S_Johnson

Hey guys, I've got a 700R4 behind my 400SBC (around 450-475FtPounds), and it works fine, seems to be holding up well and all that jazz, kicks down at the right throttle, shifts at the right point (or close enough), but it does not do it FIRM enough. It WILL burn itself out on it's 1-2 shift if it slips right? I mean, it takes 2-3 SECONDS to shift from 1 to 2 under full throttle. I want it to be much firmer, not to mention, I'm installing a ratchet shifter, and I want it to respond to a change in gears much faster, when I put it in second from first I want it to do it quickly, not hesitate and wait until it decides to do the same thing . My question is, do I want a shift kit? or do I really need a valve-body? I eventually want a manual-automatic valve-body like what the street-fighter's have. which brings me to question number 2:

Will a aftermarket valve body be to much for an un-upgraded 700R4? I mean, I just want to know what's going to give me the firmest shifts, without ruining my perfectly good tranny. Thanks in Advance!!!!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

TCI is junk. u need a corvette servo at minimum... maybe a billet servo. this is gona help with clamping forces with all that power your making. the stock one is inadeqate for even stock motors. this will burn up ur cluctch packs quickly causing the need for another rebuild.

mimimum i would do is get a corvette servo and a transgo shift kit, with boost valves.

u make no mention to the stall of your converter or anything else. the servo is what applies the pressure of the fluid to the clutch packs.... corvette servos have more fuild area causing more clamping pressure, billet servos have more than the corvette servo which will give u more clamping pressure than that if your making more HP. shift kits depending on the brand will increase line pressure which will give u firmer shifts... but this is not the best way. boost valves do this but must be calibrated with the valve body. transgo is the best, and it changes the fuilds paths in the valve body to give u more firmer shifts.

talk to dana at probuilt and he will hook u up with what u need. hes the man.

this is everything u would need for the upgrade. vette servo, boost valves, and trangso shift kit.
https://www.700r4l60e.com/store/prod...&cat=52&page=1


im running billet servos, transgo shift kit, boost valves a deep pan, and trans cooler and my thing is a beast. this is behind the engine in my sig which makes what your making in my HSR 383.

also look into a external trans cooler... depending on the stall of ur converter u will prob need one... they are needed on stock trans as well bc heat is #1 thing that kills a trans

STRIKER911

iTrader: (1)

Sorry for intruding but Custom Black U sound like u know the answer to my Question too. My car has the stock l03 and the trans has just a shift kit. Very annoying since it shifts harder (like it should) at lower rpms ,yet like stock when u get on it. Tells me (from what you said) that I need a vette servo. What exactly does a trans go kit do? Does that kit do the same thing that my shift kit does, only better?

I have never done more to a passenger car's tranny then change the filter and with my luck id leave a part from the shift kit that's in it and have two mismatched kits in one trans. I bet just the servo and cooler is all I would need? Thanks.

camaronewbie

I'm no tranny expert by any means, but I went the cheap route and all is great with mine. I had my tranny out for a rebuild - got a good rebuild with very high quality parts done locally - when I got it home I installed (on my own so it was easy to do if I can do it) a simple B&M shift kit (I know, everyone says they are junk). I also installed a set of vette servos or boost valves or whatever they are called that I got off ebay I think (also installed myself with tranny in car), and I have a converter from an S-10 V6 pickup truck I ordered from GMpartsdirect.com (stalls at about 2100 instead of the stock 1300).

After 3 years, this setup still scratches 1-2 on even the easiest throttle I can give (I have to make sure no cops around when I leave a stop), and jerks my neck in all gears changes. And all this from a simple old school 350 carb with mild cam and smog 1970's heads and a 4th gen LS1 3.42 posi rear. Everyone says the B&M kit is crapola, but it was cheap, easy, and I can't imagine wanting any firmer on a street car.

To give you an idea on budget, I spent $500 on the rebuild (a tranny shop guy that did it at home on the side), about $120 on the converter with shipping, I think $60 for the vette servos/boost valves, and about $70 on the B&M kit. So with some hunting, some patience, and some dirty hands - these things can be done on a budget.

Not sure if that helps, but just letting you know what I ended up with and how well it works for me.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

ok let me try to shed some light for both of u on ur questions/decisions.

Striker, first the trans SHOULD NOT shift hard at lower RPMS. this causes unneccessary stress on the drivetrain and is VERY hard on trans/drivetrain parts. when u get on it and the shifts get softer as the RPMs increase that could be a couple things... seems like a pressure issue, and a clamping issue. could be something with the accumulators in the valve body. the servo does NOT act like a shift kit, it will firm up the shift and make it feel more "positive" like less slippage that u can feel with a stock 3rd gen smaller servo but it will not make it a HARDER shift. they are not the same and the shift kit and servo should be used together and matched. this is wat dana does at probuilt... he builds the kits to compliment eachother giving u a softer shift at lower RPMS and then they get alot firmer as u rev up.

think of the transgo as a shift kit plus more... it doesnt just increase line pressure like the B&M one, it actually reroutes the fluid in the trans for better firmer shifts, the kits recalibrate the valve body and fix all the little problems the stock trans has (this is something B&M does not) if u notice the B&M kit is basiaclly a gasket and a bunch of springs, maybe a valve, this just increases line pressure for harder shifts. word of caution is that the transgo shift kit will require more work and more labor than a cheaper B&M kit, u might have to modify the seperator plate but this is all detailed in the really easy to read and understand instructions that DANA provides.

in a nut shell, the transgo is wat u want and need. the transgo shift kit will replace anything that youve already done wit the B&M or other shift kits. your having problems if the shifts get softer as the RPMs increase, i hope its not a pump problem. the soft shift u feel could be the servo not being enough for the power as the RPM increases and this is where a vette servo would help but thats unclear... ur best bet is to call dana and ask him yourself... he will not steer u wrong. Dana's kit is taylored to your vehicle, this means, weight, rear gears, stall converter, engine output and intended driving for that car.

now for camaro newbie, u should read what i posted above but to answer u... there is nothing wrong with a B&M shift kit, i call them junk just like TCI bc they are cheap and they do what they are suppose to do they just arent optimal or the correct way to do it. for example if you could JB weld a broken metal part... or you could weld it. Im sure you could get the JB weld to work but it wouldnt be done correctly and it will not last as long.

Also is this no "pair" of vette servos... there is only one, its the 1-2 servo. this is the upgrade for the firebird/camaro. there is a 4th gear servo but they are the same on all the 700r4s. there is an upgrade Like mine but they are billet. I have the billet 35% larger than vette servo and i have the billet 4th gear servo thats 50% larger than stock for much better clamping. this would be overkill for most of u and my application as well but my trans can handle 700hp without a hicup.

also boost valves are different then servos. servos CLAMP the bands and boost valves increase the line pressure in the trans for harder shifts, more line pressure means more clamping force. i beleive the vettes had the same boost valves as the camaro/firebird. they can be upgraded (there are 2 of them) mega boost valve is like .500" and stock is like .42" or soemthing, this controls line pressure in the DRIVE position only. then u have the low reverse boost valve which can be upgraded to increase line pressure when manually shifting (low reverse boost valve only affects shifts when manually shifting 1-2-3, not when in DRIVE/overdrive) in combination u will have higher line pressures of like 160psi to like 200-250psi, when manually shifting or in D.

the S10 tq conveter is a cheap performance upgrade but is not optimal for a performance car, trucks have a different stall than a car, it will work but not optimal. i got my 2800-2900 stall for 200$ shipped brand new. there are deals all out there.

this jerking of ur neck in all gears is not a good thing... this is HARD on your trans/drivetrain... alot of unwanted stress. I kno bc i had this before i redid my trans. the shifts were so hard it was insane and would get annoying for girls in the pass seat lol. my trans now shifts very nicely under part throttle. its a quick blink of an eye shift and very positive but it doesnt snap my neck back until i get on ittttt! when i rev and shift at like 3000-5500 this thing is brutal.

one thing to remember is firmer is not always better. the point of a GOOD shift kit is to increase performance and not decrease longevity of the trans or weaken it. u want positve shifts that allow quick firm shifts with no slippage. remember the point of a shift kit is to correct the lag between shifts/while shifting that causes too much friction between shifts which leads to burnt/worn our clutches, quicker more positive shifts means u have more power to the ground for a longer period of time... resulting in a faster car.

both of u should look at an external trans cooler... they are NEEDED esp if u have a higher stall than stock. higher stalls create LOTS of heat, heat destroys the trans. dropping trans temps by 20 degrees can increase the trans life by double! the stock trans cooler is inadeqate at best and should be used in conjuction with an aftermarket performance external trans cooler. mine is the B&M 24,000 GVW trans cooler and my trans never gets above 160-170 is the summer in HOT jersey traffic. now in the cold the trans temp needle never even moves (my gauge starts at 140degrees)

hope this helps

STRIKER911

iTrader: (1)

Yes u helped a lot. Thanks so much for the info. I Love it when people take the time to actually inform the ignorant. I am well informed now for sure.

If a trans was rebuilt does the filter and fluid need to be changed after break in? U said something about the pump and that tells me slow flowing filter. The trans was rebuilt 8k miles ago by the previous owner. Only thing I know about the past of this car is whats on the receipts.

How do I find Dana? Is this it? http://www.700r4l60e.com/

S_Johnson

Ok, well, my converter is stock, whatever that is. I like it the way it is, It's not a race car, and I like the street-ability of the stock converter. I'm going to install a tranny cooler at some point anyways (this car will be towing a tent-trailer RV at some point in the not to distant future ). So is that kit you posted the url for everything? Or is there something else I need as well? Also, mine shifts fairly firmly at low rpm as well, but not jerky, just quickly, with no lag time, it simply goes (click) new gear, without lag, or excessive harshness (except when really cold sometimes, then it's pretty snappy ). Is that a sign of something wrong with the pump or whatever? Thanks for all the help! I really appreciate it, thirgen.org has been a HUGE help to me the last year and a half while I've been doing all this!

S_Johnson

also, I forgot to ask, you said the "boost valves" had to be "calibrated" to the shift kit or something like that, is that already done with this kit? In other words, I want something simple, I don't want to mess with it once it's been installed. I don't mind the trouble of the install, as long as that's the end of it . Also, would it be a good idea to use that kit, but also get a billet servo off ebay like this one http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-B...Q5fAccessories instead of the corvette one? And will all of this make it shift more when I want it to? Like when I manual shift from 1-2 will it do it faster? And I still want the valve body so I can get a reverse pattern one and one that is manual in the first three gears, to compliment my ratchet shifter, is that still an option with all this, or is that option closed to me if I do this stuff? Thanks again.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

yep thats him, just give him a call, if he doesnt answer just leave him a msg. give him a day or 2 then call back... hes a busy guy.

no... trans filters are not like engine oil filters... they do not have to be changed but after like every 30-50,000 miles or so. but if your pulling the pan you could. they are cheap and worth it perhaps. check the pan to see if u see anything outa the ordinary... large chunks of clutches or metal etc.

the pump is in the front of the trans, its where the tq converter attaches on the stator... i said pump bc some ppl dont rebuild the pumps... if the pump hasnt been rebuilt it should be... and be upgraded as well... most stock pumps in the early years are 7vain which are poo... should be upgraded to a high flowing 10vein... DANA sells then as well. they are worth it since its the heart of your trans. Low pressure in the higher rpms could cause apply issues and make it seem like a soft shift. this will ultimatly destroy the trans if not taken care of.

you shouldnt need new fluid but check it for smell and color. if its a brown color and smells burnt i would replace it. but check to be sure.

STRIKER911

iTrader: (1)

K thanks a lot.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

if u look at the kit it has the servo, boost valves and shift kit/valve body recalibration kit... this is basically everything u need. this is a transgo kit and Dana modifies them for your application. it replaces ALOT more than just a shift kit. comes with torrigton checkballs, accumulators etc. Again tho get in contact with dana and tell him what you plan to do and what you want.

the billet servos are overkill for most applications... bc of the extra clamping force they provide they will usually cause downshift problems or basically when the servo needs to release. i get a nice knock when my trans downshifts when coasting to a stop at 20mph... its the 3-2 kickdown when im stopping for a light and when the shifter is in Drive. this is kno doubt probably the billet servos having issues letting go lol. but its livable.

this transgo shift kit will allow u to shift manually in 1-2-3 at ANY RPM, but it will also allow u to downshift at ANY rpm as well. im running the rachet shifter "mega shifter" from B&M and it shifts like a dream. you dont need a manual valve body unless its a race only car/trans. this kit allows for manual upshifting and downshifting and when u leave it in Drive and OVerdrive the trans acts like a normal automatic but it still shifts just as hard as it would if u manually shifted.

his kits are designed for softer low RPM shifts and they get alot firmer the higher you shift. you will not be dissapointed. your best bet is to talk to dana and he will tell u what im telling u. the vette servo will decrease slippage which can cause a faster shift but mostly it just gives u a more positive shift without slippage due to increased clamping force.

S_Johnson

Sounds great man! Thanks for all your help.

S_Johnson

oh, sort of on topic. Can I use rubber hose for the tranny cooler lines from the existing metal pipes around to the front where the auxiliary cooler will be? to make is easier to work with? or is metal a much better idea, even for only a foot or so? Thanks.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

u can use rubber line... thats usually whats supplied in a auxilary trans cooler kit... but its special transmission rubber hose... any regular rubber hose will NOT work. transmissions can see anywhere from 150-300psi. the hose has to be rated for that pressure and the fluids properties. rubber line will HAVE to be replaced from time to time... your best bet is fabricating your own hard lines or running a braided stainless line with AN fittings. (which i will do along with fuel lines eventually)

when using rubber line u have to have a good seal so check for leaks after its been installed and has the tranny up to temperature, then go for a drive and look for leaks etc. also dont make sharp bends with rubber line and keep it away from any type of rubbing or moving parts. i bought some Haynes or Hayden transmission cooler rubber line that i found at an advance auto parts store bc i wanted to replace the B&M line just to be safe for a yr or so. I use double clamps with at least 4-5" of rubber hose slipped over the HARD line for max clamping with double hose clamps.

Pro Built Automatics

Cooling lines on the 700R4 will never see more than 70-75psi. max. if ever that much. The TH400 can reach 110psi., but rarely.

S_Johnson

Ok, thanks guys!