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TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Has anyone tried using a bigger ball I've mastered it with a 1-1/2 ball noticed you can get 1-9/16 but am unsure if the area near the flange will accept this and crack where the runner meets
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
I got the next size ball through but you have to bore the flange out larger to accept the ball. I seriously doubt you can force it through without distorting the gasket surfaces at minimum.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by GEN Xer
I got the next size ball through but you have to bore the flange out larger to accept the ball. I seriously doubt you can force it through without distorting the gasket surfaces at minimum.
What next size? Most solely used 1-1/2 or 38mm the runner is about 37.5mm stock. I have access to 39, 40, 42mm yes the flange area is the hard part of the job i fear that opening up must be done very carefully to avoid burning through or splitting where it meets the runner
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
I don't remember exactly what size, I got the ***** from a mcmaster carr link in another thread on repairing runners and I got the inch and a half and the next 2 sizes up. Yes you have to be careful where the runner enters the flange, Mine have a taper that's wider at the top now. I took just a little bit at a time and had a couple decent aluminum burrs and a flex hone to work with. I really didn't have any concern about splitting that joint until I was deciding on running the largest ball through and didn't- but I have a lot of patience. If you're in a hurry there's a good chance you'll mess up your runner.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
No, I was just looking to fix the dent in my runners, not looking for fame and fortune, the before pic would look like a runner with a dent from a wrench in it, and the after pic would look like a runner with no dents lol. I could take a pic of them on the car if you'd like? Or I could take a picture of the set of ***** I used?
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
If your trying to enlarge the runner for more flow, don't bother. It's not the tube size or length it's the 180 degree turn from plenum to base that stalls the flow. Look at aftermarket intakes like the superram, only a 90 deg turn/ half the tube.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by GEN Xer
No, I was just looking to fix the dent in my runners, not looking for fame and fortune, the before pic would look like a runner with a dent from a wrench in it, and the after pic would look like a runner with no dents lol. I could take a pic of them on the car if you'd like? Or I could take a picture of the set of ***** I used?
Do you get the scratch marks out too ?
TPI will never be an LS, but it's the prettiest motor GM ever produced. Beautiful runners are part of that.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by BOOT77
If your trying to enlarge the runner for more flow, don't bother. It's not the tube size or length it's the 180 degree turn from plenum to base that stalls the flow. Look at aftermarket intakes like the superram, only a 90 deg turn/ half the tube.
That doesn't make any sense whatsoever- If it did- there wouldn't be AS&M large runners set nor a first tpi setup. Basic physics says you can blow more air through a 1-3/4 pipe than you can through a 1 -1/2 inch pipe. It's also not a 180 turn from the plenum to the base- it's more like 120, and the shortening of the runners on the superram raises the RPM ceiling. I don't believe that actually increases the flow BUT I'm also positive that the superram runners are also larger than stock because I've got a superram base on my formula and the ports are 1/8th inch or better larger than the ones on my stock expanded runners.
There's a thread here somewhere with all the flow numbers involving the tpi and stock heads with all the different combinations that were available- I would suggest reading through that if you're looking to increase flow.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by Eightyninef
Do you get the scratch marks out too ?
TPI will never be an LS, but it's the prettiest motor GM ever produced. Beautiful runners are part of that.
No I left them with the 150~ish grit finish that was leftover from the flex hone. I was mainly interested in getting the dent out when I started and that was enough for me because I'm keeping the stock tpi setup for the most part and without a ton of investment it's just not worth the effort.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by Eightyninef
TPI will never be an LS, but it's the prettiest motor GM ever produced. Beautiful runners are part of that.
The factory runners do look cool, but I still put SLP runners on my C4 because I could mod them A lot easier.
My TA runners were all dented up and even bought a set of ball bearings to fix them but never did, still got em in my TA parts tote I think. My C4 runners were flawless But I have read more care was given to the Corvettes assembly and many F-body TPI runners were dented from the factory.
A guy i know with a flow bench ported and tested some SLP runners vs stock and the gain was very mild, not worth it in his book. May put those stock flawless ones back on at some point.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by GEN Xer
That doesn't make any sense whatsoever- If it did- there wouldn't be AS&M large runners set nor a first tpi setup. Basic physics says you can blow more air through a 1-3/4 pipe than you can through a 1 -1/2 inch pipe. It's also not a 180 turn from the plenum to the base- it's more like 120, and the shortening of the runners on the superram raises the RPM ceiling. I don't believe that actually increases the flow BUT I'm also positive that the superram runners are also larger than stock because I've got a superram base on my formula and the ports are 1/8th inch or better larger than the ones on my stock expanded runners.
There's a thread here somewhere with all the flow numbers involving the tpi and stock heads with all the different combinations that were available- I would suggest reading through that if you're looking to increase flow.
The proof is in the design of all the Good aftermarket TPI replacements, IE Stealthram, Superam n so on....
It's the base or plenum mods that show some improvement.
Ask Chad Speier
In my opinion TPI is the biggest aftermarket parts ca$h grab, waste of money!
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by BOOT77
The proof is in the design of all the Good aftermarket TPI replacements, IE Stealthram, Superam n so on....
It's the base or plenum mods that show some improvement.
Ask Chad Speier
In my opinion TPI is the biggest aftermarket parts ca$h grab, waste of money!
Everyone has an opinion, even if it isn't relative to the thread topic right? The op asked if the larger diameter ball could be run through the runners safely, which I said yes. Without a play by play of all the info presented- a stock runner @ 1.47 inch diameter flows 203 cfm, accel runners @ 1.61 diameter flow 242. The 1-9/16 ball the OP suggested is 1.56 inches which will flow somewhere in between 203 and 242. Eliminating all the bottlenecks in this plagued system is a whole other topic and there's no reason to start another tpi debate about it because it's long been settled.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by GEN Xer
Runners (measured individually)
Stock....................203.17 cfm
ACCEL................242.02 cfm
Extrude/ACCEL...275.83 cfm
Super Ram............289.18 cfm
Intake manifold with 3/8 inch radiused intlet.............................222.45 cfm
Holley stealth ram ………..275cfm (after recommended runner clean-up)
The first guy I mentioned flowed the runners with a plenum on an intake base, not just the runners. Unlike in your example, so those numbers mean Nothing!
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by BOOT77
The first guy I mentioned flowed the runners with a plenum on an intake base, not just the runners. Unlike in your example, so those numbers mean Nothing!
I only quoted the relevant numbers, the link I left is a full page of tpi runner, manifold, and plenum specs- with the combinations of the various runners on the manifolds as well as maf sensor, airfoil, and throttle body flow numbers. It's been referenced on this forum for the last 8~ years at least.
And honestly I couldn't care less about what you or the guy you mentioned has to say either, he's just "some guy" you're referring to as far as I know- so your half baked, un referenced opinion actually means nothing not the well known data I presented.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by BOOT77
It's not the tube size or length it's the 180 degree turn from plenum to base that stalls the flow. Look at aftermarket intakes like the superram, only a 90 deg turn/ half the tube.
Incorrect, tube size absolutely has an affect on flow. Runner length influences the shape of the power curve, the aftermarket intakes have shorter runners to move the powerband past 5k.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by GEN Xer
I only quoted the relevant numbers, the link I left is a full page of tpi runner, manifold, and plenum specs- with the combinations of the various runners on the manifolds as well as maf sensor, airfoil, and throttle body flow numbers. It's been referenced on this forum for the last 8~ years at least.
And honestly I couldn't care less about what you or the guy you mentioned has to say either, he's just "some guy" you're referring to as far as I know- so your half baked, un referenced opinion actually means nothing not the well known data I presented.
Time & understanding changes A LOT of bad data.
People with actual head porting experience, that know how to use flow benches for Real results, have figured out the waste of time a TPI is And it's because of the runners 180 turn.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by Komet
Incorrect, tube size absolutely has an affect on flow. Runner length influences the shape of the power curve, the aftermarket intakes have shorter runners to move the powerband past 5k.
I didn't say it doesn't effect flow some, here I'll quote myself for those that can't read!
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by BOOT77
A guy i know with a flow bench ported and tested some SLP runners vs stock and the gain was very mild, not worth it in his book. May put those stock flawless ones back on at some point.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Look under my name, not at my post count but when I joined. I've been over all these stuff long ago. I've gone thru the TPI upgrades, all I did was try to save the dude some time & money.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by BOOT77
Time & understanding changes A LOT of bad data.
People with actual head porting experience, that know how to use flow benches for Real results, have figured out the waste of time a TPI is And it's because of the runners 180 turn.
Great job completely derailing the thread into your own little pissing match- no one gives a tish what these imaginary "people with actual head porting experience that know how to use flow benches for Real results" that you made up in your head say to you in your little anti tpi fantasy dreams. ALL YOU HAVE PRESENTED IS AN OPINION.
The op wants to jam a 1-9/16 ball through his runners, and with data presented by 2 people now- it will flow slightly better.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by GEN Xer
Great job completely derailing the thread into your own little pissing match- no one gives a tish what these imaginary "people with actual head porting experience that know how to use flow benches for Real results" that you made up in your head say to you in your little anti tpi fantasy dreams. ALL YOU HAVE PRESENTED IS AN OPINION.
The op wants to jam a 1-9/16 ball through his runners, and with data presented by 2 people now- it will flow slightly better.
I made a comment and YOU derailed this thread by quoting and engaging me, all you had to do was ignore my comment. That is the most absurd example/argument LOL
Chad Speier isn't made up, he ported a TPI on his FB, go ask him! The other guy I don't have permission to disclose.
It won't make a measurable difference other than lightening his wallet and wasting his time. I'd advise he at least get aftermarket runners that he can cut the divider down to reduce the 180 or weld some up to also reduce the 180 turn.
You have much to learn and I don't think it's gonna be an easy road LOL
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by BOOT77
I made a comment and YOU derailed this thread by quoting and engaging me, all you had to do was ignore my comment. That is the most absurd example/argument LOL
Chad Speier isn't made up, he ported a TPI on his FB, go ask him! The other guy I don't have permission to disclose.
It won't make a measurable difference other than lightening his wallet and wasting his time. I'd advise he at least get aftermarket runners that he can cut the divider down to reduce the 180 or weld some up to also reduce the 180 turn.
You have much to learn and I don't think it's gonna be an easy road LOL
I learned enough to know when to quit arguing with someone who still has yet to present a single fact- I also know the tpi is long dead as far as performance goes and only appreciated for originality and looks anymore but improvements can be made to the stock system. I've been driving third gens since they were new so...I've already been down the road and unlike you I don't have any friends on facebook who ported a TPI, I did it myself- so I only have real world experience as opposed to "my friend told me" And your original post was a "I knowitallandyoumightaswellnotbother" that garnered a reply.
Either way you've demonstrated your far superior knowledge of the TPI system and I accept defeat- please do not assault me with anymore of your information packed posts.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by GEN Xer
unlike you I don't have any friends on facebook who ported a TPI, I did it myself- so I only have real world experience as opposed to "my friend told me" And your original post was a "I knowitallandyoumightaswellnotbother" that garnered a reply.
Either way you've demonstrated your far superior knowledge of the TPI system and I accept defeat- please do not assault me with anymore of your information packed posts.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by BOOT77
Look under my name, not at my post count but when I joined. I've been over all these stuff long ago. I've gone thru the TPI upgrades, all I did was try to save the dude some time & money.
I ported my own 85 Trans Am TPI long ago, still got a 86 C4 Corvette with ported plenum/base and SLP ported runners, that I also ported. These days I know the REAL limits of TPI and have watched two experienced porters also figure this out, after I did.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by GEN Xer
No i don't maybe you can show me where I assumed anything? My last post was sarcastic- you're a complete D bag lol.
um.... I thought my quote of your post made it clear..... ok I'm not sure how to explain this in a way you can understand But I'll try.
Your post implied(assumed) that I had no exp with porting my own TPI and so I posted that I did and gave examples. My TA and C4 both TPI cars, do I need to post a video of my C4 to show it exist?
Also this is type(words) a forum post online, there is no sound, so sarcasm is kinda hard to follow unless you Really make it clear. Even if I can see it, some others may not know in the future when they read your replies.
I hope that helps and please let me know if I need to further clarify
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by BOOT77
um.... I thought my quote of your post made it clear..... ok I'm not sure how to explain this in a way you can understand But I'll try.
Your post implied(assumed) that I had no exp with porting my own TPI and so I posted that I did and gave examples. My TA and C4 both TPI cars, do I need to post a video of my C4 to show it exist?
Also this is type(words) a forum post online, there is no sound, so sarcasm is kinda hard to follow unless you Really make it clear. Even if I can see it, some others may not know in the future when they read your replies.
I hope that helps and please let me know if I need to further clarify
Simple question Boozo- have you got any data to back up anything you've posted here regarding the tpi runners? If so please present it- you know, put up or shut up.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
The picture you posted is the equivalent of a p trap with zero information included, once again- have you got any data to back up anything you've posted here regarding the tpi runners? If so please present it- you know, put up or shut up.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Wish I could be there when you realize LOL
Anyways.... if you need to have the last post to win in your mind, then let this be my last post.
Anyone else read my post, I've given my examples.
GL to the OP if you choose to use the larger ball-bearing. There are old post on here of others who did/tried some the larger ball mangled the tube. The trick use to be to use two smaller ones to hammer it back n forth thru I think.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Its not the 180 degree turn that prevents a TPI from running well upstairs. It is merely a function of runner length and resonance wave tuning effect. You could put 2" runners on it and it would still have the TPI like torque curve. Its when you siamse port the SLP runners that the power curve starts to shift upstairs. Short runners are why intakes like the LT1, Minram, Ramjet and single plane intakes run upstairs the way they do.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by BOOT77
If your trying to enlarge the runner for more flow, don't bother. It's not the tube size or length it's the 180 degree turn from plenum to base that stalls the flow. Look at aftermarket intakes like the superram, only a 90 deg turn/ half the tube.
Stock runners are more than adequate for the stock heads not only does the ball bearing method enlarge and remove the dents but you also remove the indents from the bolts at the bottom, I wouldn't be surprised if the enlarged/ported runners flow 220-230 cfm
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
Originally Posted by GEN Xer
No, I was just looking to fix the dent in my runners, not looking for fame and fortune, the before pic would look like a runner with a dent from a wrench in it, and the after pic would look like a runner with no dents lol. I could take a pic of them on the car if you'd like? Or I could take a picture of the set of ***** I used?
If you do have time can you measure the ***** with a micrometer or caliper, the final one i use is exactly 38mm, they are available in 38.5 and 39mm and different manufactures vary in tolerances.1-9/16 is almost at 40mm
tpis and as&m are a true 42mm through out but that runner is about a inch longer
Every other aftermarket runner is less than stock as the cast gets smaller I cant get a 38mm/1-1/2 ball through slp or accel gonna dig up some edlebrocks to check but I assume there the same cast as accel and they all have areas where the bolts make indents that bottle down to even less than 38mm
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
I shipped my runners off to a musical instrument repair guy - and he did a job working out all of the dents. He said the process worked well for him, just took time. He's charging me $200 FYI. I sent a note to him asking what ball size he used for this. I'll report back.
Last edited by RockStarEddie; 02-10-2023 at 07:52 AM.
Reason: adding info.
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
I just asked my instrument guy the sizes - He said he just used the small ball bearings and worked his way up.
In the past I would have attempted this myself, but in my old age I decided to hire this out - i have seen some disasters on this forum where opening the runners too much led to deflection in the angle of the mating surfaces. Also a lot of care needs to be taken to not damage the gasket surface as well.
Find a good reputable trumpet repair guy / gal - and spend the bux. My recommendation!
Re: TPI RUNNER DENT REPAIR USING BIGGER THAN 1-1/2 BALL BEARING
i bought the set of the ball bearings to repair dents in runners years ago. Yes it slightly increases the size but i believe they were more intended as a repair tool with a small perk. i had a set on my car to showcase the powdercoating, then i switched out to a set of SLP siamese runners. I could tell the difference right away but the difference from the stock to the undented was not a seat of the pants feel. The other noticable difference is in an aftermarket base or porting a stock one for better flow. I have since ditched the TPI and now run a stealthram but still have the SLP setup.
12-10-2022, 08:11 PM
