a good thing to say or what

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Yes, it is, he has a 1 piece RMS, the crank bolt holes dont go all the way through. Just because you screwed up and did it to your hooptie doesnt mean this guy could have.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

I'm still wrapping my mind around how can he could do that
and he says he has a Automatic which is even more confusing lol

Some auto part stores have wrong size bolts and parts if you search autozone they give you the wrong Pressure pate bolts

Bolts that autozone recommend look like the ones below


The correct one for lt1 style pressure plate should look like this


Big difference

camarito

well thats what happens when you trust the parts store guy, i had to cut the bolts about 1/4 inch cause i didnt wanted to go exchange them, lt1 has a different crank then, my block is a 1978 and the flexplate is for an auto it's pretty tight in there it doesn't take much to hit the block, but i caught it on time

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

His block isnt an LT1, the difference I was referring to started in 1986.

Details, pay attention to the details.

JADIII35

Well guys, problem solved! After pulling plugs 1-7 and staring at the number 8 angled head plug and boot sitting precariously close to the SLP header, I was like it can’t be the engine… what else could it be? Well I decided to pull the clutch slave cylinder and peer inside of the bell housing and subsequently showered in red paint aluminum chips. So I was like hum, not a good sign.

Anyway, the top two transmission to bell housing bolts protrude into the bell housing case and were blocks to the turning of the clutch plate. Removed those two bolts and replaced with shorter ones and problem solved.

All the transmission to bell housing bolts appear to be the same length. So I am not sure if the issue stems from the seller providing the incorrect bolts to me, or if the aftermarket McLeod clutch plate is thicker than the OEM. FYI the McLeod clutch plates have cooling fins or rib-like bracing on the backside which the two bolts got hung-up on.

Thanks for your support and suggestions/comments.

Jim

Ruckusz28

iTrader: (3)

Glad you got it figured out and it wasn't anything major! PHEW!

camarito

i was the closest one after all, bolts too long...lol
glad you fixed it, now got out there and let it ripp like you are really pissed off...jk, be safe

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

Glad to hear quick question did you hear your starter try to start engine ? Or nothing happen

JADIII35

Hey Zach,

Well since I assumed everything would be fine when I first tried to start it, I didn't have an ear for the starter. It would appear I got about a 1/2 crank ripping through a few of the ribs prior o jamming. To me I just heard a bang... obviously when the pressure plate got lodged.

Anyway, she purs nice now. Just a few other issues to take care of before I'm out on the road.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

just for refrenence so people can buy the right bolts or verify that they do have the right bolts in same issue what where the length of bolts
i believe there 40mm in length i could be wrong i can pull one of mines out and measure this weekend just for general info and take pics could be helpful in future reference as auto stores and ebay seem to sell the wrong bolts most of the time lol

JADIII35

Yes, the bolts needed to be 40mm length. I had 50mm in there. So if 40mm is standard, then I guess the issue was the length and not the plressure plate.