joshh44

alright guys.
im in abit of a pickle. well not really but will be soon.
im doing an engine build and hoping to get 450 - 500hp.
and i know my stock T5 wont cut it. and i dont want to risk it just dropping in a 500hp engine to it and start driving. and then BOOM no more trans.

i looked into getting a TH350 with a shift kit that will hold up to the hp.
but i quite enjoy driving a standard and having to press the clutch to change gears.
i asked my one of my buddys if he knew if there were any good Transmission places where i lived and he said you can make the T5 transmission so it can hold up to the hp fairly easy.
then it got me thinking. i could rebuild my stock transmission and buy better parts for it. and pop it right back in. and dont have to worry about getting a shifter and all that for the TH350.

My question is. Is it worth trying to make the T5 stronger? and is it worth it in the long run? and fairly cheap to do?
if its going to cost me roughly about the same to get a TH350. ill just go ahead and get the 350. dont have to fiddle around trying to put the tranny back togeather or pay a shop to do it.

phillip_helmet

iTrader: (5)

The lifetime of T5's seems to depend a lot on how you drive it. Drive it like a grandma and it'll last a long time. Seeing as how you built a 450hp engine, I doubt you want to drive it like a grandma. Given that, and the fact that you said you like having a manual trans, you should go the T56 route. It'll hold up to the horsepower, plus it has the two overdrives so you can use some pretty tall gears in the rear. If I were you, I'd get an LT1 T56, a crossmember mounted torque arm, and a decent clutch (McLeod or Centerforce). Might cost more up front for that setup, but you'll save in the end.

joshh44

i totally didnt even think of the T56. and i would never drive like a grandma haha.
well givin the new idea of the T56. how much hp can that hold up?? im sure i can get one from the wrecker if there is any 4th gen camaros out there.
wait. 4th gen camaros use thos transmissions right? i cant remember! getting old
anyways. if they do come from 4th gens. ill check wreckers and go a rebuild. and ill get a good clutch. i found a good centerforce clutch if i go with the Manual trans route.

what would you say a used T56 transmission would cost??

phillip_helmet

iTrader: (5)

A T56 can hold a pretty decent amount of power. It'll handle low 11's on a regular basis. Start dipping into the mid to low 10's and you're going to need to rebuild it eventually.

I'm assuming you're using a non-LSX based engine, right? In that case, you're going to need a 93-97 T56 from an F-body. The whole setup will probably cost you between $1200 and $1800. Depending on what year your engine is, you'll need a flywheel to match your rear main seal. If you're using an older block with a 2 piece rear seal, you'll need a special flywheel from Centerforce. You'll have to use a clutch/pressure plate for 93-97 Camaro/Firebird too; it's different from both the T5 and LS1 T56 setup.

You can use 3rd gen or 4th gen pedals. You'll have to use the hydraulics from 93-97 F-body. You'll have to buy a trans crossmember; several companies make these including Spohn and BMR. Your speedo won't work with the T56 unless you get a converter box or an aftermarket speedometer; I know Autometer makes one that works.

The little odds and ends of the swap are what add up. It's definitely a case of do it once and do it right, though. If you put a T5 in there, you'd be rebuilding it all the time. A TH350 would hold up, but you may have to get a different driveshaft depending on if you've got a short or long tail 350, and you'd probably have to do a full manual valvebody. You'd have to get a trans crossmember for the 350 too, plus a kit for mounting the torque arm.

joshh44

yeah thats whats holding me up. is all the odds and ends stuff.
ill be using 3rd gen pedals.
and i have an older style engine. a 1977 chevy 350 2 main seal and bored and ready for the 383 to be put to geather very shortly.
im just trying to find the right trans.
i dont really want to rebuild all the time so ill probably drop the T-5.
anyways. i roughly guess a TH350 swap would cost me about $1800 by the time i get in here after shipping and taxes and all assembled on the car.

would i have to geta new driveshaft if i go with the T56?? ill eventrually get a new rear end. but thats probably be happening in the next year or 2 tho. so ill be stuck with the 10 bolt for awhile. or until i win the lotto :P

thanks for the info on the T56 ill defently concerd doing that swap. i didnt think it would hold up to that amount of power.

phillip_helmet

iTrader: (5)

You can use a standard 3rd or 4th gen driveshaft with a t56. The flywheel you'll need is Summit # CTF-700107. If you're prepared to spend $1800 on a th350, you should seriously consider a t56 instead. Not that there's anything wrong with putting a th350 in your car, it would just be more fun with a t56, especially if it's a street/strip car. Oh, and a t56 will give you better gas mileage

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Well let me give you a piece of advice:

Since he knows so much about it and is clearly an expert and you believe what he has to say about it, let him handle it. Make sure he gives you a warranty. I'd suggest at least a year, more like 2 years would be better. On top of that, since as we all know a warranty is only as good as the money backing it up, make him deposit whatever you agree to pay him into an escrow account, which has to remain untouched for the agreed-on length of the warranty, except for the expenses of honoring the warranty.

If you actually READ this forum and pay attention to the questions other peple have asked and the discussion about the answers, you'd see numerous long, detailed threads about what it takes to do a T-56 swap; which one those of us who have done it have used; what parts we used, either junk, new, GM, aftermarket, whatever; what parts have to be changed, and what we were able to re-use out of a 3rd gen; a few of the little hidden "gotchas" we ran into; and what we've had to pay to get through doing it.

joshh44

i was going to go check out the search and look up T56 swaps after he hockey game is over. yes im a hockey fan
anyways i looked up a T56 and i came across this website that tells you what you need and how to install it
http://www.skulte.com/T56.html
i jsut started reading about it so im not to far into it.
i think i might get the T56 tranny. it will be more fun to drive the car im not to bad at fast shifting for the drag strip now and then.
so it should be pretty good.

and my buddy is a ford guy. he has a '95 mustang. we bash each other about chevy and ford. jsut for laughs. i wasnt totally conviced on what he was talking about. i think ill just stick a T56 or a TH350. i think it would be cheaper for a T56 tho. if i just go to the auto wrecker and pick me up a tranny and the shifter and what ever i need to complete the swap. tho i would rebuild the tranny anyways while i have it out. and perhaps sell the T5 to someone local and have some extra money for rebuilding and

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Yeah Andris (Skulte) is a regular on this site. We know him. Good guy, good site.

But by no means the last word, or all-inclusive, or any of that. It's just a quick thumbnail, kind of barely just scrapes the surface.

You might want to just scroll down the page, and start reading posts with "T-56" in the title; and visit the FAQ board, and read the post something about "everything you always wanted to know about the T-56 swap but didn't know you had to ask".

Once you've absorbed all of the EXCRUCIATINGLY DETAILED stuff we've all posted about the swap, with pics, part #s, measurements, $$$, instructions, techniques, and whatever all else, if there's something that we haven't already addressed, we'll be ready to talk about it. Meanwhile, it gets REAL OLD posting the same things over and over again for people who won't read the old stuff we've already written repeatedly.

joshh44

i keep forgetting to use the search thingy haha.
ill surly take a look threw there and get as much input i can get abut the swap.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

By all means do that...

BTW, if you need wheel spacers, he's a good place to look.

joshh44

thanks for the added info :P

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

It is cheaper to rebuild a WC T5 with G-Force Transmission parts and will hold up to 600hp. Also you would want to have overdrive for the FWY's. I can't think of it right now but there is another company that has aftermarket HP parts for the T5. Or you could invest in a Tremec TKO 500 or 600 T5 trans.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

I have a T5 with G Force parts in it as well. It seems great, but I haven't spent extensive time really bashing it yet.

For what I paid, I might have gone the T56 route. It would have been more work, though, and time was at a premium as I was overseas and my break was only a few days before I had to go back. I am happy with the trans, but when I put serious horsepower to it we'll see what it has then. I'm supposed to be set for upwards of 450-500 hp, but that remains to be seen.

VincentZ28, how hard are you on your car and what's the fastest time you've run?

jamesw343

iTrader: (1)

astro performance warehouse has upgraded hardware for the t5,it's about the same pricing as g-force.Just to let you know for the price you'll pay for a t56 tranny and the stuff to install you can build one badazz t5 that will take the power you put to it.Plus the t5 will weigh a lot less than the t56 and more compact.Just a thought.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

Well......

There are guys here who have blown those "super" T5 rebuilds up around here. I'm not one of them, but the problem with our T5 housings is that they distort and spread apart which allows the gears to run on the tips of the teeth instead of the middle of the gear tooth. Now, my gears are supposed to be bigger and stronger and all the rest, but that doesn't stop case distortion.

There are a few other guys here with similar stuff to mine and haven't had problems but there are guys here who have blown them to hell as well.

MAYBE they just had a weak housing??? I know I was spec'd to run a world class housing only, I don't know if that matters...

C.M.Jones

you can use your stock setup if you use this adapter (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TREME...spagenameZWDVW) then it make everthing MUCH easier then all you'll basically need is the Transmission itself (not even need the bellhousing) and the Crossmember

wait... the T5 does have a separate Bellhousing right?

jamesw343

iTrader: (1)

The t5 cases are weak sand cast but g force sales a reinforced case that really helps to keep everything in its' place.Moving the torque arm mount from the rear tranny housing to the cross member helps to keep stress off also.
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But a t56 still cost 1500-1800 and weighs 3X as much.

joshh44

so how much HP can a T5 handle for the same cost as getting a T56 installed?
like upgrading the parts for the T5.

jamesw343

iTrader: (1)

500-600hp and 450-550ftpd tq for 1300-1500.00 for everything

joshh44

oh ok. where do you get the parts from??
i checked both astro performance warehouse and G-force and i couldnt find anything.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Check the sig! I also upgraded to a Pro 5.0 shifter. I bang it pretty hard. I have the entire G-Force kit except the case. I also installed the steel forks because I broke the stock ones from a hard shift. I used the WC T5 from a RS because the RS T5 has an overdrive .63 5th gear vs an IROC WC with a .73 5th gear. Better FWY driving with 3.70 gears, 70mph@2100.

Shagwell

far too many people have grenaded those high dollar T5's for me to waste my money. No matter what you do, the case is still the weak point. The "upgraded" cases help some, but the distance from the front to the rear cannot be altered, thus the stress in 3rd gear is still fairly unsupported. It will go boom. The high dollar parts will pro-long it's life, but it will still eventually go boom, leaving you to buy another $2k T5(all upgrades including case cost upwards of $1800). There will be nothing to be saved, thus no simple rebuild. - it's kinda like life support for a terminal patient, you can keep paying for it if you want, but the bottom line is as soon as the switch is flipped, they're dead.

do a search, this topic has been covered many times. If the weight is the only "problem" with a t56, then get a TKO.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

I had my up grades for 3 years and never went BOOM! I have heard T56's go boom when they are bang too hard. So It's how you shift and how you take care of it. Any long term abuse to a trans will shorten the life of the trans.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Uhm, Vince? You've broken your G-Force T5 twice that I know of, "just driving around" as you say. What do you mean it never went BOOM!?

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

What had broken was worn out stock parts with about 200,000miles on it and a defected McCloud clutch that released 1/2 in from the floor. No more problems after that.

383backinblack

Unless you're in Dire need of a 6 speed, look into the tremec TKO 5 speed transmissions......

the TKO 600 is smaller, lighter, and stronger than an OEM t56.......and in my experience its been about the same price if not a little cheaper to do the swap.

I never got the whole g-force t5 thing.....t5's are flawed S*** design, i dont care how strong you make the case........you blow up 200 t5's.....then shell out some serious cash for.......a beefed up transmission thats.....ANOTHER t5......i dont care what the case is like.....

thats like getting the clap from some chubby chick.......then she loses weight and looks hot and all new and improved, so you do her again.....and guess what? hahaha

joshh44

i was looking at the TKO transmissions but there friggin expensive!!
unless they are way overpricing them i found them to be around $3100 - $4000+
i dont really care to much about he 6th gear. i rarly drive on the highway anyways. highway driving is really boring. anyways
how much did you pay for your TKO600??

383backinblack

wow......wtf dude, I don't know where those prices are coming from.......

mine was 1890 bucks or something a couple years ago, for just the trans......and they're normally a little bit over 2,100 bucks or so for the whole swap kit.....usually includes an adapter plate, a pilot bushing, speedo adapter, bolts & hardware, slip yoke, etc.

3100 bucks is WAY too expensive, unless something drastic has happened since i bought mine. I've had 2 of these transmissions, an older TKO II which had probably 800 passes on it on slicks, and 15-20,000 miles of street driving. It never made a peep......i got the TKO 600 mainly cause i wanted a different 1st gear ration, and its been holding up great.

Shagwell

that was great.

- There have been far more people who broke their high dollar T5's than those who had one live. If you're gonna race it then you either need to be able to shift clutchless or you need an auto. - None of my 3 broke during a shift, and I shift clutchless, right foot in the floor. They all broke under power in 3rd gear. Most guys that try to quick shift using the clutch shock the trans harder than a smooth clutchless shift does. - That 600hp rating is completely worthless. It's been proven many times that that is a number they just pulled out of the air. If you use a mild street clutch, regular street tires and bs suspension then it will handle around 600hp, woooppeee. If you pit it behind a strong clutch, throw some decent DR';s on it and tune aftermarket suspension components in well your lucky if it will handle 400hp.

I've got sofa's rant qouted in my sig just for when these threads come up....