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I'm cracking up man, too funny! What cam did you choose?
I frickin love that channel, specifically the 307 and 350 builds.
I haven’t completely decided on the cam yet 🤔.
My LG4 has got the 416 heads (what Derrick used on the 307) and I hope 9.5:1 compression - so I need a split cam with more exhaust duration and modest lift (under .475) to make the most of these. I’d like the car to have a reasonable idle and solid vacuum. Remember it’s a 3.27 gear open diff 700R4...
Cheap and cheerful?
Melling MTC-1, same specs as Edelbrock 2102 cam, perfectly matches my Edelbrock 2101 intake. 421in/444ex, 278/288, 112 LS.
Lunati 10120101LK, 443/465, 280/290, 112 LS. Virtually the same as the Summit 1103 cam with a brand name on the box / maybe nicer lifter. Still well matched to the intake, will require more spring and has some lope.
Either way I need to get standard retainers for the exhaust valves, shims to compensate for removing the rotators etc.
While I’m in there:
water pump
timing set
electric cooling fan (oe 86 and up style)
paint, paint and more paint. Tssst, tssst and more Tssssst.
I’ll need a spring height measuring tool, shims etc, plus duty, let’s add another $100 to it.
Or, the Melling torque select RV cam.
with springs, timing kit and accoutrements $203 CDN. Part of this reduced cost is due to the Melling spring recommendation, which is an aftermarket replacement for the STOCK spring in the LG4! Now, I would replace the springs with new units from Melling, but I won’t need to replace the retainers (or eliminate the exhaust rotators) as the new springs will have the same values as the stock parts.
Will the Comp cam develop $375 worth of more horsepower and torque to justify the expense?
$375 CDN should buy a second hand 9 bolt posi and a “corvette” servo kit if I’m careful with my money...
For what you're doing, that Melling cam looks like the ticket. Make sure you run an oil with ZDDP or pour in the additive, I lost a mild hydraulic flat tappet in my Ford out of nowhere when I didn't know better 15k kms after break in.
For what you're doing, that Melling cam looks like the ticket. Make sure you run an oil with ZDDP or pour in the additive, I lost a mild hydraulic flat tappet in my Ford out of nowhere when I didn't know better 15k kms after break in.
Yes, it flat out fits the bill. There’s a Howard’s cam (street force 1) that has a bit more exhaust lift than the Melling - but no response from them as yet on which spring is appropriate for their cam.
Had a Merry Christmas, even received an unexpected COVID bonus which will make it’s way into funding the cam and some fresh build components.
I’m still experiencing intermittent misfires (pops out of the exhaust at idle to 1500 rpm), I’ve gone through all the usual suspects without resolution - I’m thinking pick up coil or ignition module, and found a DIRT cheap Accel billet distributor on Holley’s eBay page & laid my money down (supposedly damaged packaging is cause for the $100 drop in price). I can’t wait to see how this works out.
In Lockdown again, which means next to nothing is available and Amazon delayed shipping some odds and ends I had picked out for easy projects over the Christmas break which means a guy has to branch out for entertainment...
Most of the clear coat on my wheels has disappeared over the years, I do have some 400 and 1000 grit paper...
lighting in my basement is poor, but I managed to delete the peeling clear coat, and put some real shine on the rims for the first time in my ownership. I was able to remove the‘water marks’ also.
Those are going to town wheels now! Those came out nice.
Are your plug wires alright? Picture in post 92 looks like #4 wire could've got burnt now what with the headers. Cast gear on your new distributor?
I'm becoming a tbi guy, that's pronounced tibby, and stands for terribly bad injection... Yup. Curious if your air cleaner base is in accordance with the lo3 from the factree? It's terrible...
VGG and AvE ruint me. 'Pologize to the other fellas reading this, a guy is just having too much fun in here.
Those are going to town wheels now! Those came out nice.
Are your plug wires alright? Picture in post 92 looks like #4 wire could've got burnt now what with the headers. Cast gear on your new distributor?
I'm becoming a tbi guy, that's pronounced tibby, and stands for terribly bad injection... Yup. Curious if your air cleaner base is in accordance with the lo3 from the factree? It's terrible...
VGG and AvE ruint me. 'Pologize to the other fellas reading this, a guy is just having too much fun in here.
No worries from me, safety squints engaged. I’m looking to improve upon the LG4 air filter assembly, but I just don’t see anything I like.
The 14” black edelbrock is nice... but I like factory appearing parts. Dual inlet might be possible by combining 2 LG4 intakes? Anyone want to sell a dual intake?
4 hours of reconnaissance and parts acquisition today:
I picked up a worn set of seats and dual fan setup that needs a bit of help.
After some sweat equity the passenger seat I picked up today now identifies as a drivers seat. It was actually a nicer passenger than what I had but I don’t sit over there, so...
still pretty damp after the LSMatt treatment but it’ll dry out overnight.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 12-31-2020 at 06:58 PM.
The 14” black edelbrock is nice... but I like factory appearing parts. Dual inlet might be possible by combining 2 LG4 intakes? Anyone want to sell a dual intake?
Well I just removed the snorkel from the lo3 air cleaner assembly I have because I'm turning it into a cowl induction. I ground the 4 spot welds out with a ball nose carbide. I have no intentions of using it, but I doubt you'd want anything to do with shipping from Michigan. If they decide to ever open the border so I can see my family in Windsor again, cover the shipping and the snorkel and duct are yours.
I was looking at pictures, and it looks like that lg4 air cleaner is the same part as the lo3. If you have that ring coming up from around the carburetor opening, I think cutting it out with a die grinder and cutoff wheel will help. I bought this aftermaket air cleaner base, because I need to center up the air cleaner with the hood opening but it looks like it's going to be an improvement. I'm going to cut the bottom out of the stocker and offset this base in it, then pop rivet and rtv them together. If you wanted to do a stock appearing thing with an open element to test on it, you could buy that base and cut a stock lid back to look like this:
I don't know how much hood clearance you have, but the taller filter in the picture is for a 1994 1500 pickup. I haven't tried closing the hood, it's going in the black Camaro with the 4" cowl in the background. Those lo3 trucks had much better air cleaner bases, but I don't know how you'd make one look right in a third gen, even if using the shorter f-body air filter and factory lid worked with it (I don't know). 83 Crossfire TA's truck picture for reference:
Nice seat, I wish I could find some nice black/grey pallex rear seats for my Camaro.
Well I just removed the snorkel from the lo3 air cleaner assembly I have because I'm turning it into a cowl induction. I ground the 4 spot welds out with a ball nose carbide. I have no intentions of using it, but I doubt you'd want anything to do with shipping from Michigan. If they decide to ever open the border so I can see my family in Windsor again, cover the shipping and the snorkel and duct are yours.
I was looking at pictures, and it looks like that lg4 air cleaner is the same part as the lo3. If you have that ring coming up from around the carburetor opening, I think cutting it out with a die grinder and cutoff wheel will help. I bought this aftermaket air cleaner base, because I need to center up the air cleaner with the hood opening but it looks like it's going to be an improvement. I'm going to cut the bottom out of the stocker and offset this base in it, then pop rivet and rtv them together. If you wanted to do a stock appearing thing with an open element to test on it, you could buy that base and cut a stock lid back to look like this:
I don't know how much hood clearance you have, but the taller filter in the picture is for a 1994 1500 pickup. I haven't tried closing the hood, it's going in the black Camaro with the 4" cowl in the background. Those lo3 trucks had much better air cleaner bases, but I don't know how you'd make one look right in a third gen, even if using the shorter f-body air filter and factory lid worked with it (I don't know). 83 Crossfire TA's truck picture for reference:
Nice seat, I wish I could find some nice black/grey pallex rear seats for my Camaro.
Man that’s pretty cool - definitely has a much larger inlet and volume. Though I’m thinking in going to be short on hood clearance with the new Edelbrock intake. The LG4 definitely has the ring in the air cleaner...
Thanks for the generous offer - once again I’m late to the party, RT66 and CT1987 have already broken ground on the LO3/LG4 dual snorkel. I like the look but I’m not sure about moving/losing the overflow bottle.
Im hoping we’ll all get a chance to visit family and cross borders this year. I can’t wait for the car shows and the seat just makes the car look complete.
You’ll need a timing light and either a dial back or timing tape to use this accel distributor.
Quite frankly, after installing this is THE best this engine has ever run in my ownership. The engine is smooth as glass, no more “shark bite” miss. I did dial back the vacuum advance to 3 3/4 turns fir a total of 35*at 3200
About 3 weeks ago I pulled into a gas station in Niagara, there was a young lad with a square body Chevy k20 on a trailer - stripped to the cab but with the driveline in place.
Including the air filter assembly.
After some shrewd haggling (no, not really - he was kind enough to GIVE me the air cleaner assembly, wouldn’t take any money for it) I was the proud owner of a solid but certainly rusty air cleaner with a much larger inlet than the stock unit from my LG4.
The inlet measurements are massive compared to the stock unit, roughly 5x2” vs 1.75 x 3.25”.
I’ve done what I could to mechanically remove this rust with small grinders, steel brushes, white wheels etc, but it’s not doing anything for the rust in the inlet or tight spots.
Time for some better living through chemistry. I’ve got 30 hours of above 0 temps to enjoy, so I’ll make the best of it.
Walmart pan is 24x16x6.5”. With three jugs of vinegar I’m into it for $20 and some sweat equity.
Pickling Vinegar doesn’t smell as strongly as cleaning vinegar, but is only 7% Acid vs 10%. Table vinegar is only 5% and has all the smell. One more jug would’ve been a good idea, but I’ve stretched what I got by filling in voids.
Nice score, right price! That one has the ring in it too, but perhaps there is more space between the top of it and the air cleaner lid? I'd cut and grind that ring down. Careful though, I left some zinc plated caliper brackets soaking in vinegar for too many days. It did some serious rust damage and completely ruined them.
Nice score, right price! That one has the ring in it too, but perhaps there is more space between the top of it and the air cleaner lid? I'd cut and grind that ring down. Careful though, I left some zinc plated caliper brackets soaking in vinegar for too many days. It did some serious rust damage and completely ruined them.
Can you get muriatic acid in Ontario?
Lol, i think I need to rethink this as a value, $40 for the vinegar and the container, a leftover can of rust converter and $20 worth of primer and engine paint, at least 5 hours of labour... I’m glad it was free!
I read in my quadrajet book to leave the ring alone?
This housing cover allows for a 3.5” tall air filter, the Pontiac cover allows 2.5” - so there’s an immediate gain if it all fits under the hood.
I haven’t seen muriatic acid in hardware stores, and my wife is really fussy about what chemicals I bring in the house. I’ll go with the vinegar for now. Agreed, it’s best with steel and iron.
After a week in the sauce, with about 3.5 hours of vinegar sanding and cheek poker. A couple of thin areas in the snorkel, but still very serviceable. Don’t bother to sand prior to vinegar, you’re wasting elbow grease.
Moving on to the lid. Even if I don’t use the base, I might run the lid? It’s pretty rough, will need some filler to smooth out.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 03-06-2021 at 12:08 PM.
Yeah, muriatic acid isn't something you'd even want to use in a shed. Eye protection, catridge mask, gloves to your elbows in the driveway on a warm day kinda deal, neutralize with baking soda. I was able to get a gallon jug of the stuff at Menards here. Only reason I can see leaving the ring is to keep the filter from being potentially soaked with gas? I could probably use educating, but my factory Ford dual snorkel has nothing of the sort.
-3 degrees Celsius, absolutely tropical. Let’s bolt on some suspension goodness.
Excel G struts, Moog sway bar links.
Sucks putting all these new parts against all that rust. I just don’t have room in the garage to pull it further apart. Maybe over my vacation this summer.
Car definitely sits higher, note how the old struts had no “lift” remaining. The suspension actually feels “alive”. Very much worthwhile. Would’ve had new rear shocks and sway bar links but late delivery from RockAuto due to harsh weather in the US.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 03-07-2021 at 03:40 PM.
I just read this entire thread, really enjoyed seeing your progress. Great job so far. I know what you mean about installing new parts, makes everything you haven't had time to work on yet look bad. Eventually you will get to those parts too....just takes time and lots of it.
I just read this entire thread, really enjoyed seeing your progress. Great job so far. I know what you mean about installing new parts, makes everything you haven't had time to work on yet look bad. Eventually you will get to those parts too....just takes time and lots of it.
Thanks for stopping in and the encouragement. One thing about a project this size: there’s lots of it.
I’m doing what I can to “complete” work in areas (like the interior is now “complete”), but some parts just need immediate attention. I’d like to finish up the needs before getting into the wants. Rear shock & sway bar links arrived today, maybe I’ll get that done this weekend. After that, finish the dual cooling fan install and the car will be ready for the streets again.
Truck air cleaner assembly is in primer and had 2 passes with spot putty.
I also removed the plug in the passenger cylinder head and installed the radiator fan switch / mocked up the relay wiring.
I purchased a socket rail of oil drain plug adapters from RockAuto, the 5/16 square drive worked to get the plug loose (actually moved it by tightening first, then loose - always my strategy with pipe thread). Not a great fit, you want all the engagement you can get, and there isn’t much with the standard square drive.
I used the choke wire for the relay coil +ve. There is an existing 14 gauge wire b+ve at the firewall I was able to connect to it for the power side. Lazy, I know but it’s already there... Fuse is a temporary setup (unless it works, then it’s forever, just like the pcv hose).
Last edited by theraymondguy; 03-14-2021 at 04:36 PM.
You need to use the battery charger and washing soda method for rust removal. No harsh chemicals and works amazingly.. check it out.
I watched a number of videos on it, most from MrPete222 (tubalcain) a retired machine shop teacher. He did a side by side comparison with cleaning vinegar and the electrolysis, which the vinegar won cleanly. I won’t lose any sleep dumping vinegar down the drain, it’s as natural as it comes.
I took an entire week to loosen the rust on the air cleaner, I still had to hit it with a wire brush when I was done, but...
it’s coming right along.
1 coat of rust converter, 2 passes with spot putty to clean up the pitting.
Interior sprayed (a little colour on the inside won’t hurt, exterior will be matte black).
New CU951 Spectra Radiator, the original failed due to corrosion.
Relocated fan relays and wiring for a cleaner install. Inline fuse holders with leds to indicate failure. Will be adding a second fan switch to the thermostat housing just to keep a bit more temp control.
Relays hiding along the chassis rail. That little star washer on the battery -ve cable where it mounts on the alternator is critical for sound alternator function, ask me how I know.
New Four Seasons cooling fans, + 1 warranty replacement from RockAuto. All 4 of the originals I bought are now paper weights. Be cautious of excess torque when installing fan blades.
Nice progress! That truck air cleaner looks a lot nicer now!
I saw this air cleaner lid the other day for the stock LG4 assembly to use the truck filter, I didn't know it existed. It's chrome but I'm sure you could make it black. Might not be of any interest to you, might not clear the hood but here's the link:
Nice progress! That truck air cleaner looks a lot nicer now!
I saw this air cleaner lid the other day for the stock LG4 assembly to use the truck filter, I didn't know it existed. It's chrome but I'm sure you could make it black. Might not be of any interest to you, might not clear the hood but here's the link:
Ive not seen that before... the truck filter lid is o so close to clearing, but not. Im not in love with the truck base, missing two hood insulation retainers, they may be part of the issue. Things being what they are, I’m waiting to get them from the local dealer.
New stabilizer bushings installed, really should’ve been done with the stabilizer links for ease.
Found a ‘92 Camaro at Kenny u pull in Hamilton, car had been in there lot no more than 3 days and there wasn’t much left. Seats looked like they’d clean up (dove gray), TPI 305 that looked pretty complete (all the TPI parts present), 10 bolt drum axle.
I got the upper and lower fan shroud bits (they fit much better than the parts I had?), hood insulation pins and the little covers for the front seat tracks.
Searching the yard I found an 86 Fiero and liberated the headlight relays, checked half a dozen Safaris and Astros, all missing their steering shafts.
Still and all, $20 and some pretty rare parts gathered.
Pick up air cleaner lid seems to clear with the hood insulation held up appropriately.
Sub frame connectors, get rid of some rattles and tighten it up. Maybe a wonder bar too...
Welcome to the forum!! Glad to hear memories of your youth caught back up with you, very nice car. Also nice to hear a story of a person's health that is positive!!
Well Buddy it only took a year, but I found an oe wonder bar.
a bit of surface rust on the mounting tabs, but well on the way to cleaning up nicely.
The Latest RockAuto box contains the last of the cooling system bits & pieces.
On the hunt for an Astro van steering shaft (literally every one I’ve seen in the wrecking yard has had them removed), any leads appreciated.
The timing was not right for the purchases I made at St Catherine’s Kenny u pull this weekend, but I’ve wanted these wheels since I saw them on LSX Matt’s TA. Those lips…
Now that Mrs. Theraymondguy is done being mad about the formula wheels, it’s time to test her patience again.
Say hello to my little friend.
Lunati Barebones 10120100LK
421/443 112 LSA - I believe this is the cam Derek from VGG used on his 307 build for the ratty chevelle aka Rocky. Seems fitting.
yes, Mrs Roadrace is a seasoned veteran of unexpected race car parts deliveries. In fact I had a Crower cam and assorted required valvetrain components delivered earlier this year. Luckily a friend of mine also had some components sent to my house so I was able to disguise the nature of my expenditure…
my advice: say it’s for a friend…😂
yes, Mrs Roadrace is a seasoned veteran of unexpected race car parts deliveries. In fact I had a Crower cam and assorted required valvetrain components delivered earlier this year. Luckily a friend of mine also had some components sent to my house so I was able to disguise the nature of my expenditure…
my advice: say it’s for a friend…😂
Lol, I’ve just discovered the “have it delivered to my work option”. Initially thinking about thwarting porch pirates, but for keeping the peace at home…
The stock Borg Warner open 3.27 rear has been making noise, clunks going into gear. I tracked down to the diff, the pinion is fine. Probably not a surprise after 36 years of one wheel peels. This has been getting worse in the past year, now that the car is really making good power (with what’s there) it’s notable on deceleration as well.
Locally as you’re probably aware, anything 9 bolt is worth good money, I’ve seen $600 asking prices on tall ratio (2.7x) assemblies.
If I’m going into this I’m going all the way. Posi, shorter gear, disc brakes. I want the car to leave at the light, make the most of the power that’s available, and at a price I can justify.
Plucked from a ‘97 Camaro RS with an automatic, this little guy checks all the boxes.
3.42, posi, disc brakes for $225. I’m very pleased. It’s got some weight reduction, but not enough to worry. Wire wheel should knock off the bigger chunks and Tremclad to rejuvenate, bring the shine back.
You’ll remember the Formula wheels? They’ll help some with the wider axle width.
it’s all coming together, like there was a plan or something.
About 15”Hg at idle, 750 rpm out of gear. In the video it’s in gear, holding 550 rpm - its lean, need to go back into the Quadrajet and go through the idle circuit.
Yeah, that's a smooth-idling cam. Even the one I have in a Ford 302 (shorter stroke than your 305) idles smooth at 215°/224° @ .050, 112 LSA. That car doesn't have power brakes, so I could have gone with a tighter LSA for more peak power and a nice lopey idle. I actually don't want a lopey idle with the Firebird...
Exactly, for my wife and I the car needs to be a driver - something you can hammer the brakes on and stab the gas without worry.
I had some good weather this afternoon, it’s been raining for the last few days and the car needs a wash after having my grubby hands all over it for the last week…
Time to shake it down.
The quadrajet isn’t ready for the cam, it needs work on the idle circuit (barely holds idle in gear at 15-16 inHg) but MAN, did the cam ever wake up the little LG4! It sounds phenomenal (comparably) under load. It pulls like a bad dentist all the way to redline. The 204/214 grind matches up really well with the 1.84/1.50 valves and flow of the 416 heads.
Im not super in love with the 700r4 trans, it likes to lock up 2nd and 3rd a bit early (yes, I did reset the tv cable), but that’ll change somewhat when I move to the 4th gen 3.42 axle so I’ll wait for that before overthinking and making a meal out of nothing on that.
I’m excited to continue on with the project, to be honest it was killing me having the cam and intake on the shelf and not having the time to do it “right” - painting etc. I’ll be going through the carb (again) next week, opening up the idle circuit. I don’t want the engine to get halfway up to temp, so I won’t be running it again until spring unless we have another unseasonably warm spell and cleanish roads. I’ll be moving my focus likely to refinishing the 16” Formula wheels and installing the 4th gen axle.
Attached an in gear at idle video. The mic on my phone does it no justice.
PS - the success of the cam install is owed in no small part to advise received from the folks in the general tech forum here on thirdgen.
I redid the valve preload again (looking for any leftover advantage), and I confirmed all the pushrods are turning well when the engine is at crank rpm.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 12-31-2021 at 06:28 PM.
That cam produces plenty of vacuum and should not affect the carb at all. You probably have some other tuning issue.
Set your initial timing at 12° to 14° and adjust the mixture screws for maximum vacuum at 800 RPM in Neutral...
I agree, not great. I retorque the carb and found modest leak at the brake booster, set idle in neutral to 800 and it's up to 19". The carb is ultra lean on idle circuit, I'm leaving it at this point until my tools come in so I can recalibrate the idle circuit. The nozzles are wet at idle, it's clearly not happy.
Great thread and a really clean T/A. These cars are getting harder and harder to find. 20+ years ago I'd go to junkyards in central FL as kid in HS and third gens were everywhere...now days, the ones I've hit up in/around the Houston area completely void of third gens, in fact you're lucky to see a 4th gen at all.
I love how so much of this whole thread has been conservative and (in my opinion) very budgeted. I wish I had that discipline with mine lol...
Looking closer at a few of your pics, (not sure if this was mentioned previously either but) it looks like you have a later (87+) short block. Had it been replaced at some point? I say that because '86 and older blocks had the oil dipstick on the driver side, yours however is on the passenger (like all later, most of them if not all roller blocks)...
'82-'86 had the oil dipstick tube on the passenger side...
I believe you are correct! I had to do some digging around but apparently around '79-'80 (depending on the application) they reconfigured some blocks for a passenger side dipstick 🤯🤔
I was always under the assumption that in '87 when the roller block/center blot valve cover/1 piece rear main blocks made it out the door that the dipstick switch happened as well.
Great thread and a really clean T/A. These cars are getting harder and harder to find. 20+ years ago I'd go to junkyards in central FL as kid in HS and third gens were everywhere...now days, the ones I've hit up in/around the Houston area completely void of third gens, in fact you're lucky to see a 4th gen at all.
I love how so much of this whole thread has been conservative and (in my opinion) very budgeted. I wish I had that discipline with mine lol...
Looking closer at a few of your pics, (not sure if this was mentioned previously either but) it looks like you have a later (87+) short block. Had it been replaced at some point? I say that because '86 and older blocks had the oil dipstick on the driver side, yours however is on the passenger (like all later, most of them if not all roller blocks)...
Thank you. I've been a bit too cost conscious at times, I regret my header purchase the most (minor leak, poor ground clearance) - it's hard to consider something a value when you're having to put out more money to replace it.
4th gen v6 cars can occasionally be found in our yards, there's 2 v8 third gens I'm aware of in the area but they got picked clean by "pros" long before schmucks like me heard about them.
The vin number is on the front of engine (pad by the passenger cylinder head) - casting number by distributor and punched numbers on the same pad up front all check out too. I had a friend offer a Vortec 305 to me for free in need of rebuild - I declined. I'll be putting those rebuild dollars into the 416 heads with z28 springs, valve job and light port.
That's all after get the Quadrajet sorted. I'm lucky enough to have a thread running with Cliff Ruggles on his website. I'll document the outcome/recipe in the carburetor section here. The mid 80s export quadrajets are right full off mystery, like the vacuum advance being pointed to by a spare idle tube. Its intended to be restricted manifold vacuum on the 17085580 1985 export qjet that is controlled by a coolant temperature switch.
That tidbit only cost me 2 years of research to uncover and some of my hairline. I'll leave it here for free.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 01-25-2022 at 07:33 PM.
That cam produces plenty of vacuum and should not affect the carb at all. You probably have some other tuning issue.
Set your initial timing at 12° to 14° and adjust the mixture screws for maximum vacuum at 800 RPM in Neutral...
You were absolutely right T.L. I got the quadrajet dialed in (recalibrate idle tubes, down channel restrictions, idle screw ports etc), it’s silky smooth. Steady 19”Hg it a little more at 700 rpm, 10* initial on the emissions vacuum port.
12-14-2020, 05:30 PM
