kylez28

If I were to put on a HSR, LT4 Hotcam, and some SLP LM Headers, would I compare to an LS1? I already have BBK throttle body, bored .60 over, Flowmaster exhaust no cat, ported plenum, and K&N Filter?

brianp454

What heads are you using?

kylez28

I would be using SLP LM headers...but I have the stock ones now I believe...

brianp454

Kyle,

I meant your cylinder heads. The "heads" are the #1 way to build extra power. The factory L98 heads were kinda crummy compared to modern heads we'd consider to be high perf. A set of S/R Torquers, Vortecs, or others would do you well. Other guys here or TPI gurus would likely advise the same

kevinc

With the right heads as mentioned earlier you'd do well with a stock or lightly-modded LS1.

If you run across an LS1 with upgraded heads/cam, he'll be putting down in the 400hp range and will clean your clock.

MrDude_1

diffrent cam, better headers and some good heads, you'd have a chance to hang with a lid/exhaust LS1...

keep in mind, thats what you're up agienst... noone racing a LS1 fbody is going to keep the stock lid and exhaust.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

I've raced and beat a Z06 and several modded LS-1 F-bodies.

A heads and cam LS-1 Camaro pulled on me by a few cars though.

What you looking to do isn't hard to accomplish.

However, you need a good set of heads (my ported vortecs flowed better than AFR 195's on the bench). Also, the Hot-cam is weak.

Go with a XR276HR-12 (the one I run), or a little bigger.

kylez28

I would go with a bigger cam, but I don't want my cars idle to be all lopey and messed up bigtime.

kylez28

How fast do you run 1bad91z????

kylez28

but wait, if I were to put on Vortec heads, they wouldn't be compatible with the HSR would they?

91Z28-350

At the strip, you're going to need quite a bit of work to keep up with modded LS1s. I know late model LS1s with exhaust, lid, cam, and upgraded valve springs putting down over 400rwhp through a T-56. No headwork required. Check the LS1 forums for timeslips, if you want.

kylez28

i know what ls1's run, high 12's low 13's, i'm asking if I were to get a good Intake/Heads/Headers/Cam combo would I be right with them?

MrDude_1

if you're talking cam only cars, some of the nasty cams put out over 420+ REAR WHEEL horsepower.

common mods:

lid - basicly the "cold air intake"... its alot like the stocker, with the baffles taken out.

catback - we all know what that is

ORY aka Off-Road-Ypipe - the 4thgen has flattened oval tubing for a exhaust.. it sucks.. toss on a 3" mandrel bent ORY, and you see a good gain esp with:

headers! ofcourse... popular mod.




so basicly you have spent about the same as most 3rdgen owners at that point.... a air intake, and full exhaust......

heres the diff... toss in a cam (with valvesprings, and pushrods) and it makes 370 - 420+ RWHP depending on the cam... im sure some baby cams make less.. and im sure some of the nasty cams make more.... but most cammed LS1s are around 400rwhp.

kylez28

how hard was it really to put an LS1 in ur car?

MrDude_1

thats a loaded question. lol



to me, not very... my longest hangup was a inital lack of support and help from the swap community in helping me get the wiring down.

after a couple good guys chimed in so i could draw out the wiring diagram, it was easy..


as far as the mechanical aspect, it just bolted in... i litterally dropped it into my car in under a half hour.

the longest part of that was actually elongating the holes in the Spohn crossmember....





i did everything on it except the exhaust.. i just towed it to a shop for that... he made a ****ty ypipe that im not happy with....

so naturally, im now redoing the exhaust... i had hoped to put the headers on soon, so i took off the manifolds... still figuring out what im going to do with the header deal... i dont have anyplace i can weld right now, so i cant make them. and the guy i was buying them from sold them out from under me, so i dont have them coming anymore....


umm... one of the other time consuming parts was upgrading the fuel system... athough that wasnt too bad...


overall, alot of little details, but nothing outstandingly hard... if you can swap and wire a TPI motor in, you can swap in a LS1... the only diff is the price of the parts.

kylez28

I'm starting to think it would be a better idea just to get a damn LS1, than modding my TPI. Probably cost me less in the long run too.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

They do make a HSR for vortec heads now.

However you will need to have some work done on your vortecs to make them hang with a modded LS-1.

Vortec HSR/ ported vortec heads / xr276hr-12 / custom PROM (tuned well) and some headers will get you where you want to be.

91Z28-350

You might be better off with the LS1. What you start with is so much better. Mod for mod, you can't keep up with LS1s. If you want to keep up with stock LS1s, then heads/cam/intake will get you there. It's like that song...anything you can do, I can do better...

And a cammed LS1 running low 13s to high 12s? Hmm...push that lower and you'll be in the right range. low 12s to high 11s, with just a cam, exhaust, and lid. Headwork, low to mid 11s.

You figure 3500lb-3700lb race weight, 380-420rwhp for a cammed LS1.

If I were you, I wouldn't look at it as keeping up an LS1, because soon it's going to be keeping up with a 402 LS2, a 427 LS7...where does it end? Setting a power and timeslip goal may allow you to at least be satisified, if only for a short while.

MrDude_1

yea, its all about your goal..

and then expanding on them.


for example, my goal was mid 11s... not hard.

so as i went along, my goal became mid 11s, daily driver and roadtrip reliable, reasonable gas miliage, and parts avalibilty when things broke.


that kinda narrowed it down.

a stock internal LS1 can do mid 11s with a good stall, tires and some QA1s... but i wanted a manual.... so im going with a mild cam (224/228 @.050 114 LSA .55x/.55x lift)... most guys get around 380rwhp with it... there are the freaks topping 400rwhp...but the lowest ive seen is 374.. without tuning.
i have HP tuners to tune it, so on a cool night, im sure i can get it to see 400rwhp...

that puts me in the mid 11s, pumpgas, daily driver.. and 90% of the stuff on my car is off the local shelf, not special order.... for example, my fuel regulator is a vette filter/regulator... so if it goes bad, i can goto any GM dealership, or some autoparts stores, and get one that day.



its the ideal motor for what IM doing.. not perfect for everyone, but for what IM after, its great!

MrDude_1

btw, another one of the goals i have in mind.

if i wanted to, i could toss the keys to my mom, or my sister, and they could drive the car. no funky idle, no touchy controls, no special instructions (except dont hit potholes...... low car.)

kylez28

My goal is to be with stock/ and bolt-on LS1s. I just want my car to hit mid to high 12's.

kylez28

My goal is to be with stock/ and bolt-on LS1s. I just want my car to hit mid to high 12's. I also want to be able to Hang with/beat most LT1's, but without a NASTY cam and terrible idle.

TPI-454

Without the "NASTY" cam, you'll never see mid 12's... naturally aspirated that is. Rather than immediately 'jump' to an LS1, why not simply consider even more cubes.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

a superram 355 with LPE 219/219 cam will run fine on pump gas and get decent gas mileage and be able to run with most bolt on Ls1's. that combo should go low 12's with good tune
tune is gonna be what makes or breaks it as Ls1's are easy to tune

CC89Formula

Wow, here 400 hp puts you at about a 13.4...

MrDude_1

im sorry, that was in LS1 terms.

i ment 460.... 400 REAR WHEEL horsepower, multiplied by 15% to account for drivetrain loss....



btw, im not going to be coy or anything.. this is perfectly blunt.

if you really are only at a 13.4 with 400hp, you suck... stop worrying abotu power, and go fix whats stopping you from USING it.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

whats the altitude in texas? maybe thats why its only 13.4

CC89Formula

I know, I was talking LS1 also, Ive got a buddy with a 2000 Z28 with all the bolt ons and a .595 cam, dont know durration on it, no head work and 4.11s and he runs a 13.4. Last Sunday at the track our density altitude was something like 5200ft, im not sure what our actually altitude is. Most LS1s around here run about that until you do some head work.

MrDude_1

heres a hint.

if you're at altitude... and your "400hp motor" isnt making 400hp at altitude.........................you dont have a 400hp motor.


sure you're doing X time at altitude, and that would be Y time at sea level.... but THATS why you arnt getting times... its because you're not making 400hp.


if you want to play semantics, then go find another board to bull**** on.

ennis is at 500 ft. above sea level.. i donno about any other tracks in texas.




your buddy is a retard. even if you were up in the mountians, you can get lower ETs with a stock LS1.. nevermind a cammed one.

heres a hint


this is my buddy silentbutviolent

the #5 stock internal LS1 in the country ( see list here )

btw, just incase you think im making that up, heres the pics i took of him: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282222 and my name is Travis... he mentions it in the first post.

im also very good friends with jay99_Z (#36) amoung others....

theres no way in hell you're going to say a stock internal LS1 is making 400hp.


frankly, i dont appreciate ignorant people posting bull****.

i dont care if your friend ran 14s with every mod in the book.. it doesnt mean hes good at drag racing, matter of fact, it shows that you need to find another racing buddy..... if you were the one teaching him howto go faster, thats one thing.. but for him to have the car you're baseing ETs on... well, you need to find another friend.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

you mean a full bolt on, stock internal, stock heads car with good tuner and free flowing exhaust wont pick up 50hp and make 400hp on crank?

Or do you mean 400 RWHP??? then i would have to agree, you need some more work........

CC89Formula

No, he laid down 400 REAR WHEEL hp

Yea Ennis is about 500 ft above sea level but like i said, DA on Sunday was 5300ft...thats almost a mile since you seem to be such a math genius

If you can show me a stock LS1 that gonna run better than a 13.4 in the mountains ill believe it.

This isnt any bull**** either, i know what im talking about. The average for a bolt on cam car here in Amarillo is about a 13.4 some run slower, few run faster. If you dont believe me, then fine, but I know what im talking about. Theres an auto car here with just about every bolt on and heads and cam that ran its best ever last Sunday that was like a 12.6.

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

400 horsepower in a 3200 pound car should be good for low, low 12's.

TPI-454

I agree, light makes might...

But then again, so does torque! Many people have shoe-horned in 455's with relatively low horsepower, but with lot's of torque, and many people have seen mid 11's with them (not to mention, stock weight)...

I'd have to agree with Mr. Dude though. For that 1/4 mile time of 13.4, what is he trapping, and what is his 60ft times?

CC89Formula

I really couldnt tell you his trap speed or 60ft times. I THINK, im not sure on this, that on the 150 shot of nitrous running high 11s his trap speed was somewhere around 130 but I could be wrong

Whitels1

A mild modded ls1, is runnin high 13's low 14's. A 350 with a good cam, few mods and some gears could accomplish that.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Stu said in colorado, like 5800 feet or so, C5 vettes were mid lower 14's

so to do 13.4 its gonna take some power.

CC89Formula

but arent the 4th gen cars actually 100 pounds HEAVIER than the 3rd gen cars?

yeah, its tough when your fighting that kind of altitude, or in our case density altitude.

H0TR0Dn

Looks like MrDude_1 doesnt know as much about the effects of altitude as he thinks he does

MrDude_1

sure i do.

i was just pointing out that if you're at altitude, you're not making the same power as you are at sea level.




if you're at altitude and you have a mid 13second car... GREAT! yea i'll be alot faster down here.


but you're not making 400hp... duh.



this is semantic bull****.

CC89Formula

If you can lay down 400 rear wheel hp on a dyno....doesnt that mean your making 400 hp? The answer is yes.

MrDude_1

are you a retard, or do you just not comprehend what im saying?



if you're making anywhere near 400RWHP at the track, and you have a Fbody (or other reasonable weight car) then you should be well into the 12s.. regardless of altitude. hell if you have 400RWHP at high altitude, you should trap slightly faster since you have less wind resistance.


the altitude argument comes into play when you have a stock car that makes X hp at sea level, but only Y hp at altitude...... and then you can expect the ETs of the car to be similar Y hp as another car at sealevel making Y hp...





now im just going to wait for this pointless thread to be locked... i swear, the people in this forum argue about the most stupid things.

MrDude_1

oh, and to further my point.



NO.



if you take the dyno numbers and have them corrected to sea level and corrected for the current weather ..... then you still are NOT making 400hp... but you would on a IDEAL DAY at SEA LEVEL

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

You are missing his point entirely . If you take your car and make a corrected 400 horsepower at altitude, you are not making 400 horsepower. In theory, you should be making 400 horsepower at sea level, but you are not making that at altitude. Period.

H0TR0Dn

H0TR0Dn

You didnt say that to CC89Formula He just made a statment and you went off like an idiot calling his friend names etc, grow up. You could have handled yourself with a little more respect of others. If you cant explain(teach) others with a little professionalism maybe you should just keep your knowledge to yourself

MrDude_1

perhaps... im sure the mods and alot of other people would agree...


but afterbeing on these boards for so long, when someone says somthing as stupid as 400rwhp, 13sec times, you kinda just want them to feel stupid enough to shut the F up.

as a rule, it seems kinda harsh to newbies, but its all in how they do it.

if you say XXX as a fact, and its dead wrong... i'll try to make you shutup anyway i can.. i hate when people spout crap thats wrong.


if you say XXX as a question or asking or somthing, that cool, and i'll try to help.


but now the thread is waay off topic...

CC89Formula

Hotrodn is one of my friends here in Amarillo. He can probably agree that it takes alot of power to make a car go low 13s NA here.

If you take that 13.4 and correct it to sea level you get a 12.6.
http://www.hardcore50.com/members/correctionfactors.htm

theres the site I used, Amarillo is 3700' above sea level if you want to check it

twobirds

I just read this whole dam tread and all I can say is, WOW!

H0TR0Dn

CC89Formula I havent seen the Dyno sheet on your friends car but MrDude_1 is basically saying the same as you if the Dyno sheet is 400 rwhp its corrected at sea level (unless it is uncorrected- raw data) Now that 400rwhp is not going to be 400 rwhp here in Amarillo and it will take more hp to achieve the same times here as a car at sea level.

CrazyHawaiian

The previous owner of my 91Z28 had a solution. He dropped alot of money on a Vortech S-Trim and put it on the stock L98. I personally think its a horrible combo, but supprisingly it hangs with stock LS1's on the freeway. I cant complain though man, the blower came with the car so it was basically free. Never tried em at the 1/4 track sorry. But on the freeway, if they are modded, then I'm toast. I've raced alot of times against my friends Z06 (he dyno 383rwhp, not sure if its corrected or not lol) and he pulls me. I figgure I'll do a HSR, blower cam, new valvetrain, set of headers (still stock manifolds lol) and gonna try for 400rwhp. I know the stock heads really suck, but considering how much more peak HP the HSR makes versus TPI, I think it might be possible with the right cam and a blower pushing 6psi. I want to take my friends Z06 out!