Warnd

Hello, I am about to take the plunge into turning my 1992 z28 from automatic to manual. From the various research that I have been doing, I have decided that the T5 will not be enough for my needs and I saw that the next most popular choice was the T56. Are there any alternative choices that can be had for around the same price as a T56 that would be a better option?

My main question is regarding the different types of T56's that are out there. Right now my car is an l98 but at some point within the next year after the tranny is done there will be an LS1 going in. I want to make sure that the transmission that I buy will be able to bolt up to my l98 now and be able to bolt up to the LS1 at a later point in time. Is this possible? Is there a specific year T56 that I should look for that maybe has advantages over the others?

Lastly is there anything in particular i need to look out for within the 1992 year that would make this swap different from any other thirdgen swap?

Sorry for the long winded post but any help you guys would be able to provide would be greatly appreciated as I am buying the transmission within the next week or so. Thanks again for reading!

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Actually, you an use the 98-02 Z28/SS/TA T56 transmission for an LS1 with a adapter plate that uses the stock T5 bell housing for the 83-92 f body, then you can swap the gear box out with the LSx of your choice when you get the new engine, you will have to use the 92 down hydraulics till you do the swap, so you will be spending a bit extra, but i am sure you can sell the stuff afterward.

Warnd

Ok so I can get any 1998+ T56 from a camaro or firebird and with an adapter plate, be able to make it all work?

Another question I had was if you bought a transmission with 50,000 miles on it, would you have it rebuilt before you put it into your car? Also would it be smarter to use fourth gen or third gen pedal assembly for this?

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

Adaptor plate:
http://www.thegearbox.org/catalog/it...17/4803441.htm

Extended pilot bushing:
http://www.thegearbox.org/catalog/it...17/6239106.htm

Your '92 should have a digital VSS to the ECM, but you'll need to reprogram it and the dash speedo divisor to go from the 3rdgen VSS to the ~40,000 ppm T56 signal.

Stick with the 4thgen pedal set if you can, but it should only be a slight difference one way or another.

50K isn't that bad millage for a T56, assuming it wasn't abused. You can probably wait to rebuild it before you finish the LS1 swap.

TKOPerformance

First the T56 has no real direct competition. It's a 6 speed in a world of 5 speeds. The cost of a T56 swap and a Tremec swap is going to be close. It will depend on how much of the old T56 parts you elect to use (clutch, flywheel, hydraulics, etc.), but the Tremec is still a 5 speed. For a 3rd gen it doesn't get any better than a T56 IMO.

There are two ways you can go. If you use the '93-'97 F car T56 it will bolt right up to your L98 and you'll even be able to use a stock flywheel. Use the '93-'97 hydraulics. You'll need a custom x-member from Skulte or Spohn and you need to fabricate one exhaust hanger, and do some wiring (you'll have to do that no matter what you do it's part of the auto to manual swap). Otherwise it's a direct bolt in. The other option is using the '98-'02 F car trans and dealing with some issues now in order to make your future LS1 swap easier. If you use the LS1 trans you will need an adapter plate, an extended pilot bushing, and you have to use the LS1 hydraulics because the LS1 trans has no provisions for a clutch fork (this part of the swap I'm not 100% familiar with, so I can't say if it's a bolt in or not). If you use the '93-'97 trans you can mate it up to the LS1 later with a McLeod bellhousing. This will also allow you to retain the hydraulics from the '93-'97 car, so the only part you'll really need will be the bellhosuing (which I will admit is pricey, but it's also SFI certified). The point is that it is not impossible to use the '93-'97 trans behind an LS1. See which trans is cheaper and weight that in your decision too. Also, be honest about the LS1 swap. If it's a definite then the LS1 trans becomes more attractive. If it's a maybe, or a wish then I'd stick with the '93-'97 trans. I've been messing with cars long enough to know that temporary solutions have a habit of becoming permenant. My car was supposed to have a twin turbo small block in it by now...

Does a trans with 50,000 on it need to be rebuilt? Depends on how it was driven. Keep in mind that the trans you buy is coming from a wrecked car. Personally I would opt for a rebuild. That way you know the trans is fresh and guaranteed not to have any problems. You may be able to get a warranty with the trans from the salvage yard, but then you will still have to pull it and install a new one in the hopes that it won't have the same or a different problem. I can rebuild it for you, or recommend someone depending on where you live. PM me if you want to know more.

I have read of problems with the 4th gen pedals. Not all the time, but occasionally a swapper will post that they had an issue. I'd recommend the 3rd gen pedals. It's an easy bolt in swap that guarantees no problems. I used the 3rd gen pedals in my swap and found it to be very easy.

BTW, if you elect to use the '93-'97 F car trans stay away from the '93 unit. It has a really high 1st gear and is rated to less torque than the later T56s. Make sure to get the actual year of the donor car from the place you buy the trans. Ask them what it's out of. The computer system they use will tell you that a '93 trans works in a '93-'97 car, which is correct, but you don't want a '93. Don't assume anything when dealing with a salvage yard, make sure.

Warnd

The Ls1 is a deffinite plan for this car. I just didnt have all the funds to do the t56 and ls1 at the same time so i elected to do the transmission first and when the rest of my funds fall into place after selling my current daily driver, the ls1 will be going in.

With that said, it almost seems as if the LT1 transmission is the better choice. From my research so far the LT1 trannys can be had for a better deal than the LS1 Trannys and for right now will be easier to put together.

I am a little confused on the situation with the hydraulics. If I went with the LT1 Trans I would have to use 93-97 hydraulics? Would these hydraulics still be usefull when it comes time to put the ls1 in or would I have to switch to 98-02 hydraulics? Is there an advatage to either system?

As for the rebuild, how much do these typically cost?

TKOPerformance

When you use the LT1 trans you use the LT1 hydraulics. The LT1 system uses a clutch fork, slave cylinder, and master cylinder setup like a 3rd gen. It is a direct bolt in to a 3rd gen. There is a small bracket that mounts the master cylinder and a few other bits you can grab off of a 3rd gen stick car in a junkyard and it will make the LT1 hydraulics look like a factory install in a 3rd gen.

The LS1 uses a hydraulic throwout bearing, so it does not need a clutch fork. The T56 mounts the clutch fork to a T piece with a bolt that attaches it to the rear face of the trans. An LS1 trans won't have the provision to mount a clutch fork. This means you will have to use the LS1 hydraulics, which have the hydraulic throwout bearing. I do not know if the LS1 hydraulics will bolt into a 3rd gen the way the LT1 hydraulics do. I'm not saying that they don't; I just don't know.

I will send you a PM with details about the rebuild. TGO guidelines dictate that I not discuss business in an open forum.

rippin ron

If you're going with the ls1 later, i'd go with the ls1 t56 now. Like mentioned before you will need the adapter plate, and pilot bushing, cross member and torque arm. Your drive shaft will have to be shortened and the shifter will be back further than stock. When you go with the ls1 the drive shaft will need to be longer but shorter than stock. You could keep the aftermarket torque arm and cross member you and extend the tranny mount area forward. Maybe you can recoup some of you money by selling the adapter plate. Either way your into doing mods to make them work with both engine types. A T5 bell housing is 6.3", the LT1 t56 bell housing is 4.9" in depth, the LS1 is 5.5", the LS1 with the plate and T5 bell is 6.3" + 0.5".

Warnd

Ok so I think that I have made the decision to get a LT1 Transmission as it appears to be less work and being that this is my first time doing a swap like this I want it to go as smooth as possible. Thanks for all of your help with my questions, I really appreciate the help from the people that have way more experience than me.

Anyways I am getting ready to purchase everything because all of my funds are in place. Before I go and start ordering things I want to make sure my parts list is complete and that I wont be missing something in the middle of the swap. So far here is what I have on the list.

LT1 Transmission
Pilot Bushing
Flywheel
Clutch Disc
Pressure Plate
Release Bearing
Bellhousing
LT1 Hydraulic assembly
Pedal Assembly
Shifter
Tranny Crossmember

I am sure there are somethings that I am missing so again all of your help is appreciated. Also, out of the above parts, which ones would you be willing to purchase used and which ones should I deffinitely purchase new?

TKOPerformance

Obviously you'll need to get the trans and bellhousing used. I wouldn't have a problem using the stock LT1 flywheel used, just get it surfaced before you install it. You can reuse the stock clutch fork no problem. Get the pedals used (I recommend third gen pedals). Get the master cylinder bracket and slave cylinder hardware from a 3rd gen car. You can reuse your 700R4 torque arm mount.

I would get a new clutch assembly (disc, p. plate, TO bearing) and pilot bushing/bearing. I would also spring for new hydraulics. '97 (the last year for the LT1) was 12 years ago, and the new hydraulics are less than $100 from GM. Use a new trans mount (I'm not partial to poly aftermarket ones either, just get a new rubber one).

Junk the stock shifter and get a Pro 5.0 for a '93-'97 car. You'll need an aftermarket crossmember (I recommend one from Skulte (SPD)).

You will have to do some fabrication work on the exhaust hanger for the cat.

You will have to do some wiring. Get a wiring diagram for a stick and an auto car and reroute the wiring accordingly. Your hatch release will have to be rewired or it won't work (most people forget to tell you that). You will also have to figure out how you want to handle the VSS. The T56 VSS sends a different signal than the 3rd gen VSS. One option (and probably the best) is to use a Dakota Digital SGI-5 to convert the T56 VSS to a 3rd gen signal. You need a VSS signal for three things: ECM, speedo, and cruise control.

Get four quarts of ATF. I greatly prefer Amsoil synthetic ATF. It's great stuff and the price is reasonable at about $7-$8/quart.

If you need factory part numbers for anything, even wiring pigtails, PM me I have every number associated wtih this swap.

Warnd

[quote=TKOPerformance;4193923] You will have to do some wiring. Get a wiring diagram for a stick and an auto car and reroute the wiring accordingly. Your hatch release will have to be rewired or it won't work (most people forget to tell you that). You will also have to figure out how you want to handle the VSS. The T56 VSS sends a different signal than the 3rd gen VSS. One option (and probably the best) is to use a Dakota Digital SGI-5 to convert the T56 VSS to a 3rd gen signal. You need a VSS signal for three things: ECM, speedo, and cruise control.quote]

Ok so I am clear on pretty much everything except for this part right here. Even though my car is a 1992 I will still have to buy the converter box? I was under the impression that I could reprogram what I have now and have it work that way.

Just wanted to say thank you TKO. You have been extremely helpful and have answered every question I have asked in full detail. It is good to have someone like you around the boards who is full of information and willing to share it. Thanks again.

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

The hatch wires through the neutral safety switch. assuming you wire it correctly to the clutch pedal as you should, there's no extra concern with it.

The '92 ECM will read the T56 VSS directly, but you do have to program the speed constant and dash divisor. If you can't reprogram your PROM or have someone do it for you, you'll need an external converter.

online170

Guys which has the longer input shaft?

The LT1 or the LS1?

I thought the LS1 had the longer one, but from your posts it looks the other way around.

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

The LS1 input shaft is longer than the LT1 by over an inch.

LT1 -vs- LS1 -vs- CTSv

online170

Oh ok.

So the LS1 input shaft JUST reaches, but barely and thats what the extended bushing is for?

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

Yes, for doing a retro-fit with the adaptor plate, the extended pilot bushing makes up the extra 1/2" from the actual (weaker) Tremec retrofit unit.

LT1 -vs- LS1 -vs- RetroT56 -vs- CTSv

Warnd

Whats up guys , just another quick question.

I just purchased a 1997 T56 with Pro 5.0 shifter and was wondering if you could help me out with some part numbers.

I am looking to buy all of the below new in order to minimize the amount of things that can go wrong when doing the swap. Let me know what you think and if you had any part numbers that would be great.

-Pilot Bushing
-Flywheel
-Clutch Disc
-Pressure plate
-Release Bearing
-any bolts or fastners that are require to bolt all of this up

I noticed that some of these things come in a kit. If you have a part number for something like that I guess it would be easier that way. Am I missing anything that needs to be new? (aside from the crossmemeber from skulte, I will just get that from there website.)

Thank you very much to all the replies in this thread so far because I would never have attempted something like this without the guidance of some of you very well informed people. I really do appreciate it.

billybengal

4th gen Camaro's had 3 different T-56 trannies. The gearing was different for all three of them and they were all rated to handle different amounts of torque: 360, 400 and 450. That's according to "How to tune and modify your 82-98 camaro" book. Now I'm guessing that the LS1 would be the strongest one (I don't have the book with me now, I'm not even sure if it mentions that).

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

The M28 and M29 versions were available in '93. The MM6 is in all the other '94-'02 years.. The LS1 versions ('98-'02) are no stronger than the non-93 ('94-'97) LT1 versions. There have been small improvements all along the way, but in general (especially if being rebuilt) all '94-'02 are rated at the same strength.

Warnd - You should decide on a Clutch/Flywheel Mfg (SPEC, Centerforce, McLeod, stock, etc.) and purchase a pkg.. This way you won't have to mix/match yourself. Some kits come with TOBs, some with pilots, etc.. After you get your kit, pickup anything else missing from your local speed shop or autoparts store.. Most of the extra parts are not performance parts and can be stock replacements.

Warnd

Is there one Mfg that you would reccomend over another? The car will be a mildly moded daily driver that will see a couple of weekends at the track per year. All said and done I my realistic goals for the car are right around 400 hp eventually. Are stock replacements good enough to suit these goals? Or should I look to something a little more serious?

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

My friend has a 406 motor that he mostly autocrosses. It has a centerforce flywheel and autozone clutch/PP. He knows how to shift well and has never had a problem with it slipping.. (and he would prefer if it did slip, rather then the transmission/driveshaft/rear/etc breaking)

TKOPerformance

Been busy, sorry it took me a bit to get back.

I would recommend SPEC for the clutch. For street use I'd stick with a Stage II. The Kevlar facings will last the longest and be the most tolerant of abuse, but they take some getting used to, as the clutch engagement is a bit harsh (the disc doesn't want to slip). I'm running a Stage III in my Camaro, and it's a bit harsh for street driving. I have a Stage II in my WRX and it's much better, though it's still Kevlar and took some getting used to (I was only getting 55k out of a stock clutch and that was just not enough IMO, so that's why I decided on the Kevlar one).

For the flywheel you can use a stock LT1. I would caution you from going too light. The lighter the flywheel the more it will amplify the harshness of an aggressive clutch. When the flywheel doesn't have a lot of mass, and when the clutch grabs hard it slows the engine down a lot and can make for a clunky, jerky takeoff. Again, you can learn to drive around this, and with the proper finess it can be almost totally overcome, but for the street I'd stick with a steel flywheel. A couple pounds lighter than stock (3-5) isn't a big deal. Anything more than that and you will see a difference in how the car behaves. You may also experience stalling problems when you push in the clutch if the flywheel is much lighter than stock. This can be overcome by adjusting the idle speed up and changing the IAC steps in your ECM. In my car I run a McLeod aluminum flywheel and the clutch/flywheel combo is a bit much for the street, as I stated before. When I drive the car a lot it isn't an issue, but when it sits for a while and I jump in it an expect to go have fun I'm reminded that I have to be a lot more vigilant with my left foot than usual.

The flywheel bolts are PN 12337973, the pressure plate bolts are PN 10079898, and a roller pilot bearing is PN 14061685. All are GM part numbers.

As noted, you can simply adjust your VSS divisor in your ECM to get your speedo, etc. to read right. I couldn't do that with my '86 and sometimes forget that you can do it with the later model cars.

Warnd

Hello again

One more question before I click the order button. I apologize for all the questions, I just have a habit of becoming over obsessive about these types of things.

Anyways im sure this is a stupid question but when I purchase this clutch package and flywheel. Do i purchase the package to match my L98 or do I pretend that I have an Lt1 car and purchase the parts to match that?

I think Ive decided on getting the package from SPEC but only the stage 1 as I think it will suit my needs for now. Do you guys have a specific store you like to order from online? Is summit racing a good source for decent prices?

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

Since you have a 1pcRMS crank, you can order a clutch/FW pkg as if you had an LT1 motor.

Good call on the stage1, you don't want to throw alot of $ at this if you're saving for an LS1 swap. As I mentioned, even a stock setup would work for your power-level/usage. I'm not a fan of SPEC, so maybe someone else can recommend a vendor for ya..

Warnd

I am open to all opinions on this matter because you guys know wayyyy more about it than I do. Is Centerforce a brand that you are more partial to? Are there any Mfg that you would recomend?

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

You don't really need to spend much since this is a transistion setup anyway.. I prefer McLeod for clutches/flywheels/bellhousing, but everyone will have their own preference. I'm more concerned with how much $ you put into a clutch/FW since you'll just be selling it in a year or so..

TKOPerformance

I do not like Centerforce for this application. I used their dual friction kits for musclecars for years and loved them, but once the clutches went hydraulic and you lost the ability to adjust them I encountered problems. The Centerforce discs are thicker than stock, and can cause a problem where the stock hydraulics will not move the TO bearing enough to completely disengage the clutch. This leads to hard shifting, even when the clutch is all the way on the floor, and shortened clutch life since the disc is essentially always slipping when you think it's disengaged.

This problem and a suggestion in a magazine article I read some years ago got me to give SPEC a chance. Thus far I've liked their products and feel the cost is fair. I'm currently running them in both my Camaro and my WRX (which is my wife's daily driver).

I have limited experience with McLeod, but am running one of their flywheels in my Camaro. It was an excellent piece of work and the price was very fair compared to comprable products. I also know that Bob Hanlon from Hanlon Motorsports recommends and sells their products, and his opinion means a lot to me. He does own the world's fastest Tremec equipped car.

I will agree that if cost is an issue you can go somewhat cheap on this stuff for now. However I also know that plans change and temporary fixes have a habit of becoming permanent.

vexter

iTrader: (3)

The part number for the pressure plate bolts has been discontinued for awhile now.

89IROKCONVERT

i actually just went through this it is a good part # but you have to call a dozen gm dealerships to find one that ha it in there comp i just bought 8 of them from 2 different places (all dealers have 4 or fewer i obviously needed 6 ) on opposite sides of the us to the tune of 88 $ the paper my dealership gave me said there were 28 left in the us better get them while you can i couldnt find them anywhere aftermarket

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Get 3/8-16 bolts that are the proper grade, longer length than the stock PP bolts and are halfway threaded (so they index the flywheel). They work fine.

vexter

iTrader: (3)

Grade 9 bolts here...