Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Today I went to my local (Dutch) Bosch retailer, to find out if they can get me a new maf sensor for my '88 Firebird 350 V-8 with TPI.
The current, original one is made by Bosch USA part # 0280213009.
Well, they can get it to my country, it costs:.......about $1400!!! that's right fourteen hundred US Dollars...can you believe that...???

Is the MAF still available new and GM original in the US?
Does anyone know a price for it?
And does anybody has a GM part number for it, so I can look for a new one, when we visit Florida next summer....!!
Or maybe there are other non GM maf sensors that will work on a original 350 V-8 TPI ?
I just want to have a spare one, just in case....

Thanks in advance from Holland!!

New2Chevy

iTrader: (11)

Here's one http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/ma...owsensors.aspx

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

I checked at GM dealer a few weeks back when I was looking for a MAF. $1950 Cdn. I almost sh*t myself.

I bought the Granatelli MAF replacement for I think $300 US. They're readily available from most performance retailers.

There's one for sale here....

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...tpis-afpr.html

Guest

Forget about getting a new GM sensor. Get a reman/rebuilt or one of the Microtech/Wells.

gurkgurkgurk

theres a guy on the classified boards selling his granatelli adjustable MAF for i think 200 bucks. you should ask him if he can ship it to your country. even if its like 100 dollars to ship, its a hell of alot cheaper than 1400.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

I already contacted Hawk's, and the shipping costs are only $40, and because of the low US Dollar compared to our Euro, the Granatelli MAF is very inexpensive for me.....about 5,5X cheaper than the original Bosch MAF overhere...!
Btw how's the quality of the Granatelli MAF, and what about the adjustment ( I don't really need that, do I ??).
And what about that Microtech/Well's MAF, do they have a website?

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

That's not a bad deal on shipping. Might take awhile if they send it by a slow boat! :-)

The quality is good. As good as a Bosch I think. The adjustment is for changing the air/fuel mixture on a modified car. It's preset for a stock engine configuration. If your car is basically stock and you're not trying to tune the computer you likely won't use that feature. Just leave it alone.

I was never able to find any websites or info on either.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, very usefull information!

Does this Granatelli MAF use a heated wire, like the original Bosch does?
If so, does the burn off mode (super heating the wire) works on the Granatelli MAF as well?
On the Granatelli web site, they don't list it anymore, does this mean they are no longer made? (are they Italian btw?)

And one the Hawk's website, there are some claims about the Granatelli MAF: power gains, more drivability, more HP, improved mileage, 60% more airflow etc. etc., what do you think about that, I mean, I just want a (spare) replacement for the stock MAF, but this all seems to good to be true....???

BTW, they ship it USPS Priority....

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

No I don't believe so. See pic...



I believe it still serves the same function as far as I can tell.

That's quite possible. I don't know.

It's been my experience that if it sounds too good to be true it usually is. If it was as good as they claim I'd by two of them. I can say when I put mine on there was a definitely noticeable improvement in performance. Exactly how much I can't say.

For a spare and the price it would be a good choice unless you want to keep your eyes open for an OEM MAF to happen along sometime. To get the best deal sometimes you just have to be in the right place at the right time with cash in your hand.

In my humble opinion its a little too much to spend ($300+ USD) just to have a spare part I may not need, ever.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Well, those MAF sensors can go wrong...
Anyway, thanks again, I will call them next week to order one, it will be on my car next season, though....!

joeld

Here is a link to Wells MAF
Joel

http://www.e-webcatalog.com/wells/ecatalog.aspx

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Well, I did some research on the internet, and this (Andy) Granatelli is a F-body speed guru!
He has build a 220 mph street legal Pontiac Firebird back in 1984.......
I just got to have this Granatelli MAF sensor, I now think the performance claims are true...!!

V6F1R3BRD

One word. Ebay.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Didn't find it there, can you..??

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

The Granatelli MAF sensor is on the car since yesterday, and I don't like it at all....!!
Code 33 all the time, have to clear/reset the ECU many times a day, it's no fun...!!
Car runs fine, pulls strong, but only for a ( very) short time, than suddenly power drops, car hesitates, and....code 33...!!

Guest

I'm not surprised. Have not really heard anything good about that MAF. Dunno what it is Granatelli did to those things, but...

Anyway, the code 33 in and of itself is fairly common even with a stock MAF. I really think that GM set the threshold too low. Do you have access to any prom burning software and equipment? Its the best way to deal with that, and then maybe we could determine if anything else bad is going on.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

try cleaning the inside of the wiring harness connector. Usually the metal gets corroded and the conntact on bare metal is severely compromized. I had a P.I.T.A. code 33 too for about 5 months. I was told to cut and replace the connecter but I didnt have the money to buy the $15 dollar piece. So what I did was I whipped out my little jewelers screwdriver set and inserted the the size that would fit inside the female peice of the connector. Then I did thee ol' tornado twister on each of the 5 female holes on the wired connector. I then reconnected, jumped in the IROC and what do you know, SES light turned off. I disconnected the battery for about one minute, reconnected, turned on the IROC and drove around and ever since, no code 33. Its been around 9 months and the pesky light has never turned on agian.

Jewelers screwdriver set.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

No. I don't have access to that software I'm afraid.
With the original Bosch MAF I NEVER got code 33.... ( sometimes code 36, MAF burn of cycle, but that's another story...).
So I don't think something else but the Granatelli MAF causes code 33....!

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, I will give it a try..!

sharkbait

Corrossion cleaning tip: A short acid bath does wonders for cleaning metal. Take some chrome wheel cleaner, pour/spray into a glass until you have enough to submerge connector. Dip it in the bath for a couple of minutes. Remove and spray clean with an electric connections cleaner (available at parts stores). I had an old gauge cluster where all of the bulb sockets were corroded and not working. A few minutes of soaking and every last one was restored to fully functional.

89fbirdformula

Put a stock replacement maf on the thing, and toss that granatelli junk in the garbage, i cannot beleive there are members on this forum who are recomending it..but like usual, tons of members here recomend things that they have NO experience with...

Firedutchbird, if you need a genuine GM maf let me know, i have one, and ill ship it to ya.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

FOR FREE? Just kidding.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Both methods would work but I would prefer my method since inserting a object such as a tiny screwdriver and twist, would strip away the corrosion and expose bare metal which is by far the best cleaning. Another suggestion that I recommend is using some "die-electric grease."

89fbirdformula

if he needs it, sure, just pay the shipping.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

WOW!!!!!! 89fbirdformula, you have got to be THEE ONLY generous person that I have met here in TGO, other than my bro-n-law (gave me the 86 IROC as a wedding gift). I cant believe that your willing to give away the MAF Sensor for free. Now that's what I call a kind hearted man.

89fbirdformula

Im always willing to help anyone out, be it here on the forums, or in person..everyone who knows me will attest to that.

i wont be needing the maf's anyways, id rather see them help someone out, then sit in my garage like they have for the last year or so.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Your a good man 89fbirdformula. Dont let anyone tell you different. If you ever decide to throw something away, let me know. I may need something.

89fbirdformula

i have some serpentine brackets, and an old but good PS pump for serp setup...uhm..i have tons of crap i gotta get rid of haha.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

89fbirdformula, I'll send you a PM...

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=Chevy86 IROC-Z Another suggestion that I recommend is using some "die-electric grease."[/QUOTE]

Were do you put that die-electric grease, directly on the contacts..?

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Put a bead or dot on each male and female pin. It'll help resist corrosion and help resist moisture on the metal to metal contact.

burnout88

I had that thing and it was a piece of junk!! Does not surpise me. I had the same thing happen and returned it. Just get a rebuilt one from Autozone or have Hawks get you a rebuilt one. I can not believe forum members recommended that thing to you.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

OK, I cleaned the connections to the MAF, put die-electric grease on it, problem persists....!!

I found this company that actually makes the Granatelli MAF, they just switch the stickers on it, so it's basically a Micro-Tech MAF...

http://www.micro-tech-auto.com/mt/maf.html

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Ok. That was the easy method to a possible fix. Tonight I will post up a page that will help you troubleshoot that dang T.C.

Guest

I had no idea Microtech was making that garbage adjustable unit.

You might want to go through the IAC and TPS setting procedures, see if that provides any cure for it. I dont know how that thing is supposed to be "adjusted" exactly either, but if its out of calibration for the stock code in the ecm its going to cause all kinds of issues especially the code 33. Did they include anything on how to adjust that POS?

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

A code 33 is just that, code 33. It has nothing to do with the IAC or the TPS. If you follow this link that I will provide, it'll walk you through the steps to nail that code 33. You cant go wrong. Now read the both sheets and notice that it says nothing about troubleshooting the IAC or TPS. These 2 peices are'nt relavent to a code 33 according to GM....
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...uble-code.html

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

OK, |'ll try to find something.
I noticed that code 33 is (among others), related to the MAF burn of relay?
Granatelli told me replacing the burn of relay for a new one was a must when mounting their MAF...( nothing about that on their site...nor in the sheet with instructions...)
Microtech told me yesterday, this MAF is only designed for highly tuned engines....( my car is stock...).
Anyway, I got code 36 often with the old Bosch maf, on of the reasons to replace it with the Granatelli MAF, hoping to get code 36 to disapear...instead I got both 33 AND 36.....!
BTW Microtech told me code 33 indicates a higher than expected airflow at the sensor...??

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

What if the calibration of the MAF is different from stock MAF?
The ECM expects to see a certain airflow at certain conditions of
throttle opening (TPS ) and RPM

Code 33 will be set if MAF gets burn off signal while engine running
Code 33 will be set when the ECM sees air flow greater than 45 gm / sec ( above 2.2V ) for one second
on startup
or when less than 1/2 throttle and less than 2000 rpm.


The MAF could be " indicating " greater than 45 gm/ sec flow under these conditions

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

It apparently is...
But before turning the adjust screw at the Granatelli MAF, what will happen IF I turn this adjustment screw, and in what direction should I turn it..??

Guest

Keep telling yourself that, maybe it will come true.

I noticed you have not posted the requirements for a code 33 to be set, so let me put them here and highlight it for you:

Absolutely, TPS a complete non factor in setting a code 33.

The following attachment is something I've had since 93 or 94, its a GM bulletin. At one time I posted it here (as text), but it was around 99 or 2000 and is no longer available by searching:

Guest

Thats just a load of garbage they told you, except the very last line.

A code 36 is for the MAF burnoff circuit. Back when Wells Mfg was selling this MAF, some people had issues with getting a code 36. Replacing the burn off relay is going to do exactly nothing to cure the code 33 problem you're having. A more likely issue on most of the cars that I've worked on that had a code 33 issue was a MAF power relay issue, or a problem with the TPS. That said, as I said before, GM set the bar awfully low and that 45 gm/s mentioned above is an easy way to get a code 33 from even a stock engine. If this is changed in the chip to, say, 60 gm/s you'll never see the code unless something is really wrong.

Only designed for highly tuned engines.
I'd say its more like Microtech has no idea what they're doing and they screwed up the output signal installing that "adjustment screw" on the thing. All I can think of to suggest is to tap into the MAF signal wire, and read the voltage with a volt/ohm meter and see which way the voltage goes with the screw setting. If you search for Vader and MAF, somewhere in there he lists some of the voltages that will be of interest to you and will steer you in the right direction instead of following a flowchart that ignores the conditions that are required to happen before you get a code 33 set in the ecm.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

OK, thanks for your input sofar.
Both Granatelli and Microtech are not answering my questions about this MAF......!!
So I'm pretty much on my own here, just a few USA car specialists in this country, and they are far away from where I live.
I've been thinking, if code 33 is set by an "unexpected high airflow at the MAF" according to Microtech, does this mean the MAF is adjusted to lean?
The Granatelli sheet with instructions for this MAF says that turning the adjustment screw clockwise, it increases the output, (rich) and counterclockwise Will lean the mixture.
As I have no laptop all I can do is adjust the screw like half a turn, take the car for a drive, and see what happens.
What do you guys think?

Guest

If turning the screw counterclockwise is to decrease the "output" (I'm assuming voltage) then that is what you want to do. A lower voltage=lower MAF gm/s reading as interpreted by the ECM, so if its reading 46 gm/s and setting a code, reducing the volts will lower that gm/s to... lets hope 44 or less... and it will run ok. I have little faith, because of the number of problems reported in those adjustable pieces of garbage. Thats why Microtech and Granatelli arent responding. Not much they can offer.

From my ARAP hac, 2.1V is 44.5 gm/s, and 2.19V is 47.7 gm/s so you would need to be able to adjust the volts down, say, a minimum of 0.1V (2.01V is 40.7 gm/s). I hope they offered at least that much range of adjustment, and its not overly high to begin with (probably is).

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Thanks.
This is what the sheet says:
7. Performance & Drivability Calibration-The built in adjustment screw is designed to control the signal ( frequency) output of the Mass Airflow Sensor.
Clockwise increases the output ( rich) and counter-clockwise decreases output ( lean).
No two engines have the same appetite for fuel so final results have a direct bearing on the modifications performed on the individual engine.
Once "dialed" in you will notice smoother idle characteristics and improved A/F under full throttle.

Guest

Now I'm scared. Frequency? Ugh.
I'd stick with trying to turn it down, thats going to report lower airflow, and should lower the fueling making it act lean (as if) and then maybe you wont get a high airflow vs tps issue anymore.

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

OK, I'll mark the present setting and will try half turns both ways to see what happens.
Let's hope for some decent weather overhere, it's already fall with lot's of rain, fallen leafs, mud on the road etc. and I don't like to test the car under slippery conditions...!

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

Well, I did several testdrives this evening.
Started with 1/4 turn counterclockwise, code 33 within minutes...
1/2 and 3/4 turns were better, could drive the car for many miles without codes, but both times, just when i reached home....code 33 again.
Now I have turned the adjustment screw one turn out, but it's already dark overhere, so no more tests today.
I noticed something else, the left cooling fan doesn't come on....!
The right one does, and no matter how long I let the car idle, the right one cycles on and of, the left just stays like it is...(the heather is working fine.)
Is this just coincidence, or is it working someway together with the MAF....???

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

There is no relation with the fans wiring and the MAF Sensors wiring, other than they are connected to a power source (battery). I think the problem is with that MAF sensor. Why would a company make an adjustable one when the ECM is already self adjusting? I think there was lost money with that MAF sensor. The OEM MAF and the ECM work together. There is no reason to change that relation unless youve got extensive huge modifications. Besides, that type of equiptment should be left to the DYNO shops, not the regular "Joe."

Fire"Dutch"Bird

iTrader: (1)

OK, the Bosch MAF is back on.
The Granatelli MAF is a big disappointment, although they advertise it as calibrated for stock engines, it apparently isn't.
Are there places that sell good quality, remanufactured Bosch MAF sensors?
I like to have a spare one, just in case.
Thanks for all your help and input.

(Now al I have to do is find the reason why the driversside fan is not working.....!!)

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

The only place near you to get a reman Bosch MAF sensor would be the parts store such as Autozone ect. You can't buy from Bosch directly because they only sell to commercial buisnesses and in quantities (wholesale). As for the fan, maby your fan turn on switch it bad. Its usually found in the passengerside head. You should check continuity between the fan turn on switch and the fan. It would be wise to check continuity between the coolant temp sensor and the ECM too. Then check continuity between the ECM and the fan. Sometimes the weatherpack connectors fail to keep out moisture and the metal to metal contact is compromised. You may need to do a search of your type of wiring harness for your car so that you can use the color coded diagram. Good luck bro.