83TransAmDayton

Id like to see that too, but them motors more for racing in A time class then street driving with the Ele water pump here in Arizona you have problems. I,m buliding my 305 too be a fun street car with a little more power then stock,and good on gas. I know it not gonna be like my old 350 motor that I put a lot of money into But I.m gonna be having fun with this motor. to the first poster Id like to see time slips from the track and a dyno sheet.

Slayerx666

That one article says if it was an l03 the numbers would be much lower.

Not for nothing I have the cam they're using in that motor, the 292

83TransAmDayton

How do you like that cam ? I have the comp cams 268 yet too put it in motor put doing that this weekend

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Man, this topic has got people fired up!

Slayerx666

Well the car isn't done yet, but it sounds awesome and seems to run strong. Plus the idle is awesome.

86Z

iTrader: (4)

i support 305's, mine is built up with a supercharger at 14#'s of boost, i make well over 400 at the motor, i dyno'd 380 to the wheels and 420 ft/lbs of torque...

your not making a n/a 400 hp 305... with the stock bore...

when the 305 is done, it's LSx time ...

thebuffalo

No catalog, Off the top of my head. Do you get everything out of a catalog cause you've said that like 5 times in like 5 different posts.

And I am EXPLICITLY claiming right now that 400RWHP is possible with a 305 small block chevy.
I'm pretty sure if I had a GM technician tell you this right now(he probably got his info from a catalog too), show you 200 dyno sheets, get it engraved in the side of a boulder, and machine it into the 305 itself; you still would say "NO 305 SLOW LIKE SNAIL". I mean seriously, if you don't think its possible than you should probably pick up a book or something, maybe watch a documentary. I just saw 3 links of 350+ hp 305's. I posted 2, someone else posted a couple 2 or 3 pages ago. If your still hatin' then you're obviously just a player hater. And noone likes a player hater. It's not like I'm saying a 305 is better than a 350, or its faster than your motor. I am simply stating a FACT that 400hp is obtainable. And honda techs should get a job at ferrari BECAUSE 240 Hp is obviously impossible for 122 cubic inches too right? And half the members here with N/A 350's pushing 500+ their motors should be in ferrari's too, cause anything over 1.5hp per cubic inch is impossible.. you guys are really funny. I'm 19 and I have more common sense and mechanical logic than most of you just running your mouth.
REALLY!??!?! OHHH NO WUNDER.... Obviously it wouldn't be stock bore, or stock heads ( said this before like 4 times ) and I've said this before too, READ B4 SPEAK <-- i wouldn't have to repeat myself so much if people did this.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

This is getting ridiculous. Listen to me, a 302 Chevy can be taken to well over 500 horsepower, and its already been done. However, a 302 Chevy uses a 4" bore, so it can run much larger intake valves without shrouding the valve. Air and fuel gives us our horsepower, that fact never changes, but like I said above... it was never a question of the 305's cubic inch displacement being the problem, rather, it is how that displacement was obtained by GM. The 305 has a very small bore, smaller than the 3.8 V6 Buick engine found in the Grand National for crying out loud (the 305's bore is only 3.736"). The 305 was a "bored out" 262 engine (4.3) that had a 3.67"/3.10" bore and stroke. The engine, although can in fact perform, was never really designed to because of the very thin casting...

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

See but the difference between the above statement, and what you've been saying throughout this entire thread is that you'd actually have proof with the above. Your still telling us all that it's possible, but you don't even have a pot to **** in. You and this thread are starting to turn into a pretty big and funny joke.

Slayerx666

No matter what, buffalo isn't gunna change his mind lol. Even if street lethal spells it out, like he just did.

Slayerx666

That. Is funny. More like your 19 and don't understand that just because a honda motor [or any other small high hp motor] makes x amount of hp per cubic inch, doesn't mean a 305 can with an entirely different layout. In your amateur brain you think, small motor can make big power, so fhe 305 motor must be able to make even more. The people in here with more years of experience then years that you've been alive are giving you facts and you're just not accepting it.

pound

iTrader: (7)

thebuffalo

I am stating something that has been done before (305 making 400hp). I showed 3 articles of it, other people have showed a few also. The only reason you're(and the 5 others) coming at me about it is because I'm telling you that you are wrong and noone likes to hear that.

If you don't think that it is possible to make 400hp out of a 305, you are WRONG ( I didn't say it would be worth it )
Its that simple.

I only brought up the honda motor because someone said if you make over 1.5 hp per cubic inch you should be a "ferrari mechanic building f1 motors"
Noone has once stated a fact of why the 305 cant make 400hp, they have only said that the stock bore limits the head choices and that the displacement is not the problem. And I provided a solution, bore the motor and get ported heads or new high flow heads.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

That is not what you said. In another post you said you could get a 305-TBI to make 400-RWHP (rear wheel horsepower), Click Here. Nobody is saying that you can't get 400-FWHP out of a 305 by running a tremendous amount of static compression and race gas, but your claiming 400 rear wheel horsepower naturally aspirated, even using a TBI system no less, and I would pay good money to see that with either TPI, TBI or even carbed. Put a naturally aspirated 305 together and prove the "six" of us wrong, I would love for you to reach 400-RWHP out of a naturally aspirated small bore 305, and that is not sarcasm...

thebuffalo

I wouldn't do it because it would be a waste of money. But it is still possible.
And I said I can get 400 out of the crank, and 400RWhp is possible. ("I still say you can get 400+ rwhp out of a 305" click your link for reference.)
And you can even see where I said mine only had 250.

Thanks for proving my point. NOONE READS, they'd rather just start going on about the first thing they can think of that they can say otherwise.

Apeiron

But those aren't solutions. Boring the motor doesn't significantly change the bore. You can typically add .060" of diameter at most, which is only about a 1.6% increase. The increase in clearance around the valve margin is less than half that as well. Not enough to run larger valves, which is the issue. "High-flow" ported heads still can't flow past a shrouded valve. If you really wanted to address the issue, you could use a 4-valve head.

400 HP 305s are possible. They're not cost-effective or practical.

thebuffalo

Thank you, I did mention they are not worth it and I don't suggest trying it unless you're made of money. 4 valve heads are pretty common too, I got a pair of aluminum heads from the junk yard that were 4 valves per cylinder(im assuming thats what you mean by 4 valve head).

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Excuse me? I provided a link that was posted by you, in which you wrote that "you" (in general) could get 400 REAR wheel horsepower out of a 305, a 305 using TBI no less, so that is something that you apparently believe. This is something that you said, and that we all read. Tell me buffalo, do you know how much air and fuel is needed to make 400-RWHP out of 305 cubic inches of displacement? Do you know the formula used? I do. Care to ask your sources and get back to me to see if they know...?

Apeiron

Not if you expect them to fit a SBC.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Again, 400-FWHP is not 400-RWHP, there is approximately a 75 horsepower difference, and we are discussing RWHP are we not? Nobody is saying that 400-FWHP is not possible with the right amount of static compression and corresponding fuel with a 305. As for 4-valve heads, there are none that clear the 305's 3.736" bore, which is what the "six" of us are saying here, the bore is the limitation. I can show you a 274 cubic inch Buick V6 that makes over 500 horsepower naturally aspirated on pump gas, so what you are trying to say here completely defeats the purpose...;



"Good things come in small packages. Compared to a V8, a Buick V6 is rather diminutive, except when it comes to power. Jim Ruggles' Grand National Sportsman engines produce 530+ horsepower from 274 cubic inches. Even without a hand-held calculator, that figures out to 1.94 horsepower per cubic inch, an impressive figure for any engine on one four-barrel carburetor and gasoline"...

http://www.teambuick.com/reference/l.../v6_stage2.php

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

You have a pair of 4 valve aluminum heads for a small block chevy, that you found in a junkyard? Is it a junk yard full of unattainable racing parts, located directly outside of area 51? You gotta bring me to this place, I bet they have some Arao heads lying around that will really wake my non-performing 350 up.

thebuffalo

I did not say that "I" can do it, I said "you" can do it and it's possible. Don't know the formula, and my "sources" are myself and whatever I google.

As for the 4 valve heads, I have 4 valve per cylinder heads that fit on my 350 SBC perfectly, not sure if they have them for 305's but I could see it reasonable that there are some out there. Even so, taking the stock swirl port heads and porting out the intake/exhaust could make those decent heads, far from the best but still reasonable for producing around 400hp. I didn't even get into mentioning the crank options because I know nothing about them but this could even add a good couple hp. All I'm trying to say is that the 305 can be made into a decent street machine pushing around 400-450 out of the crank.
Got them at LKQ in St.Pete, Florida out of a thirdgen actually. I should mention that they were cracked, I didn't find out until I brought them home.
WOW, Arao heads are VERY expensive.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Agreed. Arao heads (formerly Old Dominion) are the only company that made 32-valve heads for the SBC, and they were, and are, over six thousand dollars. I want to see pictures of these heads that were found in the junkyard...

Apeiron

Too bad you used them, you could have sold them for enough to buy another car. They're that rare.

Doesn't matter how much you port them, you're not going to get that from swirl ports. They're that bad.

Assuming you're not changing the displacement, cranks don't add HP. They only lose less.

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

Like he said, pics, or you're lying. Florida must have the best junk yards, or those heads fell off a NASA rocket, and just happened to land on a third gen lmao.

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

I have never laughed so much on a third gen thread. And the other forums say we're uptight lmao.

thebuffalo

Didn't know that about cranks. And I know the swirl port heads are extremely bad, I just didn't think they were so bad you can't even port them out for decent gains.

As for the cracked 32 valve heads I found at a junkyard, they were cracked so unfortunately as quickly as I got them, I got rid of them. Next time I see a pair I'll be sure to snap a photo and throw them on craigslist. Me and the guy at the junkyard obviously made a mistake not knowing what we had was worth so much.

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

Let me spell it out. Y O U did not F I N D a pair of A R A O heads in a junkyard.
You may have been looking at some Northstar V8 heads, but they don't bolt up to any SBC.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...i/viewall.html

378hp out of a 305 tbi. I dont think they even touched the block itself. Its all top end of the motor.

Apeiron

You could have had the cracks welded and the heads machined, sold them, and still had enough for that second car.

Don't worry about the photo, you'll never see another pair in your lifetime.

thebuffalo

I gave them to a scrapper, I wonder if he was happy. And you don't know that, after looking at Arao's website, I want a pair now.. it will just be far down the road.

Another article of a 305 making good horsepower. Nice find.

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

I read that whole article, it said 330 corrected horsepower at the crank, factoring in 22% driveline loss.
http://image.chevyhiperformance.com/...ission09_z.jpg

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...i/viewall.html

378hp out of a 305 tbi.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Actually i think they meant 378 ft/lbs of torque at the crank, but the hp is still at 330 HP at the crank. I say not bad for a 305.

thebuffalo

Not bad at all for 9.63:1 compression and using a bunch of parts made by TurboCity ( still N/A motor )

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

I agree, it's definitely not bad. But it's not 330 wheel, out of an N/A L03, which is what I was asking buffalo to show us because he can do it lol.

thebuffalo

I already posted an article of a 400hp 305 and someone else posted the link to the 500+ hp circle track 305.. So obviously it can be done, I am not going to show you a damn thing, nor waste my money attempting it.

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

I had to look at your public profile after this one, and this is what I found.

"Interests goin fast n smokin grass" Looks like you're doing a whole lot of the latter friend.

thebuffalo

Lol, more than 50% of the worlds most successful people do the same things that I do, but were not talking about that are we ?

I have posted articles proving my point and other people have posted ones that go beyond my point.

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

Those articles didn't prove anything except that, to get the horsepower your saying can be had, the motor needs to be out of a vehicle, stripped of all accessories, pumped full of race gas, and have a compression ratio that can't be run without said race gas.

big hammer

by 32 valve heads you mean between both heads right?

thebuffalo

But did they produce the horsepower that I said they would?
And what about the circle track 305 pushing 500+? Is that outside of the vehicle?

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

Considering none of them were L03's, no they didn't.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Ahh yes, the ole he said - she said, and the magazine said, so it must be true. Just like Bruce Lee would have kicked that crap out of every MMA fighter in the world because the magazines said so, yet he didn't actually compete "once" in his life. Let's see what the real dyno has to say about a naturally aspirated 305, one that is actually filmed during the session. You know, the kind that youtube is filled with for every other engine out there in the entire world... "except" with the 305. Anyone have any factual vids?

thebuffalo

Probably not going to be a video of this, but the articles I posted did have dyno print-outs which technically is legit proof.


What does that have to do with anything? Theres more 305's than just the l03..

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

Umm your whole agruement is with the L03 as your base.

thebuffalo

I mentioned an L03 because that's what I had. I was stating 305's in general.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Technically legit proof? Please tell me you are joking...

Let me explain something to you, when it comes to horsepower from a fuel injection standpoint, we confirm what the magazines tell us by using proper formula's. Years ago most magazines could talk out of their butt's because the readers were left in the dark, but not anymore. If you had half a brain, you would realize why the above "378-HP out of a TBI" article left out which injectors they were using. Go back and read it, and tell me what size the injectors they used were. Can't find it? Too bad...

Injector Rating x # of injectors x Duty Cycle / BSFC = Maximum Horsepower...

Asusming that the 305 TBI was running 90-lb injectors....

Injector Rating x # of injectors x Duty Cycle / BSFC = Maximum Horsepower...

90 x 2 x .9 / .6 = 270 Horsepower Maximum...

... and that is assuming they were running that big of an injector.

Show me that link to that 500-HP 305, I'd like to dissect it...

Slayerx666

Lol jumping ship because youre wrong....

Slayerx666

I found an lt5 in a junkyard, got it for 50$, scrapped it tho cause its dirty.