Saculia

iTrader: (1)

So this morning I raced a twin turbo supra, the body stile that was characteristic of the late 90s. I don't know what year it was, but it had an aftermarket exhaust.
I was sitting at a traffic light and the supra pulled up next to me. The light turned green and we both started normally, him about a fender ahead of me. All of the sudden he gunned, I did as well. Good old torque cam through and by the and of 1st gear I jumped ahead of him by a fender. I shifted into second and 5K rpm with a tire bark and continued to maintain my half a fender lead through 2nd and 3rd gear. We both shut down at the top of third around 80 mph (wasn't looking at the speedo because I was more concerned about the turbos wining next to my year). The guy racing in the Supra was a nice guy. We smiled, gave each other thumbs up, and he turned into a gas station while I went on my mary way.
So I know that these supras are fast stock and can be made much faster if modified thus, I am not posting this to use as a bragging right. I am posting it because I have a few questions:
How much power do you think my LB9 makes (torque and hp at the crank)? This is assuming that the supra is stock with only an aftermarket exhaust.
I am looking for conservative estimates. Here is what has been done to my car:
LB9 with 13500 on new rebuilt from the oil pan to the valve covers. It is bored 0.020" over and the block has been decked 0.020" as well. It is cammed with comp cams xr258hr12: 0.480" int. and .488" exh. lift with the stock rocker arm ratio 206 int. 212 exh. at 0.05" tapet lift 112* LSA: 22lbs bosch design 3 injectors: 3" magnaflow cat back with walker replacement catalytic converters; underdrive pulleys; MSD blaster coil; k&n air filter, not cold air intake; and full wide band tune. I might be missing something, but if I do it is minor.
The car still has the stock exhaust manifolds. I will eventually replace them with a set of tunned full length hooker competition headers.
The car has the stock 3.42 disc rear end and the stock WC T5. It has the WS6 suspension with 1.5" drop eibach lowering springs and new spring tech shocks and struts.
Also what kind of hp increase do you think the headers will give me. I am planning to have the car fine tunned and dynoed after the headers go in, but for now I am looking for what it is that I can expect from my setup. The car used to run mid 14s in mostly stock condition.
Thanks for reading this long post and any constructive replys would be much appreciated.

IROCKET4U

There is no way that supra was turbo charged (sorry to disappoint you). You probably raced a n/a one or this guy was taking it easy on you. Those supras take down Ferrari's, Lambo's and even Vipers. If youve ever driven in one it will scare the **** out of you--they literally pin you to the back of your seat!

Here are two guys in Supras messing with a Viper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEJEF...eature=related

You cant tell me you could run with this crew in your 305 TPI

mattsv8_03

iTrader: (2)

id say if it was a supra he was proably scared of the car. there are more than a few owners of high end cars that scare them so they dont drive them hard at all. i dont know exact numbers but the supra if im right was 275hp or 375 hp limit so it could be shipped to the us. id say witha boost controler it was more.true a modded supra eats aout anything except my s10. lol but most arent modded when a turbo kit is 15,000. and parts to complete the install are another 10,000.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I disagree. He's running a decently setup LB9 with a manual, which would give any free modded L98 with an automatic a run for it's money, especially only up to 80-mph. The reason why I bring the L98 into the equation, is because here is a free modded L98 running against a stock Supra Twin Turbo. The free modded L98 pulls just as hard on the Supra from the dig, and maintains it's lead up until around that very same mph....

https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/m...arovssupra.wmv

bgcarbs

I would have to agree with street lethal. I think someone has been watching to much fast and the furious. If a stock supra could beat a ferrari then no one would buy vipers or ferraris. They would just buy supras.

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

Agreed, the T/T Supras in stock form are by no means insanely fast. Sure, they are quick.. about as quick as a stock LS1.

Back shortly after I had picked up my '98 Z28, I played around with a Supra of the same body style quite a few times on the highway. We traded winning by a fender back and forth. About a perfect match for each other I'd say.

I had a Magnaflow cat-back, and a lid/K&N filter. He said he was stock, no boost controller, no downpipes, no exhaust, just an exhaust tip, which obviously wouldn't make a difference. I'd say we were both mid 13's... my car wasn't anything special when I first got it.. 100k miles.. couldn't even really walk away from my buddy's '97 Z with a cat-back.

All races were from about 50-60 to about 110-120. There was also an early 2000's Evo (not the new style, the style before that) that we walked away from every time.

IROCKET4U

FYI--people would still buy Ferrari's and Vipers even if they werent the fastest on the road because of other factors such as exclusivity and style.

bgcarbs

[quote=IROCKET4U;4044281]FYI--people would still buy Ferrari's and Vipers even if they werent the fastest on the road because of other factors such as exclusivity and style.[/qu
Ya but also power. They wouldn't be that popular if they only had 100hp. Im not saying that supras are slow by no means. Im just saying its not impossible.

Saculia

iTrader: (1)

The supra was most definitely the twin turbo. It had the high rise spoiler and I could very clearly hear the turbo whistle and the BOV as he was shifting. The front of his car was next to my window. He was most definitely racing, because I could hear his engine screaming. I am quite certain that other than the exhaust, it probably had nothing else. Also, I can't guarantee that if the race went faster than 80, I would have maintained my lead. My car as it is right now runs with a stock LT1 4th gens (at least that's what the guy that tuned it said. He said that it has ***** for a little 305). I also know that I can peg the 140 mph speedo.
But like I said, I am not doing this to brag, I just would like some feed back as to what could I expect at the dyno with a set of hooker competition long tube headers.
Thanks alot for your replys.

z28gsxr

iTrader: (5)

A stock 93+ TT supra has 340 hp at the crank.

Saculia

iTrader: (1)

Take a look at this motor week road test of a 93 supra turbo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8dHoF5J9iA

soultron

iTrader: (2)

Ok, so here's the thing.
Was it this car -

or this car?

That's the big question.
But then it depends what motor, 7mgte, 1jzgte or 2jzgte.
Then there's what mods that have been done.

Seems to me it was a 92 or so with a 7mgte, in which case it may have only been modestly upgraded, maybe 275 or so horses.

Saculia

iTrader: (1)

It was the later body style, the tt supra that is red. I am not on crack, I know what it was that I raced. Not sure on what year exactly, could be a 93, 95 etc.

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

how come i never come across any slow supras?

last one i ran froma roll, it pulled like a freight train in cloud of smoke
and my 3rd gen runs 10's in the 1/4

Saculia

iTrader: (1)

Luck!
I am quite certain that not all tt supras are 9-10 sec cars. The MW video I posted above shows the 93 supra turbo running 14.0 in the quarter. Thus, it is not unreasonable that a camed 5 speed lb9 would run to 80 mph with it.

IROCThe5.7L

They're not all like that. They aren't super fast if they are left stock. But once it starts getting modded...look out! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfttO...eature=related Top end monsters. I've always been a huge fan of Supras.

brodysZ28

Yea supras are fast stock, and CAN be crazy modded, but just cuz its a supra doesnt mean thats its crazy fast just cuz it CAN be.

From wat you say about your engine I would guess around 260hp, but from your race maybe 300-340, but that sounds pretty unreasonable.

Saculia

iTrader: (1)

I agree. I highly doubt my engine makes 300 hp. I was thinking that it might be making about 270 hp and 350 - 360 lbs of torque = 220-230 rwhp and about 300 rwft-lbs torque. Does this sound like a reasonable number to look for at the dyno?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Peak numbers don't really mean anything, it's average power that counts. Even if your not making 300-HP, if your valvetrain is setup properly (symmetry), it will respond accordingly. Stock TT Supra's make decent power, but that power doesn't kick in until later on in the power band. That, plus an inexperienced driver on the Supra's part, would give just about anyone a fighting chance up until 80-mph....

Saculia

iTrader: (1)

I actually paid a good deal of money to a reputable machine shop to build this engine properly and then I took it to a performance shop where I got it tuned. The car accelerates very smoothly. The power band seems to be quite linear from about 1000 - 5000 rpm. There don't seem to be any flat spots in the power curve, but that was different before the car got the wide band tune. As far as valve train symmetry is concerned, I don't know exactly what that entails. I know that precautions were taken so that all clearances were met with respect to the camshaft upgrade along with the installation of the proper valve springs for the lift that was provided by the cam. I know that far more power could have been had for the kind of money I spent if I had dropped in a 350, but my intentions were to keep this a #s matching car. As far as power is concerned, my goal has been to get the car to run high 13s in the quarter. I hope that at the very least with this setup I would be able to be very close to having achieved this goal.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

.... it has to do with valve events, in accordance with cylinder displacement, air flow, etc, in which everything is working in perfect harmony to maximize your particular setup. A good cam selection is based on knowing these very things ahead of time, and this is what allows for average power, and/or power under the curve. Many times you will see a car averaging 300-HP annihilating a car just peaking at 350.

True power is found primarily in the cylinder heads, and light makes might (and old racing addage). Preston Smith ran mid tens with his 3600 pound 305-TPI w/Vortech supercharger, then later ran low nines with a turbo. There is nothing stopping you from achieving your goal....

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

they also have 3600 lbs of weight to move around depending on driver They are heavy cars and i havent seen many come off the line as hard as alot of other cars with similar power. They get the reputation of being dyno queens and dont run the numbers at the track. But some do well enough.

I've seen bolt on supras run 14's and slower with poor drivers... so anything can happen out there

kowboy59

iTrader: (8)

they run 14's bone stock.

the stock turbos are only good to 400 whp at most on a very good tune. so it prlly was stock boost with exhaust mb BOVs so like 13.7s with a decent driver.

IROCKET4U

Here's another example of a Supra turbo this time taking down a Saleen S7 Turbo. Im not saying these Supra's cant be beat but they are a very fast car and can embarass certain exotics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAMQTtf0UX0

Here's another putting a Lambo to shame
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM1sGPwVSrU

Check this one out--Supra vs a Hayabusa sportbike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ5sk2JZgBY&NR=1

Sorry but a 305 TPI cant compete here

Saculia

iTrader: (1)

I think that you have completely missed the purpose and the content of this thread, which has nothing to do with a 305TPI taking down a 1000hp supra.

igotta355z28

iTrader: (1)

Can you prove you beat a TT supra with your 305 car? No.. You have the burden of proof just like in a court case. It will take proof to get most people even us proud camaro owners to believe your 305 car beat a twin turboes 2JZ Supra....so no proof no belief by us....These arnt godly vehicles by any means but the 3rd gen fbodies arnt really known for being all that fast speacially with the 5.0....

Saculia

iTrader: (1)

This was not the intention of this thread. I don't need to prove that I have beat a 2JZ supra. The race took place only up to 80mph. The reason for posting this thread is so that I could find out, from people with knowledge in this are, what it is that I should expect to see when my car goes up on the dyno with the modifications performed in the original post, and with the addition of long tube headers. Not to gain any bragging rights or for that matter convince anybody of anything. Thus, no burden of proof is on me.

soultron

iTrader: (2)

I still think you have about 275 or so...

There's a funny joke about supras.

What's the difference between a 500hp supra and a 1000hp one?

Nothing they both only run 12s.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Not for nothing, but you really need to grow up. You do realize that your comparing a naturally aspirated 305-TPI, to a highly boosted inline 6, right? Why not compare a 13-psi LS1 with a 21-psi Supra running meth injection instead, since your so hung up on Supra performance....;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxneOHzL44s

Or, how about comparing one with this one in which ran a best of 8.73, on a 17" rim, driving to and from the track, without the need for astronomical boost levels like the ones in your video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLXu6BXT9Q8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCb0vLo-N7E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkoUMkD93q4

Or better yet, try comparing any Toyota Supra that you can find, for top speed performance, any one, against this Twin Turbo 3rd Gen. Can you find any to match it's top speed, and do you really believe it will have a problem pulling on any Supra that you can find....?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krEp5grhYlk

I think it's absolutely hysterical when people post Supra's that are running 40+psi, and expect people to honestly take them seriously. Especially people who have the audacity to compare a naturally aspirated and anemic engine like the 305 with a highly boosted one....

Like I said, Preston Smith has already proven the 305 TPI's capabilities....

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...10-second.html

Saculia

iTrader: (1)

I agree, I doubt I am making more than 275hp, but does anyone have a guess about what kind of torque to look for, and also how much of a difference in power a set of tuned long tube headers would make? Thanks for all constructive replies.

bgcarbs

I had an 83 camaro z-28 HO that had a 300hp to the crank stock with absolutely nothing added. I dont know what it would do in the 1/4 mile but i beat a 14.8 sec 1/4 mile 72 nova that my buddy owned. The same guy now owns a 89 fire bird and ran the block numbers and had the same block they put in the vetts that year. With a few modds, cam and a few timing modds he was running n/a 350hp at the crank.

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

last i saw at the track was BL equipped and it went mid 9's with a 6 spd
but ya know, i also saw built 383 sc tpi iroc run mid 12's

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

if you are content with 300rwhp at best, then you're set.

Saculia

iTrader: (1)

Quite frankly I would be content with 230 rwhp and 300 rwft-lbs torque.

89rs454

If you can beat a Supra then so can i.