IROCaholic

Ok so heres the scoop, I swapped from auto to T5 and I just got everything back together and running. I started the car and let it warm, and then I pushed the clutch pedal in and it started making a terrible whining sound. So I took my foot off and then pressed it again and of course the sound was there again. So I cut the car off and Pushed the clutch pedal down to see what was up and it felt like something was binding and not letting it push down all the way. I got under the car and played with the clutch for a little and the pedal felt better. So I went to start the car and when I turned the starter it made a sound like the starter was grinding with the flywheel. Whats the deal? I appreciatte any help I can get.

blue82_z28

lol.. throw out bearing??

IROCaholic

Yeah, I was thinking I would just go ahead and pull the tranny and get a new fork, pivot ball, and Throw bearing just to see if that fixed it, but I would rather not pull the tranny right now.

IROCaholic

No one has experienced anything like this huh?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Only when the TOB failed.

I don't think anybdy giving you any other guesses, will fix it any better than pulling the transmission. I hate to be the bearer of the bad news, but.... there's not much else to say about it.

If I was going to do that much work, I belive I'd replace the clutch at the same time, unless the one you've got is pretty new (like less than 10,000 miles or so). Not much point in pulling the car apart to change the TOB now, and then 3 months on down the road, doing it again to change the clutch when it needs it.

IROCaholic

Yeah, the clutch is brand new, but so is the throw out bearing. I guess I am just going to pull the tranny, but since I have no clue what the problem is and the only thing on the car that is not new is form and pivot ball I am dont want to re-assemble it wrong again if I did do something wrong. Thats why I was hoping someone here had a simular experience.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Every time I've had that happen it's been the TOB.

The fork and ball won't cause that. They'll cause other things sometimes, but not bearing noises.

Proof would be, if the noise isn't there with the engine not running. Since of course, the only thing thats different between when the engine is running and when it's not, is that the TOB is or isn't spinning.

Sux that it's all new and broke anyway but sometimes that's the way it goes.

IROCaholic

So is do you have any clue what the sound I am hearing while the starting is turning? I sounds like its missing the flywheel, you know that loud grinding, but not exactly like it. What do you think?

blue82_z28

well i had a whining noise when i pushed my clutch in everytime, it turned out to be the throwout bearing. but i dunno, i'd pull the tranny and check things out one more time.

rx7speed

as far as the noises when the clutch is pushed in the only other time I have noise like that not throwout bearing related was on my mazda when the the pilot bearing took a dump on me. either way end result is you need to take the tranny out.

IROCaholic

Got the trans out today and all I can say is WTF? The "fork" part of the clutch fork was bent on both sides and the throwout bearing looks like its been through a grinder. What the hell did I do? It looks like the throwout bearing was ripped right off of the fork with some tremendous force. I am ordering all the new parts tonight and I will install them next weekend. In the mean time I need to figure out what I did wrong so I dont do it again.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Sound pretty normal for a failed TOB.... when the bearing part goes bad, the part that attaches to the fork, which is supposed to sit still, spins along with the part that's up against the clutch instead of sitting still attached to the fork; so it grinds against the "ears" of the fork. Doesn't take long to really make a mess out of some stuff.

You probably didn't really "do anything wrong", as such. Just make sure when you put it back together, that you assemble it like my famous pic. Search this forum for my userID and words like "throwout" and "fork" and "assemble", you'll find it.

IROCaholic

Yeah, I have seen the famous picture and I used it when I assembled this thing the first time. Thanks for the input guys.

IROCaholic

Well I got all the parts today and I am a little concerned. My new TO bearing does not have the little tabs on it to hold it in place on the fork. On the box it says "self aligning". Sofa I know your the expert on the TO bearing, can I use this thing?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Yes it'll be fine.

Most TOBs don't have the "feature" to keep thm from rotating. If everything is working right, it's not needed; but if something screws up, it's not strong enough to do any good. Kind of just a "feel good" thing.

IROCaholic

Ok, so I went to reinstall everything tonight and I ran into two problems

1) it seem as though my fork is not long enough. The fork/bearing assembling just doesnt quite line up with everything else in the middle. I have attached a pic to show what I am talking about. Please forgive the lighting
2) The TO bearing sits to softly on in the fork. What I mean by this is that it moves in and out to easily. It was like this before which I think cause my problem in the first place.

So I think that when I install the tranny the input shaft is going to pull the TO bearing off of the fork unless I fix something. Anybody got any ideas?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

I don't see anything wrong with that; although, the pics are anything but clear.

The fork doesn't really "grab" the TOB. It's a pretty loose fit, always.

The clutch gear (manual transmissions don't have an "input shaft") can't do anything to the TOB. The TOB is located about an inch to an inch and a half down the clutch gear bearing retainer, away from the gear itself. In fact, if you look at the retainer, you can see quite clearly on it, where the TOB has been riding. The ID of the TOB is only about .030" (or less) larger than the OD of the retainer. It is quite postively held in its proper location. There is NO WAY for it to move up, down, to the side, or anywhere else, once it's all put together.

It's worth looking closely at the bearing retainer, and making sure the surface of it is smooth, not worn, and doesn't have any damage from the previous parts failures. That part is only about $20-25 new, so if there is any doubt about its condition, just change it out. Back when I had a lively business rebuilding 4-speeds, I ALWAYS put on new ones, because it was so cheeep that customers never complained, and it helped so much to avoid comebacks.

IROCaholic

Thanks Sofa, as usual you are a huge help. As you can tell the is my first manual tranny so I really have no clue what I am doing. Autos were just so much easier for me, but standards are much more fun.