88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

so i came to the conclusion that i want to do a t56 swap in my gta... Tired of the 700r4 and i want my car to have the sporty feel to it considering that i dont race i want to shift gears now : ).... so my question is with a FIRST TPI and a gm hotcam what gears would be good with the t56???? 3.42, 3.73, 4.11... also what things should i get first for my swap

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

also i was wondering could i use my stock speedo or do i have to buy a aftermarket unit.... doesnt a brand called dakota converts the signal to where i could use my stock unit... ima start buying the pieces slowly until i have everything i need for the swap... so i need to know what all to get... i would like to get all new things because im not rushing this swap at all...

Horn0816

This is helping me a lot with picking which gear I want. And you can compare your T-5 to your T-56. Check the "Graph it" box on both. I was excited when I found out I'm not going to loose all my "go" feeling anymore when shifting into 5th.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

so im going to start collecting parts for this... i was thinking maybe getting the pedals first and just slowly gather the parts together for this...

Fabricated Crossmember
T56 Bellhousing
T56 Shifter
T56 Flywheel for 1 Piece Rear Mainseal Crank
or Centerforce 2 Piece Rear Mainseal Flywheel - CTF-700107 T56 Clutch Disc
T56 Clutch Pressure Plate
T56 Sealed Master/Slave Cylinder
T56 Tranny to Bellhousing Bolts
T56 Pressure Plate to Flywheel Bolts
Shifter Bolts
Transmission Tunnel Heat Boot/Bellows
Bellhousing to Engine Block Bolts

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

If you have a 1 piece RMS motor now you just need an LT1 flywheel/clutch setup. When you get the tranny just make sure you get the bellhousing with it. They can be bought seperatly but the bell housing is pretty expensive.

Pressure plate bolts can be had at the hardware store. Just get 2" grade 8 3/8x16 bolts and they work fine. Mcloed makes them but they are $60.

Bell housing to block bolts are the same as you 700r4 bolts you can reuse them.

Factory 4th gen cars 94-97 had 3:42 gears. 93 had 3:23 gears and had a different gear ratio T56. You want to get a 94-97 T56 as they are stronger. If you end up with a 93 unit make sure it is an M29 box and not an M28. The M28 has a super low first gear as those cars had like a 2:73 rear gear.

For you car I would think with a 94-97 tranny to get at least a 3:73 rear gear.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

thank you.... i have some more questions.... first what clutch would you recommend for me.... i dont drag race but i heard that the stock clutch sux....

can i just buy a light weight flywheel for a 95 trans am as a reference...

also is the stock shifter from a 94-97 t56 good enough..... what all did you need to swap over.... im a noob when it comes with this sorta swap and i would like to slowly start collecting things...

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

As I am gathering parts now, think I might have scored on the tranny, I have done a tone of searching about good rear gears. I am choosing 3.42 for good performance and better highway and fuel milage. I would think for a performance point of view that 3.73 gears would be better and still be good on highway with the 94-97 sixth gear OD ratio. For even better performance I would think about 4.11 rear gears but it will obviously hurt the highway a little. From my reading the general concensus seems to be 3.42 is the lowest numerical gear that would be approprate.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

well i dont have to worry about that.... i already have a m6 rear end out of a 00 trans am i believe... its a 3.42 rear end. but i know with this t56 swap the stock ls1 rear is on borrowed time... i plan on getting a moser 9 inch in the future but i want to do the tranny first because its cheaper and i can slowly get parts until im ready to spend a weekend on converting it...

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

also i know now to get the lt4 cluch pressure plate and the mcleod clutch disk if you have any decentlu built 355... so i will be getting those soon

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

also i have been reading this thread

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...-overview.html

it has given me a much clearer picture of what i need to get.... makes sense... i am happy i can reuse my bmr torque arm for this...

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

There are some light weight flywheel's. I just recently seen an aluminum one for sale. Do not remember the price though. I am not sure yet what is actually available yet for performance clutches. I have heard that most pressure plates are the same but I will not vouch for the validity of that till I do some serious checking first.
I would be curious my self about the shifter but would assume that the factory one is adequate as all the aftermarkets are short throw shifters which are more designed for performance use. One would be nice and would cut the shifting time down so on the gas again sooner. I will be starting with a regular shifter though to get everything together and running right then will decide what I want to do.
As for collecting the things it needs to be decided first if you are looking for a reman. transmission or a takeout. If a take out then you should be able to get the bell housing and possibly some bolts with it. Possibly even a flywheel. I would not presume that the clutch you might get would be any good and would plan on replacing it. It should not hurt to get the pedals with the switches and hydraulics, possibly new, before you find the tranny. I would also get the conversion crossmember. Plan on whatever you will need for the speedometer to work. I know others have made the auto tranny shift plate work but you will probably prefer a 5 speed shift plate and boot. After you know you might be missing the torquearm mount for the tranny but could go to a tunnel mounted setup.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i was wondering what pedals should i get... 3rd or 4th gen pedals.... i hear that one of them making the clutch action abit sloppy....

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

I just used a stock clutch on mine and it is fine for my output. I have heard the stock clutches actually come with LT4 pressure plates but I am not certain on that. I also used my stock 3rd gen pedals but they require modification to work. here is a link to what I did to mine.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...ml#post5223160

I am using a stock shifter right now and it works fine. It is about the same throw as a stock T5. It is a very easy thing to change so if the tranny came with the stock shifter then I would say use it and if you don't like it it is very simple the swap out.

Here is a pic of mine with stock shifter. It is a little bit further back than stock but overall it looks pretty factory

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

thanks lilski... that manual looks good in there.... so if it was you would you get the mgw short throw shifter... i was just going to get that because i want my shifting to be as fun as possible.. i am going to modify my stock console bezel for the manual swap... its hard finding a good used 5 speed bezel for our cars so i think i can make my factory bezel look just as good and still look factory...

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

I'll say if I wasn't so budget minded in my build I would have bought a short throw shifter.

And I know what you mean about the bezel. Mine is pretty busted up but looks ok from a distance. I might end up modifying an auto bezel myself.

EDIT: I forgot to add that yes get the Dakota Digital box. That is what I used and it works great. I converted my car to an 89 gauge cluster as the stock 85 uses a cable.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i also found out that i can use a t5 tranny torque arm mount from a 84 and up thirdgen for the t56..... this is all good info...... also what gears do you guys think i should use... i was think 3.73 gears with the t56 and the tpi...

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

Just the thread I need for when I do my swap when I am home in June... We both have 88's. Mind if I ask a few questions in this thread in the future? A lot of the questions you asked were ones I was curious about as well.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

nah i dont mind man... the more questions the better..... i want to be fully exposed to questions and answers..... no need of starting another thread when we basically have the same car and year...

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

so as of right now here is my somewhat complete list of things i need to get for this


t5 tranny torque arm mount - ebay or junkyard or thirdgen
shifter **** - http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/kn...1-1-1-1-1.aspx
upper shift boot - already have
lower shift boot - ebay or thirdgen
short throw shifter - http://www.mgwltd.com/camaro_short_throw_shifter.shtml
lt1 flywheel - http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...ier=255700_0_0_
flywheel bolts - http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...23510_154474_0_
4th gen pedals (modding by bruce at hawks thirdgen)
pedal harness - junkyard or thirdgen
mcleoad clutch disk - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MCL-261171/
lt4 clutch pressure plate - http://www.autozone.com/autozone/cat...dName=Duralast
hydraulic clutch - http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results...umber=12559912
back up and vss harness - http://www.ebay.com/itm/250492552476...witem=&vxp=mtr
dakota digital speed sensor - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DAK-SGI-5/
pressure plate bolts 2" grade 8 3/8x16 bolts - parts store
bell housing to block bolts - use stock
t56 crossmember - http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/ca...93-97t-56.aspx

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

let me know guys if im missing anything...

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

I might have a spare T5 torque are mount if you need it. I might not have the whole thing. I might only have the half that bolts to the trans.

That looks like a pretty complete list. Let me just suggest Rock Auto as a good place to get some parts. Sometimes they get you on shipping but sometimes you get some amazing deals.

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

That list seems to cover all but a few dollars for some misc bolts and nuts you might happen to need but nothing special. I commend you on finding that clutch set at Autozone as my searches did not find it. I was looking for the throwout/release bearing. It is included and a very good price. Alone that release bearing is 180.00 there. I will be planning on some paint etc to cover edges of holes and supplies to clean up the transmission and paint anything that might need it.
It seems that the aftermarket short throw shifters have a better centering spring set up. So that would be a better choice over factory.
For more fun driving I think that the 3.73 gears would be much better than 3.42 and still be suitable for highway with reasonable fuel mileage for trips.

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

I didn't know we need the dakota digital speed sensor... can anyone verify this?

88fastgta, when are you doing this swap? It would be sweet if you do it before me so I can ask you questions as I go along. If not, I guess I will figure it out in June.

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

[quote=Bullydawg;5241835]I didn't know we need the dakota digital speed sensor... can anyone verify this?

It has been well documented that the t56 speed inputs are not compatible with the electric speedo from the 3rd gen cars. If you have electric speedo you will need one. If you have cable driven you will need a different type of adapter.
Bullydawg- You are not the only one watching because I am gathering parts now myself but mine will definitely be later. I haven't found a good block to start with for the motor yet.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

[QUOTE=91phoenix;5242032]
Rock auto has an awesome deal on a pre-bled complete Master/Slave setup. Its like $108.

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

I bought a T56 setup with Tranny, Master/Slave cylinder, Pedals, bolts, flywheel, and bell housing... so I am going to use the stock Master/Slave cylinder. As for the flywheel, I am just going to get it resurfaced.

For the clutch I plan to go with a Competition Clutch. They are really affordable and I have heard nothing but good things about them on Ls1tech.

I WILL be doing this swap mid June... I need to get the tranny in so my car can be driven to the Paint shop in July.

Dilys95

I was excited when I found out I'm not going to loose all my "go" feeling anymore when shifting into 5th.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i probably wont have everything until feburary or or march... and probably will not be completed until next summer..... its not high on my to do list right now but i will slowly be gathering parts for it...

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

I got mine picked up Saturday and found that the clutch still has some of the manufacturer's printing on the disc. It was just barely changed. The pressure plate looks like new as well as the flywheel but the throwout/release bearing has a tab broken. I was given driveshaft and bolts and a template for the shifter hole. The shifter is in it and an inner shift boot are there. The bell housing and shift fork and slave cylinder are on it. Most bolts are included.
I have an inspection cover and pedals located that I am trying to get. Then just need the hydraulics (getting new) for a complete setup as I am going to mod my own crossmember.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Not sure if it was mentioned in this thread, but for the SBC/LT1 guys, GM no longer supplies the Clutch/Pressure Plate bolts. If you don't have these, they are $52 on Summit. PN# MCL-1502. The LS1 style bolts are NOT the same.

I just got whammied because i NEED these bolts and can't get them locally, and MUST have them by tomorrow so I just laid down the $52 for the bolts and $35 for shipping. Ugh.

ARP does not make them either.

Some have said you can simply use Grade 8 hardware, but honestly I like my legs too much to risk them for $50 worth of bolts.

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

It is mentioned twice. All you need to do is go to ACE and get some 2" grade 8 3/8x16 bolts and some washers. They work just as good and cost around $8.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

When it comes to my legs, Grade 8 is not enough.

FYI, My engine may see 7k if i screw up a shift. I do not want the clutch flying apart then.

I've seen how easily a clutch can tear up a bell housing. Its not worth the risk.

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

Originals are only grade 5.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

You are missing the point. Its not the grade. The correct bolts have a shoulder that is LARGER than the threads and extends beyond the pressure plate into the flywheel. The pressure plate bolts are a very low torque, like 20ft lbs IIRC. The shoulder is used to take the shear load. I would never trust threads to take the load in shear. Not many people go to this level of detail and I applaud Thirdgen89GTA for doing it correctly. I have those bolts as well and they are correct. See picture below.

Also, 88fastgta, just so you know, with my Camaro the orange aluminum cross bar on the MGW shifter hit my center console e-brake area when in reverse. Nothing a quick hit from the file couldn't take car of though. That shifter is great, by the way. You many not have that issue with the bird center console.

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

The 2" bolts have the exact shoulder. The threads are just a bit longer and thread further into the flywheel. The shoulder fits perfect in the pressure plate with no slop and no threads are in contact with the pressure plate.

dharris89

I'm doing the same swap right now. I parted out a 96 formula to get all the parts I need. As soon as the tranny shop gets the parts bye bye auto. I may ask questions too as I've been book marking threads of a while. Good luck.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Possibly a stupid question here.

Should I use loctite on any of these bolts?

The thought of one backing out on me is terrifying.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

No. "Normal" bolts have several things different than the correct bolts.

1. Shank diameter. Normal bolts have a shank the same size as the threads. The correct bolts have a larger shank than the threads. This is to fit VERY tight in the bore of the pressure plate AND flywheel. A standard 3/8" bolt measures about 0.371" at the shank. The correct bolts measure a full 0.375".

2. Shank neck. Normal bolts feature a neck down in diameter from the shank to the first thread. So even if the shank fits in the pressure plate, it does not fit tight in the fly wheel. The correct bolts have a full diameter shank right down to the first thread.

3. Shank length. Normal bolts almost certainly don't have the correct length shank. The shank NEEDS to go all the way through the pressure plate and into the first 1/8" of the flywheel. The purpose of this is to locate the pressure plate and take the shear loads from the clutch. Shank length should be about 1.15" long. Overall length is about 1.60" The shank should extend past the pressure plate by about 0.08-0.09" beyond the pressure plate.

Even if you don't believe any of the above. Please explain why GM would bother designing a custom fastener when a bolt for Home Depot would work fine? The GM pressure plate bolt is unique. GM doesn't spend money for no reason.

So in review. If you value your car and your body more than $50, just go ahead and order the McLeod bolts.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Yes. Since they are torqued very low I would highly recommend loctite red.

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

I will not argue whether regular grade 8 bolts will or won't work. I had been wondering as stated here about the shoulder on the bolt where it goes to threaded. Standard bolts are different and would think there could be a possibility of some odd stresses by bottoming the bolt. Regular bolts are actually designed not to be bottomed out.
I haven't checked shank length yet but did notice that the head of the original gives more surface area to seat on the pressure plate.
This leads to the statement made above "the GM pressure plate bolt is unique. GM doesn't spend money for no reason".
They obviously had a reason but it could have been an overly cautious approach because of their liability issues. Hense is it truly safe with their safety margins, it may hold fine but not consistantly with their tougher safety margins during testing.
I have the proper bolts for my swap.

LilSki

iTrader: (1)

I see what you mean about the stock bolts but I'm not that worried about it. Many people have used the grade 8 or grade 9 bolts from fastenal without issue. I'm not racing the car and I'm not putting out a ton of power. I've put about 2000 miles on my setup and I recently had it apart as my trans was leaking and I wanted to fix it. I also Inspected the pressure plate bolts along with the pressure plate itself and everything was fine.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Well I expect to see extended high rpm operation doing HPDEs and as such there will be alot more fatigue and heat with a track day like that. 20 minutes at speeds sometimes averaging upto 100mph.

The car needs to be able to do that reliably. And I don't trust normal hardware to handle it.

My heads/cam combo will want to be shifted in the 6500rpm range. I need to know it can handle that repeatedly.

Hello, Michael

How can the pressure plate bolts have a shoulder that's longer than the cover thickness? Once the shoulder hits the threads in the flywheel the bolt will no longer thread in because the shoulder is the same diameter as the threads, unless that shoulder never contacts the threads? I just got some 2" grade 8 flange head bolts from the hardware store. And, I'm pretty sure the factory ones are going to be grade 8 as well. The only stronger bolts I've seen are ultra high strength stainless steel bolts with a tensile strength of 170,000 psi. Grade 8 are 150,000 psi.

Hello, Michael

I looked at my flywheel and the threads do start about 1/8" from the top of the bore, so it does make sense that the shank could fit into the hole. But, I would think if shear was the issue, you'd want the shank to go a little deeper than 1/8" (or less?) into the hole. The pp cover is exerting all its shear force on the shanked end of the bolt, why the flywheel is exerting all of its shear force onto a MOSTLY threaded portion of the bolt and a 1/8" (or less?) section of shank. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Yup the flywheel has a counterbore for the shank to fit into. The shear force is taken up by the cross section of the shank. It really doesn't matter how far the shank is in the flywheel as long as its well supported on the other side by the pressure plate, which it is.

Hello, Michael

LilSki - Is your center console out of a 5-speed car or did you modify an auto? I'm thinking about cutting out the shift indicator section on my auto console.

Also, does anyone know how to deal with the reverse lock out solenoid, back up light switch and neutral safety switch? I'm swapping my T-56 into an auto car, and I don't know what to do with the wiring to all these things.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Search for the thread named "my t56 swap". It's a sticky thread so should be right at the top.

It has pictures and how to wire all of the questions you just asked.

Reverse lights and PN safety switch are easy peazy.

Don't feel like typing it all out on my phone.

Hello, Michael

Cool thanks. I don't blame you.

brdofpry85ta

iTrader: (1)

I am considering the swap also.....I read that someone mentioned the 94-97 LT1 T56...what about the 98-02 LS1 T56.....any reason why......what is the diff. Besides the slave cylinder.....also I am carbed with no computer....is that going to be an issue....

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Slave cylinder, and input shaft is different LT1 to LS1.