palric

iTrader: (1)

hey all,

For the first time in a long time I had to get an emissions test. It failed.

got crushed on NOX the allowable was like 650 and I drew 992


EGR is one year old. O2 sensor is new. Injectors are new. EGR plumbing seems to be working I took it al apart and didn't see any blockages.

The car runs great, starts right away never even cranks, idles dead smooth.

stumped.

any suggestions?

Daz

iTrader: (1)

tune up,oil change,fuel filter,PCV etc

Shift06

NOx could be your converter. Nitrogens of Oxide are caused by high CC temperatures, so you may be running hot for some reason as well. Do you have the right heat range plugs? Thermostat to high a temp?

laiky

retard the timing slightly. and you might be a tad lean. cat is also a likely culprit, how old is it?

freestylzz

All good suggestions.

Full tune up (cap, rotor, plugs, wires, pcv, air filter) including timing.

Change oil before running. Run car at temperature for several minutes before doing test.

New cat would def help.

I run my fuel low before test and add a special clean burning fuel (not stuff you get at Crappy Tire).

Try to get someone who can do a "dummy" run for you so as you can see what kind of readings your car is spitting out.


OR, pay someone to "PASS" it for you (it's getting harder and more expensive to find someone nowadays).


OR, goout and get an '87 or older emission exempt vehicle and tell the Ministry to go **** themselves

canadian250

Emissions? what's that?

palric

iTrader: (1)

hey all

thx for the comments

if you know my car you know it won't ever need a tune up I do that stuff even when it doesn't need it -- just for fun.

so it has new everything plugs, cap, rotor, wires, EGR, PCV, mobil, air pump and so on. I did the O2 but it didn't help but atleast the new one has a longer wire so I can thread it past the headers. Thermostat is a 170 and the plugs are platinums.

The cats are 17 years old though. I had it in mind to replace them last year and have a couple of CATCOs on the way (eBAY). Hopefully will have them in this week.

One alternative is to have Pro-cision Auto install my new cam ($400) and use that receipt for a conditional pass. Ynot???

Daz

iTrader: (1)

Where's the timing set at?Which heat range platinum plugs?170 degree thermostat should be changed to stock..What temp does the fan turn on?..If its the same as stock then maybe the coolant doesnt have time to cool down in the rad since the stat is open all the time.

canadian250

I agree with Daz, change the thermostat to the factory 195*. That and your new cats should be all you need to pass the test.

I believe you have to spend something like $600 in repairs before you can get a conditional pass. Even then, it's only good for a year. Good luck with it.

gt500pwr

If you're running hedders and/or big exhaust the egr will be the culprit. I had the same issues with '91 camaro RS 305. Slightly modified but the big exhaust doesn't allow for proper backpressure functioning of the EGR system that was designed for these cars. Never did solve it, some suggestions but just ended up getting the pass. The mechanic I had it at said i needed to have an analysis done, cost about $100. The fact that I had a new cat put on didn't make a lick 'o difference.

Hope that helps.

palric

iTrader: (1)

???? I have had headers and hiflow on these cars before and passed no sweat. Lotsa people have.

Hey it can't hurt to swap the cats they are 17 years old....

palric

iTrader: (1)

Well I have to work the car hard to get the temp up to operating range it usually runs pretty cool. During each test though we have it running very hot to get the cats to light off. For what it is worth I think I have a 180 not a 170.

About the conditional pass, the shop says they are good for 2 years and you have to spend up to $450 and can actually spend less depending on circumstances. But you can't sell the car on a conditional -- not that I want to sell my car.

The emissions guidelines are not very clear in some areas and I find that shops interpret them differently. Emissions are great when you are passing them and a REAL pain otherwise. I have spent $100 or more on test and re-test and it ain't over yet.

canadian250

I stand corrected. The conditional pass is in fact $450, and it's good for 2 years.

I had an old minivan that failed the test a few years ago. I put a new converter on it, and it passed no preblem. Just make sure it's running nice and hot when you get it done. A little blast on the hiway will take care of that

MonteCarSlow

I vote for new cat(s) too. I had to install a new one to get my car to pass (and it has no EGR or air injection).

Shift06

If your cats are 17 years old, I wouldn't be surprised if they were empty haha.

johnyIROC

I also agree that the cats are most likely your problem... they are not designed to last that long. Your car is mild enough that it should have no problem passing emissions. Mine is carbed with 11:1CR and a comp XE284H and it passed with flying colours.

freestylzz

That's good for 1 year, not 2.

And I believe you can sell a car with a conditional pass but you have to disclose it to the buyer and it's up to the buyer to ensure it passes the emission re-test.

canadian250

Nope, check the drive clean website bud. Conditional passes are now good for 2 years. I thought the same thing as it use to be good for only 1 year. And you can't change ownerships with a conditional pass. I believe the new owner can't use a conditional pass to put vehicle on the road.

freestylzz

Ahhhhhhh. Cool. I stand corrected.

"Once repaired, your vehicle must be re-tested. If you fail the re test, you can obtain a conditional pass which will allow the registration to be renewed for a two year period. The maximum fee for a re-test is $17.50, plus applicable taxes. You are allowed up to two re-tests at $17.50 each after repairs, as long as they are performed at the facility that performed the initial test."

So as to the selling, would it be possible to sell a car "as is" and disclosing to the buyer upon the sale that it is his responsibility to get an emmission certificate? Or does the seller have to have a valid pass certificate given to the new buyer upon the sale? (I'm sure the buyer has to present a passing emission certificate to the Ministry to plate the new car no?)

canadian250

The seller can sell the car certified as all that means is that it's mechanically road worthy. It doesn't have to be sold as is. The buyer will then have to get a emissions pass before he can plate the car. The seller in under no obligation to sell it with a emissions pass. Safety and emissions are two different things that are done apart from each other. Of course one isn't any good without the other for putting a car on the road.

freestylzz

Makes sense.


You know the Ministry seems to be constantly changing things leaving the average joe completely clueless.

Cash grabs all over the place......

6speedIROC

iTrader: (3)

I say check the timing first if everything is in order.
The techs can run a 'training' run if you're real nice, so you can get results that way without running a legit test.
Make sure the car and the cat is HOT when you test it. Leave the car running before the test to keep it hot.
Check out these results from my car with NO cat on it...
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/thir...st-e-test.html
My truck failed with the timing out 2 degrees. Made a decent difference.

patgta

I was in a similiar situation in Feb07 when i had to get my car emission tested. Basically i failed in HCs and was borderline with NOX.

To make a three week story short, to solve the NOX problem I had to replace my thermostat (with stock one, 195) and replace my bosch platiums with stock ac delco plugs (the heat range on the platiums are a little off). Basically what was happening in my car was the coolant temp would be off and the ECM would start retarding the timing and my NOX would hit 800.

To fix the HC problem I bought a new 3 inch universal cat, because the high flow performance one I had was lazy (meaning not reaching operating temp)

Hope this helps

Pat

palric

iTrader: (1)

i passed the test. Ended up taking the car into a shop they ran some purge system through the intake and blew some crap out dunno what

the car passed with flying colors after that.

canadian250

That's good to hear.

freestylzz

Speaking of emission, I had to install a new cat for my daily driver. The old one rotted out so I had straight-piped the car for a couple years.

Anyhow, I thought I might get better gas mileage but in fact there in no change at all.

The Project

iTrader: (6)

Does anyone know if the 20 year exemption is still in effect and until when. I was hoping that after I pass emissions with my 89 that I could then take all the smog stuff off as it will be 20 years old next time I have to test it again.

George

From the driveclean site:

"As well, 20-year-old light-duty vehicles, which have a high risk of being serious polluters, will now require testing, with 1988 and newer model year vehicles staying in the program."

Even if the car didn't require testing it still has to have the factory emissions crap on it. The MTO has roadside spotchecks for this and the fines are quite steep.