jo88gta

Been having all sorts of problems ever since the new Edelbrock runners, intake and 24# injectors. Could someone please provide their $.02 on what the following ALDL data points to as potential problems? No Codes! Car barely runs! Shakes! Stutters! Pops out exhaust at idle and any other time as well.

PROM ID 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331
Coolant Temp (°F) 61.2 61.2 61.2 61.2 61.2
Start Up CoolantTemp (°F) 61.2 61.2 61.2 61.2 61.2
Throttle Sensor (Volts) 0.54 0.54 0.54 0.54 0.54
Engine RPM 347 358 382 415 447
Vehicle Speed (MPH) 0 0 0 0 0
Oxygen Sensor (mVolts) 264 396 408 312 356
O2 Cross Counts 90 100 102 106 108
Block Learn 128 128 128 128 128
BLK LRN Cell 0 0 0 0 0
Integrator 128 128 128 128 128
Idle Air Mtr Pos (steps) 145 145 145 145 145
Desired Idle (RPM) 862 862 862 862 862
Engine Load 103 115 117 105 102
Manifold Air Tmp (°F) 60.8 60.8 60.8 60.8 60.8
EGR Duty Cycle (%) 0 0 0 0 0
CCP Duty Cycle (%) 0 0 0 0 0
Battery Voltage (Volts) 11.3 11.9 12 11.8 11.8
Fuel Pump Sense (volts) 11.2 11.4 11.5 11.8 11.8
Spark Advance (°) 33.9 33.2 34.3 33.9 33.9
Knock Sensor 136 136 136 136 136
Knock Retard (°) 0 0 0 0 0
Injector Pulse (mS) 9.2 6.5 6.5 5.2 5.3
Engine Run Time (seconds) 7 8 9 10 12
MAP Sensor (Volts) 0.94 0.94 0.94 0.94 0.94
Mass Air Flow (gr/sec) 8 9 9 9 9
Battery Voltage High : (No=0) 0 0 0 0 0
Shift Light (Off=0) 0 0 0 0 0
TCC Status (Not Locked=0) 0 0 0 0 0
A/C (Not Requested=0) 0 0 0 0 0
Park/Neutral (Detected=0) 0 0 0 0 0
Fourth Gear (Engaged=0, Not Engaged=1) 0 0 0 0 0
A/C Clutch (Disabled=0) 0 0 0 0 0
Oxygen Sensor (Ready=0) 0 0 0 0 0
First Gear (Not Engaged=0) 0 0 0 0 0
CCP Purge (Off=0) 0 0 0 0 0
Air Divert (Solenoid On=0) 0 0 0 0 0
Air Switch (Solenoid On=0) 0 0 0 0 0
Learn Control (Disabled=0) 0 0 0 0 0
Rich Lean Flag (Lean=0) 0 0 0 0 0
Loop Status (Open=0) 0 0 0 0 0

Ed Maher

All that data confirms is that it's running screwed up. But nothing jumps out as flagrantly wrong, which is a good sign. That basically confirms you just messed something up when you put it together last time.

Although that fuel pump voltage does seem pretty low. At 350rpms, sure the alt. isn't charging, but i'd still think you'd see at least 12.x. Might be nothing, but it's a potential wild card.

If you just had the intake and everything else off, and are running different injectors too, you have a lot of stuff to triple check at this point.mostly vacuum leaks. Or something related to the injectors. As a matter of fact, i think i rememeber people having trouble with edelcrock bases where the injector towers were too short and made them injectors bind up.

Of course it could always be something really dumb like you dropped your MAF while it was off the car and now it's bad. I don;t think the idle readings mean much if it's barely able to idle, and at that low of an RPM the air is just not even moving.

jo88gta

Ok, heading out to double check MAF and vacuum. What about the Knock sensor reading of 136? Is that way out of the "norm?"

jo88gta

btw, the injectors are LT1 24#s - they are actually short compared to stock injectors - barely fit down into the holes but do seal. I have used starter fluid around the engire base and plenum with no increase in rpms any more.

Raiden

Start with the basic's

spark, air, fuel. First, check for vacume leaks with some brake cleaner. Second, check your fuel psi! It could be running really rich since it's popping out the exhaust. TImming too! make sure the brown wire is disconnceted when you set your initial timming.

jo88gta

Confirmed spark, 48psi fuel pressure, no codes, just got done checking for vacuum leaks with starter fluid. Data shows running lean.

Jza

I'm thinking your minimum air is set too low. Your actual RPM is about 400 under the desired RPM and your Idle Air counts are up at 145, which means it's trying to get more air in there but can't. Follow the procedure for setting minimum air and TPS voltage and you should be getting somewhere.

The Rich/Lean flag is completely useless since you're running in open loop, so that doesn't mean anything.

Note also, that your pulse width is going down, yet your RPMs are increasing. It's still hard to tell since this is only 5 seconds worth of data, though.

You may want to clean the IAC motor as well. Your idle is changing, but the IAC isn't moving. It's either stuck or you have a fuel problem somewhere. Since your MAP sensor wasn't moving I would think it's not a fuel pressure problem due to vacuum fluctuations. This is why later cars have a "desired IAC position" readout as well. Make sure you lubricate the motor's moving parts (the gears anyway) and push the pintle all the way back into the motor.

Put up a couple more recordings (I bet that one took forever to type up ) from driving around (just cruise) if it's possible to drive the car..

jo88gta

ok, here's the hole thing. Just re-ran the data after resetting the iac and replacing the coil again. Ran a hair better. Sorry about the size of this thing (file that is)

PROM ID 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331 2331
Coolant Temp (°F) 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5 166.5
Start Up CoolantTemp (°F) 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176 176
Throttle Sensor (Volts) 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 0.58 1.21 1.07
Engine RPM 884 903 944 934 938 865 925 863 856 905 896 930 927 920 900 926 943 899 947 910 901 917 873 906 892 923 1149 2380 2708
Vehicle Speed (MPH) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Oxygen Sensor (mVolts) 308 292 328 320 324 336 332 332 332 324 324 332 320 328 332 336 320 320 312 324 316 316 312 312 320 312 744 196 616
O2 Cross Counts 206 206 206 206 206 206 206 206 206 206 206 206 206 206 206 206 206 208 208 208 208 208 208 208 208 208 209 214 235
Block Learn 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 130 128 128
BLK LRN Cell 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 15 11
Integrator 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 128 127 125 128
Idle Air Mtr Pos (steps) 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 32 50 61 61
Desired Idle (RPM) 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837 837
Engine Load 52 53 49 49 49 54 51 52 54 52 51 50 50 51 51 48 50 50 50 51 51 54 53 52 51 54 44 108 73
Manifold Air Tmp (°F) 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2 102.2
EGR Duty Cycle (%) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
CCP Duty Cycle (%) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Battery Voltage (Volts) 13.9 13.8 13.8 13.8 13.7 14 14 13.9 13.9 13.9 14 13.7 13.9 13.9 14 13.8 13.8 13.9 13.8 13.9 13.9 13.7 13.9 13.9 13.9 13.8 13.9 13.8 13.6
Fuel Pump Sense (volts) 13.6 13.6 13.7 13.7 13.7 13.6 13.7 13.6 13.6 13.6 13.7 13.6 13.7 13.6 13.6 13.6 13.7 13.6 13.6 13.7 13.7 13.6 13.6 13.7 13.6 13.7 13.6 13.6 13.6
Spark Advance (°) 30.8 30.8 30.8 31.5 31.5 30.8 30.8 30.4 30.8 30.8 31.1 31.5 30.4 30.8 30.8 31.5 31.1 31.1 31.1 31.1 30.8 30.8 30.8 31.1 30.8 30.8 31.1 37.8 37.8
Knock Sensor 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 6
Knock Retard (°) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5
Injector Pulse (mS) 2.1 2.1 1.9 1.9 2 2 2 2 2 2.1 2 2 2 2.1 2.1 1.8 2 2 2 2 2.1 2 2.1 2.1 2.1 2 1.7 4.3 3
Engine Run Time (seconds) 417 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 446 447
MAP Sensor (Volts) 1.92 1.92 1.92 1.92 1.92 1.92 1.92 1.92 1.92 1.92 1.92 1.94 1.94 1.94 1.94 1.94 1.94 1.94 1.94 1.94 1.94 1.94 1.94 1.94 1.94 1.94 1.94 1.94 1.94
Mass Air Flow (gr/sec) 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 10 53 42
Battery Voltage High : (No=0) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Shift Light (Off=0) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
TCC Status (Not Locked=0) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
A/C (Not Requested=0) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Park/Neutral (Not Detected=0) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
"Fourth Gear (Engaged=0, Not Engaged=1)" 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
A/C Clutch (Disabled=0) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
"Oxygen Sensor (Not Ready=0, Ready=1)" 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1
First Gear (Engaged=0) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
CCP Purge (Off=0) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
"Air Divert (Solenoid On=0, Solenoid Off=1)" 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0
Air Switch (Solenoid Off=0) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
"Learn Control (Disabled=0, Enabled=1)" 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1
"Rich Lean Flag (Lean=0, Rich=1)" 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1
"Loop Status (Open=0, Closed=1)" 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1

jo88gta

Another btw, found the vacuum guage (thanks fred) and pulled a reading of about 17 to 18lbs - shouldn't this be higher? Did a propane and starter fluid test and found no leaks.

Raiden

If it is a steady vacume reading...it should be OK. I have a ZZ3 cam and sit at 17inches of Hg at ilde. Stock cam should show about a steady 20in/hg.

Jza

You forgot to reset the TPS voltage after you set the minimum air as evidenced by the .58 volts.

Remember, every time you mess with the timing, it effects the natural idle speed. Every time you adjust the minimum air, it effects the TPS voltage (because you're basically setting a new 0% throttle setting).

Are you setting the minimum air and timing in Drive instead of Park? You should set it in Drive and then take the readings in Park.

jo88gta

I wondered if anyone was going to pickup on my half done adjustment (tps). When to finish this morning and decided to start from scratch and do the iac over before adjusting the tps.

Started the car and warmed it up to operating temperature. During warm up it ran fair with a slight miss and a shake (like a plug wire being off), if i would try and rev the car it would stutter and shake. At 160 degrees (operating temperature), I shut it off and put the paper clip into the aldl, turned the ignition on, waited and disconnected the iac. Started the car and it popped and boomed from the exhaust and barely could run. It's the backfiring that has me baffled the most. Never, EVER did this while adjusting iac and tps before. Vacuum is steady at 17. Timing is 8 -10 degrees. AFR 48lbs with vacuum plugged.

This has me really baffled.

Jza

If you have time, pull all 8 plugs and take a look at them. I'm wondering if one or more of your injectors are having problems. Look for really white or really clean plugs. There's also a chance when you installed the injectors a little piece of crud got down in the filter screen.

I'm also wondering if you installed the distributor a tooth off. How's the timing look with a timing light?

jo88gta

Need to add my own timing mark. Old one doesn't line up ever since I swapped engines. Right now I have TDC marked on the distributor and manifold, just need to paint a mark on the balancer. Usually do it manually with good results. I know I'm within a few degrees.

Will check injectors and plugs later this morning.

Thanks!

ZZ28ZZ

Any chance you have a couple of sparkplug wires crossed?
Depending on which 2 are crossed, I've seen engs have a fairly smooth idle with crossed wires, but wouldn't rev up hardly at all. When they did rev up, they would backfire and/or afterfire like crazy.

Cooper

This is just something I noticed, may or may not affect your problem. Your first set of data - looked like your alternator was dead or unhooked.(11.3V)

2nd set of data - looked good (13.9V)

Just an observation.