fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

I'm not even going to bother because you keep trying to tell me what SS means. Well that applies to all SS's by your flawed logic. Face it, the Impy and MC won't be RWD, there is no need for it. The SS badge has nothing to do with fwd/rwd. They're not going to make a few thousand for die hard fans...and they're certainly not going to listen to message board people whining because it's not RWD, especially since those that are whining probably can't afford/won't even buy one

80smetalfan

Firstly, anymore, the SS package means business. You realize the Trailblazer SS has a Corvette LS2 in it, right? You think there was customer demand for THAT? These cars will be RWD by the end of the decade, just watch.

There are still a few dumb SS's (Malibu Maxx SS? WTF?), but in general they're pretty much the GM equivalent of an SRT or STi package these days. It's not a supercharger/decal package anymore.

Secondly, there are a whole lot of cars that aren't really in the same class as a Mustang, but people consider them (and choose them) over a Mustang because people really actually do want go fast, a LOT of them. I know a lot guys that debate between getting an SRT-4 or a Stang GT, or an STi or Stang GT. There is no ponycar class anymore, people just want fast cars, and the smarter companies are giving them that, and doing it cheaply, which is why the SRT-4 sells as well as it does, as well as the Stang. TRAXXION had one of the sickest N/A Irocs (11.6s on a H/C/I L98 with an untouched block) on this entire site and left it for an STi, which should say a lot about how much people care about traditional "classes" anymore. I'm sure he wasn't attracted to the "tuner" crowd.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Well you guys keep whining like school girls that they're not RWD There is a reason, but all you guys keep thinking this is the late 60's which is cool, it just makes you guys look clueless.

stu

Every Acura, Lexus, and Infiniti you see on the streets today are on the streets of Japan as Hondas, Lexus, and Infiniti, they are the SAME car, period.

Anyway, don't bring handling into the FWD/RWD department because that doesn't matter. You can still make a FWD car handle nearly as well as a RWD, think about it. When it comes to turning, there is one, ONE situation where RWD is better, and that is accelerating out of a turn. Under is purposely engineered into FWD cars for safety. If you are hard on the brake going into a turn, then engine matching your speed through the middle, your drive wheels aren't doing anything and it doesn't matter.

The point I'm trying to make is that if Chevy wanted the Impala and Monte Cristo to handle better, they easily could have made it handle far better than the capabilities of 99% of the people who bought them. The MazdaSpeed Protege does .90 on the skid pad from the factory. Be realistic, .90 g's on the skid pad is more than anyone will ever use on the street. Even though the Impy and Monty are too big to really be "tossable" like a Protege, if Mazda can have a factory feeling corner carver, Chevy can as well. The RWD part doesn't matter.

Torque steer? All you need is a limited slip differential.

80smetalfan

Let's see here.

The new Z06 is powered by a 427, which everyone loves. They could have just used a smaller displacement, since this is a smallblock, and made the same power, but I suppose the fact that the motor displaces 427 cubic inches is pure coincidence. No hints of 60s tradition there.

The f-body is returning, the Challenger is returning, the GTO has returned, the Charger has returned, Detriot now offers about 6 different sedans and coupes with 300+ hp V8s, and Dodge is making a Hemi again. For god knows what reason, Chevy and Jeep are cramming high performance V8s into high optioned SUV's that outrun most cars on this website. Nope, no hints of 60s-ness with any of that.

Clueless, indeed.
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The S2000 is RWD for a reason. Honda already had a successful 2 door FWD roadster with the Del Sol. I wonder why they switched, considering they offer almost no RWD cars? I guess, there's just gotta be something to this RWD thing, eh?

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Thank you for proving my point.

80smetalfan

Hmm....and when the F-body returns, that will make a sum total of 1 RWD V8 car GM offers under $30k, if they're cheap about it. What was your point again?

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

My point was there is no need for another RWD car in GM's lineup. They have enough. You just listed 2 of them, plus the C6, PLUS Caddy's RWD cars. Also, what does 30K have to do with it? The Impala SS and MC SS isn't too far from 30K bud. They START at $27K

stu

Thanks to the 300 hp STi.


For the same reason the ZO6 is, it's a PURE bred race car, no two ways about it.


The Del Sol was NOT succesful. It only had a run of three years. You're not even trying.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Also, metalfan. Me bringing up the 60's had NOTHING to do with horsepower, I understand you might have trouble following here. My comment regarding the 60's was in reference to every vehicle being RWD.

80smetalfan

Let's see....of course the C6 and Caddilacs should count, because they're so extremely affordable. GM can certainly bank on getting a lot of sales with them.

And that GTO, being ugly and overpriced has done mighty well too.

2006 Mustang GT - $26,330
300hp, 320 lb-ft, 3488 lbs, 23 mpg
0-60 in 5.1 seconds

2006 Monte SS - $26,320
303 hp, 323 lb ft, 3549 lbs, 28 mpg
0-60 in 5.4 seconds

It's simple enough to understand with that comparison in mind. Nobody in their right mind would pay the extra $5k for a GTO over either of those if the Monte was RWD and offered with a T-56. And then GM would have a good competitor for the Mustang. They're already priced and perform in each other's "class".

Olds is dead, as is the Regal. Nobody has said anything about either of those. We just want a GM V8 sports car that's affordable. It's only smart business for them anyways.

stu

I forgot all about this. Here is my buddy road racing. The car in front of him is a C5 ZO6. Look how it's killing him with it's RWD!!!!!

http://www.apexracingmedia.net/video...768%20kbps.wmv


Camera car is a 1999 Acura Integra LS (the non-vtec one)

80smetalfan

They were highly acclaimed and they sold decently as well. What a failure.

stu

You know what I see here? I see a front wheel drive car that is heavier than the RWD car with near the same times.
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No they didn't. They tanked because no one liked them. If they were so highly acclaimed, all the little tuners would have them, but they don't. The Del Sol is the heaviest Civic ever made, probably because of the roof. Almost no one mods them.

80smetalfan

Yeah, it's so obvious that cars like the Impala SS and Chrysler 300M are marketed towards the type of individual who would buy an STi. Really, I mean, the WRX WAS a popular family sedan before the STi too, wasn't it?

stu

The STi has 300 hp and is right around $32,000 brand new. Are the Monte's and Impala's less?

80smetalfan

Hey man, all I'm saying is that the RWD is considered more oriented than FWD. I admitted these cars wouldn't benefit terribly from RWD outside of straightline accel. Which is why I pointed out that Honda (as well as several other FWD predominant Jap brands) make their sports cars RWD, when they know this as much as anyone. It's just considered more performance-oriented.
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Yep. The Impy SS is a whole 5k less. The Monte is 6k less.

Nobody buys a WRX to cram their family into. The Impala is a family sedan. I don't think GM execs were even looking at the STi when they opted to go with a V8 SS. They were looking at Chrysler, who was looking at nobody because they are creative about things like this. And I'm quite confident that the WRX takes about 0% of the 300M's market.

80smetalfan

This is just great.

A 94 3 door hatch weighs 2108 lbs. A 94 Del Sol weighs 2301. And it's all in the roof!

The 2006 Civic weighs 2700 lbs, by the way.

Someone should just lock this thread already.

iroc22

Good plan, this thread has gotten way too far off the original intention.