KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Well the first commute to work (120 mi round trip) was uneventful. A little pinging and an idiot light but nothing a tune up won't fix.

The real excitement came tonight when I was on my way back to the mechanics shop so he can put on the last flex brake line tomorrow. Just as I was passing his Dad's shop (sand & gravel) one of his boys in a backhoe pulls out right in front of me!!! All I could see was the blade of the backhoe heading right for my windshield and my head. Luckily, well maybe skill too, those Jim Russel racing courses have helped, I got around him on the far shoulder! Thank God nobody was coming the other way or it would have been bad. Two wheels in the dirt and man was it close!!!!

I'm still shaking. Going to go have a drink now.

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Well the second commute to work was eventful. The alternator crapped out and stranded us alongside the Queensway in Ottawa at rush hour.

1. Boost from tow truck $50
2. Tow from tow truck $140
3. Alternator from Crappy Tire $300

All in all a fairly pricey commute!

t-top havoc

iTrader: (3)

Geez Knotty, Sorry to hear the not-so-good-news! BUT GLAD you're ok from the back hoe incident! Hopefully this is the last thing to get done so you & Mrs. can go for a nice drive!!

t-top havoc

iTrader: (3)

Man-that's sounds like a change of BVD's would've been on the list! Must have been a very close one! Glad you made it without a serious incident! I hope this trip tothe mechanic is the last one so you & the Mrs can go cruuuuzin" ! Best of luck!

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Thnx T-Top.

I guess it's just fate. You have to earn the right to drive one of these things. My faith is just being tested. I felt sorry for my carpool buddies who I left on the side of the road! That's the second time I've stranded them on the same stretch of highway. First time the fuel filter blew off my Jimmy and killed the engine in the fast lane. I stalled out in the fast lane this time too and had just 'nuff momentum to get us to the shoulder and out of the way.

My hat goes off to the guys at Canadian Tire on Carling Ave. They got me back up and running in just over an hour.

Dodged a $110 ticket too when the cop who stopped ran my plates and they came back with expired temp permit (1 day over)! He was a decent fella!

I think I'll drive the Wrangler tomorrow!

t-top havoc

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like you caught a couple good breaks with the shop & the cop! ((sorry about the double reply-the cmputer is ssslllooowww & I got bumped off the net 3x. Calling the night over for myself)) Good luck Knotty

Dodgeismo

Just heard about your dilemna,....wow! that's not fun, (I broke down on the 401 back in 2000 during rush hour), ...ever notice how many people just pull right over to assist?....ZERO! ..but I did notice a few camera flashes as they whisked by smiling. (Just so you are prepared,..you only need to bring $300 with you for tommorrows commute, as your "Wrangler's" parts will be cheaper to purchase!... ha! ha!), .. really though,..glad you made it home OK.

camarodude9d2

I believe that it says "automatic overdrive"

camarodude9d2

I believe that it says "automatic overdrive"

Dodgeismo

I believe you're correct...also, doesn't it light up when you're IN overdrive?

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

I think you're all correct. I was thinking of putting a small engraved plaque on there with something like "Gas, Grass or ***, Nobody Rides For Free" but that's too wordy. Maybe "Life Begins @ 150 MPH" or "Sit Down Shut UP Hold On"

camarodude9d2

Mine doesn't light up either. Hope it's not supposed to, so I don't have more things to fix. haha

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Update: Well we've been enjoying our ole' IROC a bit. A few date nights out for movies & stuff. Snubbed by quite a few 4th Gen TA's & mousetangs but who cares eh?

At some point in time this car had been lowered. Ride height is about 26" which I'm lead to believe is about 1.5" lower than original. I'd like to get it back to the original height but if I just put OEM springs back in will I have to change the shocks & struts too?

Car still stumbles after the idiot light comes on. Dunno what's causing it yet but I've ordered a code scanner to find out. Definitely needs minimum a good tune up. Will get to that next week. The ole' woman has be installing hardwood floors in the living room, Ohhhhhh my achin' back!!! I'd rather be crawling around underneath the car on the cold wet grass!

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Bought myself an AutoXRay thingy to diagnose an idiot light. OMG I've got the infamous Code 33!!

Would one of those Granatelli adjustable MAF's be a quick and easy fix?

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Ayup!

Brisk

iTrader: (25)

Good job saving another one from the scrap yard! I wish you good luck in continuing your project.

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Chris. You've got a couple of nice lookin' Camaro's in your stable. :-)

I'm still chasin' some gremlins (Code 33) and somethin' keeps killin' the battery. This ole' rust bucket will be a few more years (and a pile of cash) before it gets to where I want it to be.

Nope! The $300 diagnostic confirmed the MAF isn't the problem. Onto the next step! Duh!

I do have to admit the new MAF breathed some life into the ole' boat anchor! ;-) All that fresh air made it come alive. I was rollin' out of a corner in 1st about 20 kms and nailed it! She broke the tires loose with very little effort! I don't remember my original '87 doing that at all!!

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

So I scored a deal on a Motorvation Stage II chip for a 5.7 lt TPI. It was cheap so I went for it. Went to swap it into the car and found the car already had a HyperTech chip in it! Doh! Call me a doofus I don't care. Anyhow, swapped out the HyperTech and installed the Motorvation.

Initial observations are the Motorvation chip is much more hmmmm? driver friendly. I'd have to say over all it makes the car nicer to drive. Better shift points. No more ultra-rich start ups. Converter doesn't lock up as early etc. Ultra smooth idle. Combined with the new MAF (previous post) the car seemed to just "come alive"!

Sorry I don't have any quantifiable results to back up my observations. Maybe someday the ole' rust bucket will make it to a drag strip!

Brisk

iTrader: (25)

I'd be willing to bet that your code 33 is coming from the MAF burn off relay. I've owned four third gens and on three of my cars the burn off relay turned out to be the problem. The one car I purchased from the US has not had this problem, yet. Must have something to do with our Canadian winters, or something... I've attached a repair flow chart for diagnosing code 33, hopefully it will help you.

One thing to check for killing your battery is the power hatch motor (I recall reading you rebuilt yours). When closing your hatch listen for the motor to engauge and pull the hatch shut, then listen for a click. If you do not hear the click, which means the motor has traveled to its limit, it is still running and trying to pull the hatch closed. Unfortunatly it doesn't have this tip in any repair manual I've read.

I too was stumped because I couldn't figure out why something was killing my battery, it wasn't until I sold the car that the new owner found the problem and informed me on what it was.

Hopefully this helps you repair a couple more gremlins, good luck!

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the tips Chris. I appreciate it. It all adds up to at least some understanding over time (I hope). I thought I had found the problem. Get a load of this....



That's the MAF power relay. Looks like someone was yankin' on the wires trying to disconnect it and pulled all the insulation from the wires. They tried to cover it all up with electrical tape which may have worked for awhile. I managed to find one pigtail at the junkyard and spliced it in hoping this would clear the code but it didn't. Cleaned all the connections etc. I've got another pigtail like this on the fuel pump relay. Gonna have to find another one to fix that.

Anywho, still have the code after driving for a few kms. You can feel the transmission burp a few times then sure as sh*t the idiot light comes on. It's pretty consistant when it happens. I've ordered new MAF burn off and power relays to swap these out.

Also gotta get a new volt meter to start using the diagnostic chart you posted. Left mine out on the dash of the boat a month ago and it melted in the sun! Doh!

Standby.....

MFaust89

sorry to bring it back, but im experiencing that same problem. even on the back of my car.. stupid wiring there. i wonder if my car belonged to an TGO memberif i have time tomorrow i gonna create an thread and show pictures.

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Just take your time. Clip one wire at a time and test to see if it has an affect on the car starting etc. It took me the better part of two hours to get it cleaned up. A test light is a must. Good luck!

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

No such luck Brisk. Changed out the MAF power & burn-off relays. I also found two vac lines undone that go the the TPI throttle body. Car now runs like absolute crap and the ijjit light comes on almost immediately. Picked up a voltmeter so I'll print up your diagnostic chart and start at it tonight.

Dodgeismo

You "DO" have the proper, Motorvation Chip #187201for the "1987 Chevrolet Camaro Iroc Z28 350 TPI"? Erase the trouble codes off your computer and then drive it around for a week or so,..as it has to learn all over again, hence the rough/stumble syndrome. Maybe also unplug that vac line, re-set your timing, and re attach vac line and,(if your vac lines were un-plugged this whole time...and you just re-hooked them...your timing WILL be off).....+ If these "symptoms persist,...post what is happening. Good luck.

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Hey Dodgy. Wondered where you were.

I did all that stuff. Now I've got another "Typical" SNAFU. I did the diagnostic on the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) and the voltage was way too low! (.22 volts instead of .54 volts). So I go to loosen the TPS to adjust and twisted off both machine screws holding it to the TPI housing. Doh!

This low voltage could be the root of my problem. Now I gotta go get some 8-32 machine screws and drill/re-tap. *sigh* But we're getting there though!

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

More mysterious broken things.

What's this? Is there supposed to be something attached to it?



As you can see the heat selector thingy is broken. Looking for whatever I need to fix that so if you got it I'll buy it.

Today is one of those days I'd like to take the PO that molested this car and string him up by his short & curlies.

Just a few of the lil' tidbits the PO left me with to fix are:

1. Cover for the inline fuse for the main 12V feed to the ECM is missing. Fuse has corroded.
2. Broken heat selector as noted above
3. Cooling fan switch bypassed so fan comes on with ign key in run pos'n.
4. Cig lighter shorts out and takes the stereo & lights with it! *lol*

More stuff yet to be discovered I'm sure. Standby.....

Dodgeismo

I might be wrong,..but without any research, or more info/pic to go on,(is this under the dash on center console area by firewall?)...it looks to me, as if the plastic directional heat tube,(squared off and two ports point towards the back,...to supply warm/hot air to the rear seating area via the floor route. It attaches there with a wing nut.

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

I'll look closer tomorrow. Its on the floor on the passenger side. Kinda looks like a vacuum connection or somethin'

Dodgeismo

Yeah, I believe a fair size hunk of a plastic , square?, tube type contraption, hooks up to it,(your vacuum port...), and 1 of the ports ends actually point to the drivers side floor by your feet, and the other tube points towards the passenger floor area,...to feed warm air to the passengers' feet, (and not what I said before). Unit is Held in place by snapping end into "vacuum port, and a "wing nut" on your bolt end that's sticking out in your pic.[Remember this old saying? .... "I'm 100% positive,.... I think."] ...ha ha.. keep us posted.

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Well that went pretty much as I expected (FUBAR).

I removed the throttle body to drill out the broken off machine screws. Did that on the drill press. Had to go a lil' larger then OEM screws (10-32) which were just a lil' too big and I must have gotten the new threaded holes a lil' cockeyed cause it bound up the TPS when I reinstalled it and you guessed it! I broke the TPS.

So PO'd as I was at my own incometence I logged to TPI Parts on E-Bay and ordered a new "Polished" Throttle body, TPS and a pile of pigtails cause pretty much every one I disconnected tonight broke!.

I'll look at that other thing tomorrow night Dodgy. Standby....

t-top havoc

iTrader: (3)

Knotty-well now you get a PRETTY piece to go on! Maybe you can even get that piece for the floor?? Sorry bad things had to happen! I hope tomorrow goes good for you!

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Thnx for the kind words TTH. I think I said before these cars were designed to test our faith!

I've complained for years about ****-poor GM engineering having rebuilt my '99 Jimmy twice over (second transmission just went in it this week). For some strange reason they're (rehab projects) are attracted to me!

I did spend a few extra bucks and got the polished throttle body!

91Z-TheReaper

Hey Knotty...

Maybe this will make you a feel a bit better...we briefly talked about how we were on the same 'restore schedule' and the E-Test thing (I passed by the way). Still running the 305 chip. No VSS either as tranny is electronic and speedo is cable. Doesn't go into error mode though until I drive for about 5 minutes or I downshift hard into 2nd. Runs fantastic before the error code displays. Runs near great after the error codes.

Mine sat for 4 years.

Rebuild Motor - $2800
Remove/Install Motor/Tranny + 1LE Brake Conversion + New Clutch + Various Sensors + Alternator + Serp + Plugs + Wires etc... - $2200

2 Weeks later rad goes down.

New Aluminum Rad + Fan Toggle Switch + Labor - $720 (Picked it up yesterday afternoon and I've never had a 3rd gen run cooler)

This morning on way into work, I downshift into 3rd and 'clink, clink, clink'. Can feel it through the stick and it doesn't sound good one bit. Sounds like a bearing (fingers crossed). Initial quote (if only bearing on 3rd - $500) Probably end up being a full rebuild though.

Basically a month of driving has cost me about $6000. I truly feel your pain, although I'm not chasing gremlins. Mine is more wear and tear, but I'm almost starting to feel like I was better off leaving it sit in the driveway.

Need to do the tranny and get all 4 tires still.

I didn't feel very cool without my 'Maro, but my pocket sure was fatter and I definitely had a lot less stress.

Good luck with the rest of your monster.

Chris

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Well Reaper, I guess we're true masochists (sp) eh? Man these things can suck up a ton of cash in a short period of time. It's almost as bad as my boat. You do know what "BOAT" stands for eh? "Break Out Another Thousand"! If I were to hazard a guess that 4 yr project set me back about $10K.

I'm almost afraid to update my project totals. I'm sure I'm nowhere near your $6K .... yet....

But ya know, when you're out there cruisin', whether its the car or the boat, you're in command and it's worth every friggin' penny. (that's my opinion not the ole' lady's) *lol*

Glad ya passed the smog test. I'm lucky, mine didn't need one. Dunno if it would have passed or not. My buddy keeps offering to run it in training mode to see if it would have. If I ever get it running right I might take him up on the offer.

I was thinkin' last night, we got these things to tinker with anyways, that way we have a "legitimate" excuse to avoid household chores!

The Project

iTrader: (6)

Hey Knotty,

Don't feel bad. I've spent just over $12,000 on parts for my car. Currently the car has no motor, trans, wiring harness, rubber or stereo! I just spent $2,900 or so putting an NOS black interior back in her. Next is to pull the front end apart so I can paint the engine bay and hopefully get it together so I can dirve her next year........hopefully

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/show...7&goto=newpost

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

I've been following your project project! *lol* The disco ball really sets the theme for the interior!

Between you, Dodgy, Reaper and myself we're keeping the thirdgen parts industry in Ontario alive methinks!

I'm almost afraid to update the total so far for fear the ole' woman will kill me. I just paid off $5K on my Mastercard! *sigh*

Anyhow, update: New MAF, new Throttle Body, new TPS etc. The new throttle body is a lil' sticky but it'll work itself out. Car runs well. Have to make a few minor adjustments to get the idle correct but it appears the Code 33 is gone! We'll put a few miles on it this weekend just to make sure.

So I go into the local Chebby dealer today to find some "Jeezus" clips. You know those screwy lil' things that hold on the throttle & TV cable. The ones that always flip off and end up on the intake or the long grass under the car and you say "Jeezus"! Well they didn't have any. The parts guy says: "Come with me I got what'll fix your problem" and we walk out into the showroom and there's a 2010 SS in Hugger Orange! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! "Jeeeeeezus"! If the divorce weren't so freakin' expensive and I know she'd end up with the Camaro I'd go for it!

Canadian Tire came through with the solution for my "Jeezus" clip dilema.

I did find this lil' gem on e-Bay. It's for measuring the voltage on the TPS. Very handy. I hate like h*ll to splice into OEM wiring. Cost me about $20 with shipping, taxes etc.



I tried to find one for the MAF connector but had no luck.

Standby....

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Well the new throttle body, Power Products #69704 from TPI Parts is a P.O.S. (http://www.professional-products.com/throttleLT1.php) To make a long story short it sticks, bad!!! Here's the response I sent to Professional Products about their TB....Standby.... let's see what they say....

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

It never rains but it pours. We just toasted the engine in our boat. Lost raw water cooling before I noticed the temp guage pinned. Now it won't start, just goes "Clunk"! I'm guessin' bent crank or valves. Anybody wanna buy a cheap boat?

89junkyardgta

Wow man, you are having a heck of a time. Firstly, have you already bought a TB from Holley? Did you try WD-40 or something to try to loosen Professional Products TB up? Is the shaft sticking, or are the plates sticking in the bores? Could be something as small as the bushings on the shaft are just a little tight. As as far as the boat motor, did you shut it down before it stopped, or did it stop running on its own?

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

The plates were sticking in the bores, bad. I just spoke with the Pro Products guy, he was decent enough to call. He said send it back to the dealer for warranty replacement so I guess I'll have one to sell.

I've got a Holley on the way. Hopefully it'll be here soon. I'm kinda gettin' tired of fixin' sh*t all the time.

We limped back to the dock and got it shut down before it quit (seized up). I pulled the plugs on the boat this morning, pumped out all the water, each cylinder had some in it. This happens when you overheat a boat, it's called reversion or something like that, when the steam inside the engine condenses it sucks water up through the exhaust. I WD40'd all the cylinders then took the raw water pump apart. This is what I found.....



If you're sayin' to yourself "that ain't right" you're right. This impeller is only 2 yrs old so I must have pulled something through the pump to rip it up that bad. Fished out all the rubber parts I could and buttoned it all back up. New plugs and it fired right up. Runs a lil' rough but that's to be expected. When it cools down I'll change the oil and set the timing. Hopefully it'll hold together....

89junkyardgta

Hmmm..yup, that looks wrong. I hate it when parts look like that. Unfortunately, you might be fixing stuff for a while. Seems to be the way these cars are. I currently am having some obscure transmission problem....car shakes in every gear, including park and neutral. I thought it was the torque converter. Put a new one in. Still no good. I have no idea. Me and the converter are going to the rebuilder to have a little chat. I think this new one is out of balance too.

As far as your TB goes, if they can get it fixed, I might have use for your spare.

Glad to hear your boat is still alive. I figured as long as you didn't take it to the 'sounds like a bag of hammers' stage, it would be ok..at least for a little while.

Good luck!!

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

That's weird. No funny noises? Could your driveshaft be out of whack? My ole' 340 Duster had that problem. A good machine shop can rebalance that pretty easily.

They're going to replace it under warranty. Cover my cost and it's yours.

http://www.professional-products.com/throttleLT1.php #69704

Well I've killed a few motors over the years. I recognize the "bag of hammers" sound all too well. Usually I just turn up the stereo and keep on truckin'! *lol* That strategy doesn't work too well though and I've learned a few things the hard way.

I'm thinkin' I'll pull the heads this winter just in case we screwed up a head gasket or something. Not really a big job on a boat. Plenty of room to work. Toughest part is standing on your head to torque them back on.

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Another $300 and we're back in the game! The Holley went in with absolutely no problems. Started right up!!! Ran like a charm. No Idiot light either!



Rigged and ready to go in. Sweeeeeeeeeeet!

Killed a hopped up F150 with a couple "Good Ole' Boys" in it on the test drive. I don't think they even saw me comin' up on their **** at 100 mph! They probably spit their Billy Beer all over themselves!

t-top havoc

iTrader: (3)

Knotty--I have the PERFECT solution that would mean you NEVER have to worry abuot it again--just GIVE it to ME!! Serious tho- wwith the time//effort you & Mrs. have in it,I hope anything else is just normal stuff! Best to ya!!

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Ya know at this point I might take you up on the offer TTH! The freakin' Idiot light came back on this morning. I didn't have my code scanner but I'm guessin' it's the same Code 33.

Car acted the same anyways. I've replaced everything in the system that can throw this code and am now down to the ECM. How do I proceed now? Yank it out and get another one? Yeah yeah yeah I know I'll check voltages to the ECM first. Maybe put the Hypertech chip back in and see if that helps.

This whole song and dance is gettin' a lil' old.

89junkyardgta

I am just going to throw this out there. Does the idiot light coming on have anything to do with the thermostat opening? Give this a try. Unplug the oxygen sensor and run the car. This prevents the computer from going into 'closed loop' so its running off its pre-programmed settings rather than actually "reading" the info the car is sending it. At least that's how I think it works, feel free to correct me. I would guess that if the light is coming on later as you are driving, that it might be when it goes into closed loop. Is the oxygen sensor new? Did you do that tuneup you were talking about? Another thirdgen guy I've been talking to was throwing a code 33 because of bad spark plug wires. And besides, a nice new set of wires and plugs will make it run much better. Throw in a good coil while you are at it. Good luck.

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

I'm at a loss to see a link to any specific condition when the code pops. It can be 30 secs after I start the car or it can be an hour of running on the highway. Usually it's 3-5 mins after driving which, as you said, may be related to car warming up to op temperature. Certainly nothing logical about it. Where's the O2 sensor located (don't laugh 'cause I'm stupid I's only gots a grade 6 edumacation ya know!).

No, see previous response!

Good another thing to check! *sigh* I'm thinking if I can find a mechanic who really knows these cars & TPI's they can figure it out 'cause I'm gettin' just a lil' bit frustrated with it.

Luck has nothing to do with it! The quest for a properly running TPI (if that's at all possible) continues..... Standby....

Thnx JYGTA I appreciate it.

89junkyardgta

Oxygen sensor - purple wire running near the drivers side manifold. Sensor is in the manifold near the downturn, plug is near the front of the manifold, black. Unplug it there. And education doesn't mean much. I have a bunch of years of education...isn't helping me much.



I think we can get it here. Start rooting through the TPI board. I have fixed some of my issues using info there.



No problem. I just can't figure out why your car is being so stubborn. My wreck has been sitting for 3 years and it only took a couple weeks (over two years I might add) to get the TPI worked out. MAF, TPS, ign. module, tune-up. Done.

Dodgeismo

"Wholly crap"!!!!, ... I go work out of town for a bit of work and come back to a whole lotta broke stuff happen'in here. First of all... thank god the boat motor didn't totally seize on ya, hope it lasts the rest of the season, before the winter rebuild. 2nd,.. I wish I could have told you to use WD-40 and "break" in that throttle plate,... was it sticking that bad? usually 30 minutes of turning, (co-ercing), it back and forth, with the odd 'Wd-40' spray in between, helps 'loosen' that stiff stickiness attribute out of it.(has worked for me a few times...only twice had to return for refund). Got me some long awaited parts from "Calgary Pick-a-Part", and picked up the wife a very descent, 1997 Pontiac Grand Prix GT with the 3800 series ll V-6, (only 161,000 km.), ... couldn't pass up a fully loaded one for a measly $1500.00 (can.$). p.s. code #33 also depicts error for the MAP sensor, not just the MAF.

KnottyBuoyz

iTrader: (2)

Hey Dodgy. Wondered where you went. Nice find on the Grand Am.

I was totally unimpressed with the Power Products TB. Nowhere near the quality they described on their website. The Holley is a huge order of magnitude better engineered than the other one. Now I have two spares! *lol*

Had a couple of short runs on the car and no idiot light. We're going to put 100 miles or so on it today so we'll see if it behaves.

Standby....