Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Hey, I noticed a ways back in your thread you said you were having issues finding a good donut gasket for your Edelbrock headers. A long time ago I was going to run the TES headers on mine, and one of the members here recommended these donut gaskets from Napa. Part#F7139. They're an exact fit to the TES collectors(I personally checked the fit on mine), and the really nice thing about them is that they're aluminized! It might not actually be aluminized, but they have some sort of metal coating on them, and the guy who recommended them to me said they last WAY longer than the regular donut gaskets. He said he'd burned out several pairs of standard donuts, but hadn't had to replace them again after putting the coated Napa ones on. Just thought you might appreciate the tip. Btw, I think the letter F in the part# designates that they're for some Ford application, but they fit the 3rd gen TES headers perfect! I ended up putting coated Hooker 2055's on mine, so no need for any gasket at the collector now.

1987CamaroZ28

Thanks very much, I just may pick these up!

RobGT

First and foremost, my hat is off to you my friend! I think building the 305 is well worth it, and I have some words of encouragement for anyone who is doing this or even thinking about it. I have been into the modular mustangs for the past 5 years, owning a 97 Cobra (4.6 4v) and a 98 GT with a PI swap (4.6 2v). The 4.6 is a 3.53" bore with a 3.54" stroke, making it 281 ci. Yes, its got 2 cams (GT) but that doesnt mean anything. The 4.6's have been able to get 320 REAR WHEEL HP with STOCK heads using valves that are a-lot smaller with just bolt ons and cams and over 450 flywheel HP using trickflows! Point being I see NO reason NOT to build a 305 which is something with more bore! The 4v D heads can get as much as 300cfm and they can make over 500hp all motor. Granted this is apples to oranges but the fact still remains, you CAN make smaller motors perform. I recently SOLD the 98 GT and bought another 3rd gen - A 1985 Z28 with an Lb9/700r4 that has 105,000 original miles and its MINT. I now know once I am ready to build it (after some miles), I have faith in the 305 and I cannot express how important it is for HIGH RPM when doing something like this. I WILL spend the extra money on forged parts, and most likely use the Vortec or TFS head with the intake being the hard part (to make rev.) Not to start a debate on modular vs pushrod or Ford vs Chevy or OLD vs New, but, its obviously CLEAR the mentality is the same, being an able underdog and still having fun. If I have ANY advise for you its this.. RPM in small high performance engines is KEY IMHO. If you rev it, it will run. I would love to see a girdled, forged, solid roller EFI 305 that has manners. Low RPM is fine for boost, but I would have a blower cam. Keep up the good work!! and - its good to be back in a thirdgen, my all time fav car!

1987CamaroZ28

hey! thanks for the encouraging words. It's nice to see others take an interest in the underdog. That's what I kept thinking, there's lots of small cubic inch engines putting out great power. Why should i bother going to a 350... look at the 231 v6 buick.. sure it's boosted, but so are lots of engines.. that was and still is a very respected HEAVY car. I don't hear people overwhelmingly saying you have to drop the 3.8 and swap in a 4.3. Well, there's lots of ways to look at this and how you want to look at it, is what important. When my 305 gets tired, i plan to get it rebuilt with splayed 4 bolt mains with forged rods and pistons so i can let the D1 work. I'll stick with those TFS heads since they were a heavy investment. I'm just now putting on my new Wilwood brakes. I sold my last set in place of their new design that doesn't have the crazy offset that they used to.

1987CamaroZ28

Here are some more. I upgraded my brake kit...

nick55

I am taking up this challenge as well, its kinda like play the hand you were dealt.

Has anyone tried the GM Perormance cam? I mean they built the dang thing you figure they would know how to make it run better, right?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Which GMPP cam?

nick55

I am thinking of the #10185071. I dont have heads or lifters or an intake manifold yet. I am going to run TPI but the factory one was damaged on disassembly, I am open to suggestion on those as well. I am hoping on learning from someone else's experiences instead of sales pitches...

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Arg...

I suppose that it's about one step more aggressive than the stock TPI cam... Not that I think that cam (the zz4) or the LT4 hot cam are anywhere near as good as the number of people running them would suggest. I don't know what your final goals are with this thing or your whole combination, but I can't imagine one that I would actually pick that cam over something else.

nick55

What would you recomend?

The only reason I was going with the gmpp was the price given was $120, turns out he looked up the wrong part.

Anyone running a Howards?

ASE doc

I have the SLP headers. They come in 1 5/8 & 1 3/4". Theyre made from 403 stainless so they dont rust and fall apart. Mine are 11 years old and still in great shape.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

That depends on the combination and where you're going with it. I'm considering running an XFI280 in my current 305 project (though I'm having a hard time justifying spending another $300 on a cam if I have just a slightly smaller custom ground cam with XE lobes sitting around that doesn't have a home)

Nelz

Update?

Nater36

what did you use to polish the chambers and exhaust ports? I should be receiving my trickflow heads by the end of this week

TxTtopZ

Considering I dont care what people think I am going to let loose. I_LIKE_the 305. I like the underdog, especially with these cars. I have to stay very street able. Since HP will be limited to somewhere around 300, I think it would be preferable if I could do it with a 305 considering the TPI. With the 305 the HP and TQ peaks a little later and really suggests what GM was after. Now, I have researched 305 topics and practically read every post google suggests under every 305 keyword I can think of, as well as made a 305 thread in 3 other forums which gets heated every time. My argument is that the TPI set-up in stock form can be better utilized by a 305. I stand by that still. If there were more information out there, I would rebuild the 305 in my Z and save the 350 for another car. I will be pullin for ya, please get it on the dyno!

Now, some words for anyone wanting to build a 305:
The BEST 305 builds I have seen to this date involve the 062 Vortec head. This includes the "Hate Me" and "Mission 305" car mag. articles. I honestly think there is a valid point to that and it's got to do with velocity. Now, I feel with the smaller bore of a 305 the velocity stays higher because it stalls less when it hits the cylinder. This is pure speculation but in a way it makes sense. The next tip is camshaft, I would concentrate on the way it works with TPI and NOT the way you think it's supposed to rev. The 305 is already going to feel a little more radical given a certain cam than with the 350. XFI 260 and XE256 are my fav. picks. They both utilize a higher cylinder pressure (dynamic) than the bigger cams thus making the engine seem bigger than it is. That coupled with the TQ TPI is known for and the velocity of the vortec heads would make a killer ride.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

I'm not saying that the TPI 305 is a bad motor or that it cant be made into a strong decent running small block... but I'd put my TPI 350 against any N/A TPI 305 (destroked 400's don't count) and I'd put money on my setup in a race every time.

I get the whole dare to be different or look at what I did with a 305 thing.. but if you are going to spend the money on heads and a cam, you'll be alot faster with putting those parts on a 350 block (which can be had for dirt cheap), you may spend even less building a 350.

I hope you guys make 1,000 HP with your 305 builds, but if you want to stay naturally aspirated, there's no replacement for displacement.

cIaRmOaCrZo

wow, im subscribing.. because this is EXACTLY what iv wanted to do with my 86 (build up the lb9)!!! but......everyone and theyr brothers just made fun of that idea and kept telin me thats just a wast of money...cuz i LOVE the sound an 8cylinder engine that is SMALL displacement. idk why, they just sound amazing!! (sorry...kinda like how stangs sound GREAT) anyways, i couldnt pass up a short block 383 for a grand. so i said screw it and went that route and now i have a pretty nasty hsr 383 lol.
but i REALLLYYY wanted to build the lb9 so bad . and then people couldnt use the excuse of displacement in winnig race. cuz i could say "yeah, its a 305 "

cIaRmOaCrZo

so yeah, keep up the good work man. im impressed, and id love to hear the sweet melody of that engines tone.

1987CamaroZ28

Thanks man. Here's how it sounds...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TplaJ...eature=related

1987CamaroZ28

You'll need to get some sanding rolls and cross buffs with different grades of textures. You'll also need a die grinder or something similar. A dremmel just doesn't have the sheer power to get the job done in a reasonable amount of time. However, some people use 'em, so they may work. Here's a couple links to demonstrate what i'm referring to..

any decent port and polish will come with mandrels, you'll need a couple different types of those too. The standard abrasives kit i bought had a great step by step instructional booklet. You could also get a feel for how to do your own porting and polishing by doing some research on you tube.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SAI-260006/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SAI-260013/

Nater36

I didnt end up doing any port work to mine, but i can say this, they deffinitely dont need it. My little 310 is really liking these cylinder heads and I even have a faulty regulator at only 29psi. In my opinion these heads are well worth the money spent and will be ported when i decide to do a 383 in the future

TxTtopZ

I am very interested in this build, for many reasons. Is there any videos of the car running down the road or maybe a ride along? I am seriously considering a performance rebuild on the 305 for a nice cruiser with decent power.

1987CamaroZ28

Hey there man. I totally hear ya on the performance rebuid. I just took it out for a drive yesterday and it did well. My biggest thing is getting the alignment taken care of before really taking it out. I tried to set it up from based on eye-balling it and that hasn't given me a warm feelingl. The plan is to supercharge it with a D1-SC ATI...so, there some things to be worked out. It's hard to believe it's really becoming a reality. I will take it out for a drive and will post a vid.

1987CamaroZ28

Hey, stranger things have surprise me, but I would think 29 psi would not run so well...but, maybe there's some forgiveness in the realm of fuel pressure. You really should be more in the neighborhood of 45 psi brutha. Glad to hear you're enjoying your TFS heads. If you do end up moving to a 383, those teeny combustion chambers are going to have an effect on your compression ratio. I believe the CCs are 58ccs. That's really small for a 383. Have fun!

TxTtopZ

Nater36 - I have not seen anything more impressive out of TFS aluminums than machined Vortec 062's. Which the price is about the same if you include the vortec intake you need. Have you got any dyno numbers with box stock TFS? Better yet any track times? I am currently looking at the same heads and hungry for input.

1987CamaroZ28 - after pricing the parts needed for an LSX swap, I would be better of just buying one with the engine, not much more! So, I am going to do some sort of 305 build for fun. From what I have heard, there are no regrets with the supercharged GM 5.0L! I think this is when you apply for the Z U L8R license plate!

griemar

Amazing build man, cant wait to see how this all ends. Loving how the exhaust sounds on the Youtube vid. This build has given me total faith in how fun a 305 build could be and has actually changed my mind on buying a 350 to build up. Please keep us updated on your progress.

1987CamaroZ28

dsfI can't say i can I'd be a good person to judge how well these heads perrform. My build has been over such a long period of time and I've made so many other changes, I would have no idea what difference these heads made. It would have been nice if I dyno'd the car before the project began. But, I'm glad to hear you like the heads. I just happned to ask TFS what kind of improvement I could expect, and they said about 25 to 30 hp over stock...if the heads were the only thing I changed..but I've changed so many things already, I wouldn't be a good reference to determine the results. I must have a lot of trust in TFS if I spent $1200 beans on heads I knew nothing about. What's with the 1/2" NPT fittings, does anyone use sensors with a 1/2" fitting from the 70's?! time to make a quick change on the machining to 3/8 Trick Flow! geez

watajob

iTrader: (29)

I've been watching this since the start and I'm GREEN with envy. I've got basically the same parts sitting in the garage for the 'vert. If I could finally get my wife's hip all healthied up, I'd be doing the mods right now. I hope mine sounds half as good when I'm done. Bravo!

1987CamaroZ28

Thanks very much and good luck to you and your wife. I'm pretty happy with the sound. I'm now just starting to sand the car down, so I can paint before it gets too cold. I was waiting for the weather to get a little more dry, it's been a very hot and humid summer. Since I don't have access to a booth, I have to make one in my garage. I put up some more pics. I'm almost done with the louvers too, man are those time consuming to do.

knight123

iTrader: (4)

Very nice, I've been watching this build while I've been doing mine, I'd like to see how you make out with the SC. Just painted mine in my garage in May before it got too hot, summer been brutal at times in the last 2 months.

Got mine on the road for the first time in 15 months, 2 weeks ago to start doing the bug shake out and I started to loose the tranny after 7 miles of driving over 3 days - I had hoped it was OK and everything upfront looked to be ok, good fluid / pressure, no junk in the pan, I put a transgo jr in it since it had some miles on it. Had hoped to at least drive it this year and if it needed a tranny do it over the winter, now I'm doing it currently!

The car did not even run when I got it but it had a new rebuilt LB9 then sat for 2 years, had lost the fuel pump do to rust - got it running and drove it about 1/4 mile and everything seemed OK. Oh well.

Do you think you'll be driving it before winter?

1987CamaroZ28

Thanks brutha! Ha, another little 305, nice! I'm in this strange mode of taking my time with no sense of urgency. It's amazing it's as far as it is. What a different in temps though eh? today was barely 70 and dry and the past few months have been 90s+ and about the same for humidity. that's a great question. I was planning on having the paint all done this month and then go for inspection. I'm going to laugh when I bring it in because they are going to say...um, you don't have any wipers, or you signals aren't working...i need to go there with a bunch of stuff not working so they give me a break when i go back for a retest. I've done this before and if you have a ton wrong, they tend to push you through if you get most of the stuff taken care. then again, that may be a thing of the past. I'm rambling here and need to go down to the garage and start sanding.. take care.

1987CamaroZ28

Update... i've been attempting to paint the car on my own..yeesh..

1987CamaroZ28

some more!

1987CamaroZ28

PPG recommended going with an epoxy primer, primer, sealer, base coat, clear coat. I verified this with a couple high end autobody shops here that do custom and restoration work. Quite expensive just like everything else.

1987CamaroZ28

jams painted

knight123

iTrader: (4)

hey, looking good!, I like the color al lot. I'd guess you'll be driving by spring? Just got done replacing the tranny, fun fun.. Seems to be happy now. Drove it a few times in the last week. time will tell...

If I get the bugs worked out I'd like to build the 305 a little or leave it stock and throw a procharger on it. It's a rebuilt by the PO and so far it runs great, passed smog :-) and looks clean under the covers. So I'd like to not tear it apart too much.

Now I have another formula with a siezed 305 TBI that I got as a parts car..

keep the updates coming!

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

That color looks absolutely gorgeous.

TxTtopZ

That is one of the best colors for third gens. Maui Blue, that maroon and gun metal are all nice...

Im getting pretty tired of white. It looks okay...but I need some 88-90 IROC's

1987CamaroZ28

Thanks very much!

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Any updates on this thing? Or are you already hitting the Pike with it?

dhirocz

iTrader: (2)

Id like to build a 305 just for the hell of doing it. A well built 305 TPI using good parts, proper prep and with the money spent in the right places will give a 350 a run for its money and still pull excellent mpg. All while costing a ton less.

305 vortec, mild porting, resized factory runners, sdpc base, Hedman longtubes with collector extensions, 2.25" duals and an lt1 Y cam. Would do great for the money and be a torquey bastard.

strigi86

305s are one of those engines where you thrash it around waiting "till it dies" to drop your new 350/383 in and like a year later give up and realize the thing is immortal, the unibody will disintegrate before the 305 dies

you wont smoke vipers with them but theyre really underrated as general fun daily drivers with a couple mods

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

I've rarely read a statement that's more true! I built an AFR-headed, Super Rammed 355 and had it sitting on the engine stand just waiting for the day my original TBI 305 would finally give up the ghost. I finally gave up waiting for it to die an honorable death when it reached 257K and ended up pulling a tired but still good running motor out to put the hi-po motor in! I don't regret swapping motors one bit, as the new motor is a blast to drive every day, but you simply can't beat the 305 motor for being dead solid reliable and running forever!

IroczFan

definently will be a sleeper it nice to see someone putting there $ into an original motor and not doin the simple fix of swaping it out

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

nice work. I like the color too. My car used to be that red color. I kick myslef for changing it to silver.


Guys, please read my sig

1987CamaroZ28

Thanks! Happy Belated Memorial Day.

1987CamaroZ28

Here are a couple updates since last October. Can't believe it's been that long. The outer body has been painted, I've been spending a lot of time hiding wires, and putting things back together like trim, body kit.... etc!

1987CamaroZ28

It took me a while to re-route the harness wires from the engine bay to behind the dash. Here's a few updated pics

1987CamaroZ28

a few more
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1987CamaroZ28

few more