gsf-87IROC

I had emailed someone a while back about running a 350 w/a 211/219 Lingenfelter cam and the HSR. I don't have his email anymore, so I thought I would post up for folks to see.

YOu don't have to run a huge cam with a HSR to get good power...I tried to dream big on HP with a 224/230 and the HSR and just ended up destroying my engine...but more importantly it wasn't very fun to drive around town. Power peaked way too high for fun street driving.

I put together a stock short block that has AFR 190s on it. Here are the dyno results...
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Specs on engine

Stock 89 IROC shortblock w/100k miles
AFR 190 heads
Lingenfelter 211/219 cam w/1.6 RRs(.530/.560 lift)
HSR intake
More can be found here
http://www.87iroc.org/irocz.html

Long story short...305 hp and 332 ft-lbs of torque

Hp appears to peak about 5100 rpm or so.

I was fairly happy. I finally have a combo that makes over 300 rwhp out of the box! I have spent almost 0 time tuning this engine(about 4 hrs total) and I was shocked that the AFR was so close w/o even tweaking it. I have messed with the MAF Tables, but nothing at WOT.

As far as spark goes, I am running 30^ of timing at the top end. I haven't tried to maximize that yet. I had 28.5 or so on the first run and got 300 hp and then upped it a little and gained 5 hp.

I was shocked by the flat torque curve too. I haven't paid enough attention to HSR dyno curves, but it was nice to see it was above 300 the whole time...comparing it to my old dyno run w/224/230 cam and vette heads w/auto, guess it isn't that shocking...http://87iroc.org/upgrades/zz4/dynorun902.jpg as that one was fairly flat too.

Anywho, just thought I'd share. I don' thave any plans, other than tuning, to try and improve it any...maybe try to swing a set of 4-1 headers someday and get rid of my Tri-Ys...but probably won't do that anytime soon. I'm just going to enjoy what I have...it's fun to drive! Thing has good torque around town.

This combo would have run great with a stock tune IMHO...the cam is mild enough that it was pretty happy out of the box.

3.8TransAM

Let me guess, this one is a whole lot more fun to drive around on the street where it sees 98% of its time isnt it :-)

I been there and done that too, and I try to say it when I post, its not about the peak, its about how good the curve under the peak is.

I built a 383 w/ 8.67-1 compression for boost in its future with vortec heads and I run 216-217ish intake and 221-222 exhaust duration. Pulls like a freight train and idles at 600rpm.

Might even be getting a LT4 intake converted for vortec heads too:-) It needs more airlfow than it does cam :-)

Nice to see some more people seeing the light about being honest where their cars spend their time.

later
Jeremy

91Z28-350

I agree totally. True words of wisdom. Experience is hard to beat, but when you're shopping for your first cam, it's hard to conceptualize. You don't want to do it again because you undercammed or overcammed...but you have nothing to draw on to determine what's good for you.

Good chart, Greg. It seems a bit too flat though, almost unreal. The fall off is expected, as the cam is designed for TPI (at least in my conceptualization), whereas an LT4 Hot Cam would keep climbing but may have less down low. Can you post again when you get it dialed in, so people can see what the final curve would look like? It would be nice to see a plot start at 2k rpms, since a street machine would see daily driving in that range more than 3k...at least I never wind up over 2.5-2.75k when commuting unless I need to cut over a lane and the guy next to me doesn't want to let me in.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Nice numbers. What I find interesting is your dyno chart is virtually indentical to mine. Same flat torque curve and about the same peak on horsepower. I'm running the ZZ9 cam with 212 on the intake and a highly modded TPI. Allen

gsf-87IROC

Here's the first run I did before I added a degree or so of timing. HP numbers are a bit lower, but the curve starts around 2k rpm...My IROC w/3.42 gears spends most of it's time in the 1500-2500 range with bursts to 3k when I'm rowing the gears...



Yep, it's a hoot to drive around town. Definitely would do some of the guys that are just shooting for a hp number good to drive two cars that are set up for the opposite ends of the extreme like I have owned now.

The torque curve is unreal flat. I may have a restriction somewhere as one friend of mine pointed out. I expect it could be my tri-ys or possibly my cat...even though it's a random tech...it's seen alot of hell in front of it over the years....

I'll post back sometim when I get another run. It's liable to be at least a year though...I don't expect to gain a whole lot unless I can swing some different headers. I expect tuning will only get me about 10-15 more hp...

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

definately makes a nice street motor! congrats on that combo

that combo seemed to make as much torque as a modded TPI setup which surprises me. figure torque would be higher in a TPI setup

DURTYBIRD

Good job. It looks like that cam/intake/head combo is well matched.

gsf-87IROC

The ZZ9 cam may be helping you a bit...the curves are almost identical(and yes, I would have thought a TPI would make more hp too...must be a function of just being a 350)...

If you compare the fact that you have a Auto and I have a manual, you make a bit more hp...I figure I have about 360-370 hp...

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

gsf-87IROC, it seems that you were running the same setup that i'm gonna be running...i have HSR, alum. vette heads, and Comp cams 224/230 .503/.510 lift with 1.6 RR's....with 3.73's and 2400 rpm stall converter...how do you think it will perform? i've really been looking for people with the same setup, and it sounds like you were running almost identical to what I have...do you think mine is not match very good or is it? Any hp estimates??

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

One of the things that intrigues me the most is your HSR set up and my modded TPI. I would have thought your intake would make power higher up in the RPM range than my set up. I guess the cams have a bigger influence than I thought. Allen

91Z28-350

It would be interesting to see something with a more aggressive ramp than either. Are you running 1.6rr with the ZZ-9?

ZZ-9:

ADV Duration 282/287
Duration at .050 212/226
lift w/ 1.5rr .483 .520
LSA 112

LPE211:

ADV Duration 270/280
Duration at .050 211/219
lift w/ 1.5rr .500 .525
LSA 112

The ZZ9 seems to have a bit more of a curve than the 211/219. The LPE211 has a bit more down low than the ZZ-9, it appears. It's a tad more aggressive ramp on the intake with more lift. I'm curious to see how the XR264HR compares. I'm also curious to see how the 260XFI-HR13 would compare (though I'm sure nobody has that yet).

Does anyone have an XR264HR plot with an HSR?

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

i have a XE 276....i'm wondering how that will do with the HSR...

91Z28-350

This may be a dumb question, but if you have it why don't you dyno it and datalog it and see where you're at? I'm guessing it will do well with an HSR as long as your heads can handle it. It's going to be more peaky, weaker on the low end (daily driving junk). The power will come on and ramp up quickly. That's my guess. As for peaks, I don't know. If your heads aren't ported, I think it's too much cam.

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

the car isn't running yet...and i'm like 600 miles from the nearest place with a dyno...the heads are mildly ported...but i ran a lot of lift to compensate for the smaller ports....with the 1.6rr's it comes to like .533 and .543 of lift...i hope it'll be alright....

gsf-87IROC

Here is a dyno chart of approximately what your engine will run. The bump at about hp peak was the torque convertor locking. I had the chip tuned on the second run such that the convertor would lock immediately...



Here is a link to engine specs I had with that run...just get rid of the AFRs and put 'ported vette heads'...and that was my engine...

http://www.87iroc.org/upgrades/zz4/myiroc2002.html

I hope you have chip tuning abilities as I don't think it will run very good w/o it...

I had to turn that engine to about 6000 rpm to get the full use out of it. I don't know if I'd trust a stock shortblock that far on a regular basis.

With your 3.73s though, you will probably fix some of my driveability issues that I had with that cam.

Is it a good setup? I wouldn't run it again...but to each his own.

gsf-87IROC

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 1989GTATransAm
One of the things that intrigues me the most is your HSR set up and my modded TPI. I would have thought your intake would make power higher up in the RPM range than my set up. I guess the cams have a bigger influence that I thought. Allen [/QUOTE

I may have something choking the engine down a bit. I don't know. A friend of mine stated he thought that the torque curve might be too flat, which might indicate a restriction in the system.

I have Tri-Ys and a cat, but everything else in the system is free flowing as far as I know. I"m sure the Tri-Ys aren't hurting that bad...

gsf-87IROC

What are the specs on a XE 276?

Jekyll & Hyde

I think he means XR276, the XE is for fords. It is still part of the Xtreme Engery line, but the model for chevy starts with 'XR'.

Comp Cams: XR276-HR
Part #: 08-503-08 (Computer Controlled)

Duration at .05:
224/230

Lift at 1.5:
.502/.510

Centerline:
112*

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Yes I'm using 1.6 rockers. I'm also using SLP 1 5/8" Tri-Y headers. From what I have researched the Tri-Y's are better than the 4-1 headers below 5500rpm for street/strip cars. The reason they are not more popular is the cost of producing them.

I have been taking a hard look at the Comp Cams 08-466-8 or 268XFI-HR13. It is a 218/224 cam with .570/.565 lift and 113LSA. My heads can handle the lift and the numbers are with 1.6RR. The advertised duration is 268/276. So it should idle half way decent with a good tune a still maintain good idle vacuum. Allen

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

yes the specs on my 276 is right there.....i have a custom chip tuned for it by pcmforless....i hope it creates at least 300 to the wheels, when i was searchin for a cam people were telling me that just under 400 horse is possible and running in the 12's for quarter mile times....i hope the 2200 rpms stall and 3.73's compensate for the lack of low end torque.....but now I'm kinda afraid cuz you guys are saying its such a high revving cam, and I have a fully rebuilt shortblock, but it isn't built up or anything..

Jekyll & Hyde

The 276 isn't that radical of a cam, it's more mid power than anything else. If you were going to wnat a high rev cam, the 305 and 306 cams would blow the 276 out of the water.

The 276 quits about 5500rpm, which isn't much more than a tricked out TPI system, so I would suggest a larger cam and gears for your car (if you still have the stealth-ram).

91Z28-350

Hijack in progress. klumb15, start another thread.

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

ok i'm sorry...i just got a little excited when i found somebody that was running the same cam as I was...i'm not looking for a more radical of a cam...i thought mine was too radical....i dont' think my shortblock can handle a higher revving cam, so I think i'll be alright...i just was looking for a little insight...and I found it....so continue on with the original thread...sorry about that guys...

kdrolt

I doubt more ignition advance will help. The heads you are using are very efficient burners so they don't need a lot of ignition advance. BTW your run is lean at both ends, especially at the high rpm end. You won't gain a lot if you richen it, but you will gain insurance against running too lean and the problems that go with it.

chevyengr

iTrader: (1)

Have you taken the car out to the track yet?

If so, what is your magical number??

Eager to know.

gsf-87IROC

Were you talking to me?

If so, I haven't taken it to the track yet. Probably won't for a while. I was in the low 13s w/the previous engine w/Vette heads and Auto tranny.

I have only made 2 passes on the strip with the 6 spd...so it would probably take a few track rentals to get back to those numbers. I'm guessing low 13s should be do-able.

gsf-87IROC

Thanks for the comments on the ig adv. I wont' get my hopes up then. The 1.5^ gained me 5 hp..so that wasn't bad for return on 'investment'...

I know it's running lean, but the operator of the dyno said it wasn't too bad as it wasn't at peak torque.

I figure I'll correct it shortly...just haven't had time.

cali92RS

Not to contriibute to the Hi-Jacking of the thread, but i think the 2200 rpm stall is a bit low. Depending on if the car is a daily driver, or mostly a strip car i would go for 2600-2800 stall with that cam. Maybe evben larger if its primarily going to see the track.

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

its a daily driver, very little track time...i knew it was a bit low...but the guy that built my tranny threw it in for free...so i couldnt' complain ya know...

cali92RS

Well, since it was free, you shouldnt feel too bad when you toss it and get a higher stall converter

klumb15

iTrader: (1)

i know i should've...but i didn't....i talked to the guy yesterday actually and couldn't remember if it was a 2200 or 2400, but he said the blue ones he puts in are 2400's and I got a blue one...and he said the purple ones that he has are the lower stall ones....and he said the more horsepower you make the more the stall speed will be...plus i didn't have the money at the time to buy a new stall, cuz the tranny quoted us at like 600 and turned out to be close to 1500...i think it'll be just fine...anyways