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305 tpi build up

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Old 03-04-2014, 03:07 PM
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305 tpi build up

hey guys I have a 305 tpi from an 87 bird that's going into my 91 Camaro. I plan on building it up before it goes in.

LT1 cam
Trickflow super 23 175 heads

that's all I got so far. any ideas?
Old 03-04-2014, 06:56 PM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Insay ditch the stock headers and the y pipe. Major restriction right there. Dyno Dons are said to be the best. The LT1 cam is decent. But don't expect the OMG feeling. Good luck man.
Old 03-04-2014, 07:16 PM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
any ideas?
Do a search.

Many 305 build threads to give you ideas
Like

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...azy-305-a.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...und-305-a.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ild-305-a.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ild-build.html
Old 03-05-2014, 07:11 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
any ideas?
Better intake, bigger cam...
Old 03-05-2014, 08:12 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Has anyone ever finished a 305 build here and posted results?
Old 03-05-2014, 08:18 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

The only reason I went with an lt1 cam is im not a fan of playing with the ecu
Old 03-05-2014, 08:22 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

You'll want to do ecu tuning for the heads and intake mods anyway to get most bang for your buck. 1100$ heads and leaving hp on table for 200$ in chip tuning stuff seems cutting yourself short to me. Its intimidating but a necessity in doing builds for these cars
Old 03-05-2014, 09:22 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Ok so if its necessary to do should I go bigger cam?
Old 03-05-2014, 09:26 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
hey guys I have a 305 tpi from an 87 bird that's going into my 91 Camaro. I plan on building it up before it goes in.

LT1 cam
Trickflow super 23 175 heads

that's all I got so far. any ideas?
here's an idea, make it a backyard flower pot and find a 350.

now before you say something, i've been where you are and everyone said get a 350, and i was like i'm not gonna listen, well i have a 305 TPI and wish i had gone with a 350, i could be making much more power with just the displacement.
Old 03-05-2014, 09:31 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
Ok so if its necessary to do should I go bigger cam?
Yes. Why buy heads if not gonna use them. That means intake mods to. Xfi 260 or 268 would be fun with a siamesed runner or stealth ram
Old 03-05-2014, 09:32 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Heres a question would anything have to be changed sensor wise for a 350
Old 03-05-2014, 09:38 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
Heres a question would anything have to be changed sensor wise for a 350
fuel injectors, memcal in ecu, knock sensor but if you find the right block it may have one.
Old 03-05-2014, 09:43 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

When u say memcal in the ecu. What do u mean?
Old 03-05-2014, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
When u say memcal in the ecu. What do u mean?
The "chip" that holds the program that ppl "tune" to make fuel injection work right on a EFI engine

91' firebird .. 305 TBI .030 over , balanced bottom end , speed pro hyper flattops , 10.6:1 CR , all ARP rod bolts and main studs , melling HV oil pump , trick flow super 23 175cc heads, Howards HR 214/218@.050 .488/.495 lift on 114 LSA , full roller 1.6 RR = .520/.528 lift , summit dual plane intake port matched , shorty headers into 2.5" Y w full 3" flow master system and 3" cutout in front of axle , msd billet dizzy, 620cfm TBI , custom CAI , tubular adjustabke LCA pan hard , umi torque arm wonder bar , BMR trans cross member , COMP engineering SFC's, disc rear w 4.10's, drilled an slotted rotors, EBL flash , VRFPR, WBO2,
Old 03-05-2014, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
hey guys I have a 305 tpi from an 87 bird that's going into my 91 Camaro. I plan on building it up before it goes in.

LT1 cam
Trickflow super 23 175 heads

that's all I got so far. any ideas?
That can is not gonna take advantage of the heads flow capabilities ... u will prolly be disapointed ... the heads stop flowing at .550 lift .. so something with a lift around .500 or a little more would b good IMO ... and u can still have good driveability with s decent can and a wide LSA like 114

91' firebird .. 305 TBI .030 over , balanced bottom end , speed pro hyper flattops , 10.6:1 CR , all ARP rod bolts and main studs , melling HV oil pump , trick flow super 23 175cc heads, Howards HR 214/218@.050 .488/.495 lift on 114 LSA , full roller 1.6 RR = .520/.528 lift , summit dual plane intake port matched , shorty headers into 2.5" Y w full 3" flow master system and 3" cutout in front of axle , msd billet dizzy, 620cfm TBI , custom CAI , tubular adjustabke LCA pan hard , umi torque arm wonder bar , BMR trans cross member , COMP engineering SFC's, disc rear w 4.10's, drilled an slotted rotors, EBL flash , VRFPR, WBO2,
Old 03-05-2014, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
Has anyone ever finished a 305 build here and posted results?
Me ... I don't have any numbers yet tracks will b open soon tho ... click my profile .. thread is
"Lo3 rebuild HP estimates"

91' firebird .. 305 TBI .030 over , balanced bottom end , speed pro hyper flattops , 10.6:1 CR , all ARP rod bolts and main studs , melling HV oil pump , trick flow super 23 175cc heads, Howards HR 214/218@.050 .488/.495 lift on 114 LSA , full roller 1.6 RR = .520/.528 lift , summit dual plane intake port matched , shorty headers into 2.5" Y w full 3" flow master system and 3" cutout in front of axle , msd billet dizzy, 620cfm TBI , custom CAI , tubular adjustabke LCA pan hard , umi torque arm wonder bar , BMR trans cross member , COMP engineering SFC's, disc rear w 4.10's, drilled an slotted rotors, EBL flash , VRFPR, WBO2,
Old 03-05-2014, 10:45 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Honesty I thought about a 350. But idk the 305 seemed alright for my intentions.
Old 03-05-2014, 04:26 PM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
the 305 seemed alright for my intentions.
Some thought needed

As already alluded to above ,it costs the same or less to build a 350 ( because less popular, some 305 parts are more expensive than 350 parts ) and straight away before mods you have more power because the engine is larger
Way more future potential as well
Old 03-05-2014, 04:37 PM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

If I go with the xfi 260 id have to use 1.5 rr right?
Old 03-05-2014, 05:22 PM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

If the springs are setup right it will do well with whatever rocker you use
Old 03-06-2014, 08:21 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Well enough people have told me the 305 vs 350. So I think im gonna abandon the 305 and go 350. Ill start a new thread for the 350
Old 03-06-2014, 09:28 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

You seem easily influenced. Why not just go LSX then, they're cheap enough nowadays, and have way more potential than a 350 SBC...
Old 03-06-2014, 09:48 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

I want to keep the tpi setup
Old 03-06-2014, 10:08 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
I want to keep the tpi setup...
Then you'll be choking the 350, either siamese the runners or get a better breathing intake...
Old 03-06-2014, 10:32 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Yea I know that. Idk too many people are telling me to trash the 305 and go a different route. I gotta think. In the end its my car.
Old 03-06-2014, 10:41 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
Yea I know that. Idk too many people are telling me to trash the 305 and go a different route. I gotta think. In the end its my car.
Bingo! Its your car, I am glad you said that! Check out my build thread for my turbo 305 in the power adder section, it will give you some ideas about what you can do with your heads, cam and stock TPI system...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/powe...ond-305-a.html
Old 03-06-2014, 11:07 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

So u like the 305 then?
Old 03-06-2014, 11:18 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
So u like the 305 then?
EBL-P4...
60-lb Injectors...
Turbo system of your choice...
3000 stall speed if auto...

... and your STOCK 305 will run easy 11's at 15-psi. What's not to like?
Old 03-06-2014, 11:41 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Idk turbos scare me just like ecu tuning. Im more conventional
Old 03-06-2014, 11:49 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
Idk turbos scare me just like ecu tuning. Im more conventional
Don't be afraid, you need to embrace it. RBob did an incredible job with the EBL-P4, and it comes with stock bins, and from there you just tell the system what size injectors your running, and your cubic inch displacement. It is super easy, and you live near all of us so we can help you all that you need. If you'd rather stick with natural aspiration, you will still need to learn how to tune, and it is very easy, especially with the EBL-P4 because it does the tuning for you. I highly recommend embracing the EBL-P4, mastering your tuning skills, then adding the upgrades to your engine as you go...
Old 03-06-2014, 12:05 PM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Gonna need some time to comprehend that.
Old 03-06-2014, 12:17 PM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Ok whats the EBL-P4
Old 03-06-2014, 12:33 PM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
Gonna need some time to comprehend that.
I will make it as easy as possible to understand. You need just the right amount of air, fuel and spark to make your engine run as efficiently as possible. Exactly how much air and fuel you are burning will tell you your potential in terms of horsepower. You need your fuel to burn efficiently in idle, part throttle and wide open throttle. There is really only one target air fuel ratio for all engines depending on the fuel they're running (pump gas, E85, race fuel, etc.), but all engines essentially have different needs depending on how they are built. Some engines run better a little leaner than others, while some engines run better running a little richer than others. What computers do, is they target a set (predetermined) air/fuel ratio electronically based on sensor information that is placed throughout the engine. This target will "sweep" back and forth trying to maintain the proper air/fuel ratio that the engine is happy with, and if it is a little off, it will correct itself by either adding fuel, or pulling fuel, again based on sensor information...

What we do as tuners, is we try to keep that correction as close to 0% as possible, as this in turn will give us a more efficient burn, which is what we're after. Once you start adding things like a larger cam, better breathing intake, etc, the computer system, although still controlling the air/fuel ratio, is having a harder time maintaining the correct average ratio because you made it harder for it to be able to. So let's say for example the computer was able to keep a 1% correction average throughout running the stock TPI engine. After your mods (allowing for more air), the computer is now correcting an even larger percentage, and although it is able to, it can only correct for so much, and its usually only up to 6% correction. Once you exceed that, you are either running too rich, or too lean, resulting in poor engine performance because the computer is left chasing its' own tale. So that is what we do as tuners. When a mechanical enhancement is made that brings in more air, we go into the computer and add fuel to bring it back as close to 0% correction as possible. The technical terms and acronyms we use for doing so you will get used to as you go...
Old 03-06-2014, 12:39 PM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
Ok whats the EBL-P4...
Bob Rauscher created it for us, it replaced our chip/prom systems with flash...

http://www.dynamicefi.com
Old 03-06-2014, 12:41 PM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

So ebl-p4 is a tuner.
Old 03-06-2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
So u like the 305 then?
U can also check my build thread
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...s.html?styleid

91' firebird .. 305 TBI .030 over , balanced bottom end , speed pro hyper flattops , 10.6:1 CR , all ARP rod bolts and main studs , melling HV oil pump , trick flow super 23 175cc heads, Howards HR 214/218@.050 .488/.495 lift on 114 LSA , full roller 1.6 RR = .520/.528 lift , summit dual plane intake port matched , shorty headers into 2.5" Y w full 3" flow master system and 3" cutout in front of axle , msd billet dizzy, 620cfm TBI , custom CAI , tubular adjustabke LCA pan hard , umi torque arm wonder bar , BMR trans cross member , COMP engineering SFC's, disc rear w 4.10's, drilled an slotted rotors, EBL flash , VRFPR, WBO2,
Old 03-06-2014, 12:51 PM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
So ebl-p4 is a tuner.
EBL-P4 is a custom ECM that replaces your stock ECM, and connects to your stock wiring. It converts your stock ECM with its chips into a stock ECM that is flash based like the newer OBII vehicles. Your the tuner. Tuning is the first thing that members should be mastering, and you have the best of the best on this website here to help you. You'd be surprised how much power was left on the table with the stock prom, as that alone would make a huge difference in power without adding anything mechanically just yet...
Old 03-06-2014, 12:53 PM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Where can I buy this animal?
Old 03-06-2014, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
So ebl-p4 is a tuner.
Yes the ebl is an aftermarket ECU that is flash programmable and has much higher resolution tables that the stock ecu .. it has a USB cable that plugs into a laptop and can hold 8 different bins or tunes ... u use tuner pro software on ur laptop to actually change the engine parameters or tune the engine ... I had ZERO tunning knowledge before I bought the ebl ... and it is 99% plug and play .. so NO rewiring! AS IS THE CASE with other flash programmable aftermarket ECU's and ebl is about half the price as the others like megasquirt

91' firebird .. 305 TBI .030 over , balanced bottom end , speed pro hyper flattops , 10.6:1 CR , all ARP rod bolts and main studs , melling HV oil pump , trick flow super 23 175cc heads, Howards HR 214/218@.050 .488/.495 lift on 114 LSA , full roller 1.6 RR = .520/.528 lift , summit dual plane intake port matched , shorty headers into 2.5" Y w full 3" flow master system and 3" cutout in front of axle , msd billet dizzy, 620cfm TBI , custom CAI , tubular adjustabke LCA pan hard , umi torque arm wonder bar , BMR trans cross member , COMP engineering SFC's, disc rear w 4.10's, drilled an slotted rotors, EBL flash , VRFPR, WBO2,
Old 03-06-2014, 12:58 PM
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Car: 1991 firebird
Engine: TBI 305 (built)
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Originally Posted by Street Lethal

EBL-P4 is a custom ECM that replaces your stock ECM, and connects to your stock wiring. It converts your stock ECM with its chips into a stock ECM that is flash based like the newer OBII vehicles. Your the tuner. Tuning is the first thing that members should be mastering, and you have the best of the best on this website here to help you. You'd be surprised how much power was left on the table with the stock prom, as that alone would make a huge difference in power without adding anything mechanically just yet...
I was typing the same time u were just got a phone call so u got done before me lol

91' firebird .. 305 TBI .030 over , balanced bottom end , speed pro hyper flattops , 10.6:1 CR , all ARP rod bolts and main studs , melling HV oil pump , trick flow super 23 175cc heads, Howards HR 214/218@.050 .488/.495 lift on 114 LSA , full roller 1.6 RR = .520/.528 lift , summit dual plane intake port matched , shorty headers into 2.5" Y w full 3" flow master system and 3" cutout in front of axle , msd billet dizzy, 620cfm TBI , custom CAI , tubular adjustabke LCA pan hard , umi torque arm wonder bar , BMR trans cross member , COMP engineering SFC's, disc rear w 4.10's, drilled an slotted rotors, EBL flash , VRFPR, WBO2,
Old 03-06-2014, 12:59 PM
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Car: 1991 firebird
Engine: TBI 305 (built)
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Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
Where can I buy this animal?
DynamicEFI.com

91' firebird .. 305 TBI .030 over , balanced bottom end , speed pro hyper flattops , 10.6:1 CR , all ARP rod bolts and main studs , melling HV oil pump , trick flow super 23 175cc heads, Howards HR 214/218@.050 .488/.495 lift on 114 LSA , full roller 1.6 RR = .520/.528 lift , summit dual plane intake port matched , shorty headers into 2.5" Y w full 3" flow master system and 3" cutout in front of axle , msd billet dizzy, 620cfm TBI , custom CAI , tubular adjustabke LCA pan hard , umi torque arm wonder bar , BMR trans cross member , COMP engineering SFC's, disc rear w 4.10's, drilled an slotted rotors, EBL flash , VRFPR, WBO2,
Old 03-06-2014, 01:06 PM
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Car: 85 iroc z, 03 ram 1500
Engine: 305 tpi, 287
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Axle/Gears: 3.42, 3.55s
Re: 305 tpi build up

Ill have to looking to this. Being as im most likely keeping the 305 now
Old 03-06-2014, 01:36 PM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Ok so whats the best way as far as installation?
Old 03-06-2014, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
Ok so whats the best way as far as installation?
? Uh .. U pull the factory computer out and put the new one in.

91' firebird .. 305 TBI .030 over , balanced bottom end , speed pro hyper flattops , 10.6:1 CR , all ARP rod bolts and main studs , melling HV oil pump , trick flow super 23 175cc heads, Howards HR 214/218@.050 .488/.495 lift on 114 LSA , full roller 1.6 RR = .520/.528 lift , summit dual plane intake port matched , shorty headers into 2.5" Y w full 3" flow master system and 3" cutout in front of axle , msd billet dizzy, 620cfm TBI , custom CAI , tubular adjustabke LCA pan hard , umi torque arm wonder bar , BMR trans cross member , COMP engineering SFC's, disc rear w 4.10's, drilled an slotted rotors, EBL flash , VRFPR, WBO2,
Old 03-06-2014, 04:04 PM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

from what I saw on the site it said about installing it in the old computer
Old 03-07-2014, 11:23 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

On the site it says about sending the computer to have it done or doing it yourself? so I feel stupid now. just looked at the site again and realized I was looking at the wrong one.

Last edited by 91 rally sport; 03-07-2014 at 04:15 PM.
Old 03-08-2014, 07:23 AM
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Car: 1986 Camaro SC
Engine: 305 TPI Procharged D1SC
Transmission: Tremec TKO-600
Axle/Gears: Moser 12 Bolt 3.73 posi
Re: 305 tpi build up

Originally Posted by Street Lethal
EBL-P4...
60-lb Injectors...
Turbo system of your choice...
3000 stall speed if auto...

... and your STOCK 305 will run easy 11's at 15-psi. What's not to like?
are you running 11's? how? my 305 doesn't run 11's and you'll make more power with a 350 which is why i regret doing the 305 while it was out instead of starting with a 350.
Old 03-08-2014, 08:40 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Originally Posted by 86Z
are you running 11's?
I ran 11's two years ago with less mods than I am running now. I am shooting for nines now, and once the weather subsides it is back to the track for some videos and results...

Originally Posted by 86Z
how?
What do you mean how? My old setup made a little over 400-RWHP at close to 15 pounds of boost, my sixty foot was in the high 1.6x range, but I was capped at 30-lb injectors and they were going static. No methanol to compensate, and no MAF translator, my best run was 11.5 @ 117 running drag radials, TCI stall, T76 turbo, some light porting on 882 heads (1.94" valve), and a 218/218 Lunati camshaft...

Originally Posted by 86Z
my 305 doesn't run 11's...
Then your clearly doing something wrong. Not to mention, you say this without giving me your trap speed. If your trapping over 110 then you should be running 11's with a good launch, or close to them with a decent launch. What is your trap? How much power are you making? How much boost? Lets not forget that your limited to a pulley, and are subjected to RPM boost just like my C4 is. Your also limited to your launch running manual, as you need to baby it out of the hole. Turbo's are a different animal, they don't stop spinning which is why they need to be regulated, not to mention the size of the turbo being used in itself making a tremendous difference...

You'll make more power with a 350? So what? What good is dyno power when it only takes x amount of power to run in the 7's with a Buick V6 with smaller heads, smaller cam, and two less cubes than a 350 as well as a 305? Clearly you are doing something wrong if you can't break into the 11's with your V8. Why not pulley up your DISC, slap a wastegate on the cold side, and run the same amount of boost you are running now and SEE the difference it makes because now suddenly your supercharger is acting like a turbo. In your datalogs, how much fuel are you consuming, as that will immediately give your projected horsepower right there, give us your trap and vehicle weight too...

Do you think the owner of this street driven GN really cares if a 350 makes more on the dyno? Come on now, that is old fashioned thinking. You choose to abandon the 305, while this right here is why I chose to stick with the 305. The 305 is considered "big block" territory in the land of Buick V6's, as a big intake valve to them is 1.90"...

Old 03-08-2014, 09:02 AM
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Re: 305 tpi build up

Originally Posted by 91 rally sport
On the site it says about sending the computer to have it done or doing it yourself? so I feel stupid now. just looked at the site again and realized I was looking at the wrong one.
RBob is a moderator on this website, and he is also the creator of the EBL-P4 and wrote all of the firmware. There is a thread going in the DIY section with all of the new users chiming in with questions, and after a few days they are experts because learning about it is super easy. The system literally took me minutes to install into the stock '7730 harness, and I even posted pictures on how to do it in my build thread. Very easy. Once I told the EBL-P4 my injector and engine size, the engine ran like a top the moment it first started, and the VE learn dialed me in close to 0% correction after a few drives around the area. The system truly is incredible, and once you have an understanding of tuning then whatever you throw at the engine; big cam, heads, intake, exhaust, power adder, etc, you'll be able to tune for within in a matter of minutes through a USB connection from your laptop to the EBL-P4...
Old 03-08-2014, 02:50 PM
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Car: 1986 Camaro SC
Engine: 305 TPI Procharged D1SC
Transmission: Tremec TKO-600
Axle/Gears: Moser 12 Bolt 3.73 posi
Re: 305 tpi build up

Originally Posted by Street Lethal
I ran 11's two years ago with less mods than I am running now. I am shooting for nines now, and once the weather subsides it is back to the track for some videos and results...



What do you mean how? My old setup made a little over 400-RWHP at close to 15 pounds of boost, my sixty foot was in the high 1.6x range, but I was capped at 30-lb injectors and they were going static. No methanol to compensate, and no MAF translator, my best run was 11.5 @ 117 running drag radials, TCI stall, T76 turbo, some light porting on 882 heads (1.94" valve), and a 218/218 Lunati camshaft...



Then your clearly doing something wrong. Not to mention, you say this without giving me your trap speed. If your trapping over 110 then you should be running 11's with a good launch, or close to them with a decent launch. What is your trap? How much power are you making? How much boost? Lets not forget that your limited to a pulley, and are subjected to RPM boost just like my C4 is. Your also limited to your launch running manual, as you need to baby it out of the hole. Turbo's are a different animal, they don't stop spinning which is why they need to be regulated, not to mention the size of the turbo being used in itself making a tremendous difference...

You'll make more power with a 350? So what? What good is dyno power when it only takes x amount of power to run in the 7's with a Buick V6 with smaller heads, smaller cam, and two less cubes than a 350 as well as a 305? Clearly you are doing something wrong if you can't break into the 11's with your V8. Why not pulley up your DISC, slap a wastegate on the cold side, and run the same amount of boost you are running now and SEE the difference it makes because now suddenly your supercharger is acting like a turbo. In your datalogs, how much fuel are you consuming, as that will immediately give your projected horsepower right there, give us your trap and vehicle weight too...

Do you think the owner of this street driven GN really cares if a 350 makes more on the dyno? Come on now, that is old fashioned thinking. You choose to abandon the 305, while this right here is why I chose to stick with the 305. The 305 is considered "big block" territory in the land of Buick V6's, as a big intake valve to them is 1.90"...

i haven't been to the track in forever, last time i was there with drag radials, i don't have the slip in front of me i babied it on the launch, heck i don't even know what i launched at, 1st time there, adrenaline was running i did a 12.64 at 110.xx mph with a 1.79 60' i made 381hp and 420 ft/lbs on the dyno with 14lbs max, i don't know the weight of the car. maybe it is good for 11's the bottom end is stock, i don't want to up the boost and grenade it


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