V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

Hey guys, reading a thread on a different board has made me wonder how my '89 GTA (L98, 700R4, 3.27) will stack up against one of the new-style Mustang GTs (once all of my mods are done)...

What it has now:
CAI w/ K&N;
SLP 1.75" Jet-Hot coated headers & Y-pipe;
High-flow (3" in/out) cat;
True 3" Dynomax muffler;
Airfoil;
A/C delete;
24# injectors;
MSD coil;
Firehawk SZ-50 tires

Sitting here, waiting for me to install them:
StealthRam intake;
AFR 195 heads;
MSD 6AL ignition box;
Hotchkis SFCs;
(& maybe 1 or 2 other things that I can't remember right now...)

Should be here by mid-summer or so:
Nice healthy cam to match heads/intake above;
PCMforLess tune;
LS1 rear w/ 3.42 gearset; (maybe)
Six-speed manual tranny (I hope!)


In all honesty, I won't be too upset whether I win or lose to one of them, as I think they're one of the coolest new cars I've seen in a long, long time -
(except for that "split-pea soup" green - WHAT was Ford thinking??)

87TPI350KID

with heads and stealthram youve got hime, with a lumpy cam, hes gonna get hammered.

Jgolden314

I think you got one beat, if its stock.

89IrocZ350TPI

Ive seen them run in the mid-high 13's bone stock. Im sure you can take one in the 1/4.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

Actually in the quarter is where he's going to get beaten - if the stang can drive it'll see low-mid 13s. Run one from a roll, they only trap 100 or so. With that HSR and those heads you'll take him. Their highway performance is close to a bone stock LT1 car.

Their major advantage comes in their ability to 60ft factory stock.

Mike 92LX

iTrader: (6)

I have trapped 103-105 MPH in 5 different ones.
I say with all of your planned mods you will beat one if they are stock.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

105 is a fast trap for 300 fwhp in a 3700 lbs car. I'd have to see it to believe it.

Fastest I've seen locally trapped 101.9.

89IrocZ350TPI

Here is what m/t rated the 05 GT


Ford Mustang GT
Base price $24,995
Vehicle layout Front engine, RWD, 2-door, 4-pass coupe
Engine type V-8, SOHC, 3 valves/cyl
Displacement, ci/cc 280.8/4606
Max SAE net horsepower 300 @ 5750 rpm
Max SAE net torque, lb-ft 320 @ 4500 rpm
Transmission 5-speed manual
Curb weight, lb 3520
0-60 mph, sec 5.1
1/4 mile, sec @ mph 13.5 @ 103.6
Braking, 60-0 mph, ft 125
600-foot slalom, mph 65.4
Cool factor 10
(1-10, 10 best)

25thmustang

The 05-06s have decent power, and could easily see 13s without worry. 105 mph would be on the higher side, but 103 seems about average and 105 is definately not out of the question. Like said before with your mods you should take one!

89IrocZ350TPI

I read in "Mustangs and Fast Fords" that an 05 put down 275rwh bone stock! geeeze not bad at all.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

They're in LS1 territory, and there's free mods that can really get them singing. They've basically got a 3rd gen rear end suspension setup, I find that just awesome. HSR and good SBC heads you should be all over one because they're not really edging you out on traction for obvious reasons. They also look nearly as cool as a 3rd gen.... nearly

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

They are no where near "LS1" territory. In the quarter they're close to the slower LS1 times, but on the highway they get owned.

89IrocZ350TPI

Ya, stock LS1's with good traction can run in the high 12's. The best ive seen from the newer GTs was 13.4. LS1's are animals

Stevo

iTrader: (45)

Stock you say? What kinda 60' time are these stock ls1s in the 12s putting down? A new mustang is definently is LS1 territory on the 1/4...

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

The mustangs just now make 300hp and still only have a 5 speed. Yawn. Congratulations mustang owners, you're mediocre. A new GT is not the same as an LS1. It is a better match for a well driven M6 LT1 car. 275 at the wheels is a joke for a new V8 performance car. GM 5.3 trucks make that much. Likewise, Dodge only now has its 340hp motor (only after stealing 90% of its design from the Gen III mill, does 5.7 ring a bell?). GM is way above the competition in the powertrain department. It is the other areas that they suck at.

My buds stock '02 SS made 325hp at the wheels with a motor that was designed back in the early 90's. It took Dodge over 8 years to make its fake "hemi" that will still make less than an LS1 on an engine dyno. I have no idea what Ford is doing with the 3 valve motor. For trucks and light duty applications I can see its purpose but for the mustang they need to step it up.

Ford should have put the DOHC 4.6 in all of its new GT's. That motor IMHO is a great mill and a homerun V8. Ford did its homework on that one but fails to use enough of it.

89IrocZ350TPI

I agree that it would be a better match up for a 6 speed LT1. I realize that 275 is not that much when compared to todays standards, but when it is compared to the 99-04 GTs it is alot. Thats what most people will compare the 05 GTs to.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

I agree. I don't want to take anything away from the mustang either. It is popular, looks good, is fairly lightweight, and is in high demand. Ford has always done a great job in that regard. They did make an all our car in the '03/'04 cobras but that too fell to the wayside because of high costs and little demand. It is the same fate that most of GM's V8 cars face.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Ford did alright with the 3 valve. 300hp isnt bad

where they failed is that the car weighs alot more than the old GT's it replaced. i would have loved to see 320hp like the DOHC cobras and mach I had. but it will do.

for the price the car isnt bad.. although for that price i would go 04-05 GTO that u can find laying around pretty new for 25G or less




back to original question... if your adding stealth ram and 195 AFR heads.. and if you get any decent cam to match, your SOLID in the 12's and capable 11's depending on how much cam you add.

that car will kill full bolt on modded 05 GT's and would run well with the new shelby GT500 thats coming out.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

With all the mods listed you should have no problem. I have been killing them at the track and my mods are similiar to what yours will be.

87TPI350KID

Must have been tailwind

They trap faster than any tpi ever will lol Running low 13s with 100 mph trap speeds, awkward.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

You know maybe I live in some kind of twilight zone, but I've never seen a stock LS1 break into the 12's, for that matter I've never seen a stock LS1 and that's no lie every one of them I've been around has mods the day after they're bought. I outrun the LT1 cars all the time but haven't seen any around here that are significantly modded or spraying. Back to the new Mustangs, the guys buying these may not be keen to it yet but there are ALOT of free, and cheap mods that can really wake these cars up and put them on an LS1's heels, lets not forget that they're a liter smaller than the LS1. I'm not saying they run even, or are more mod capable than the LS1's I'm saying they're in there range which is mid 13 to low 12 territory. All of the bolt on LT1's I've road in are on the high 13's flat 14's, similar to the TPI cars around here. PS How much do these new stangs weigh vs. a 4th gen LS1 car?

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

* While hunting the wild streets of Indiana, our guide suddenly stops and says "SSSSSSSSSHH be very quiet guys there's LS1's about, don't wanna ryle one of those up they're animals" *

Sorry dude had to do it


I would say with the right cam, tires, and gears you shouldn't have to be afraid of the new Mustangs or LS1's. I would recommend getting the prom tuning equipment and tuning yourself, and investing in a nitrous insurance policy good luck with the car.

89IrocZ350TPI

http://www.stangbangers.com/01_Bullitt_Article2.htm


Here is a stock LS1 breaking high 12's.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

10 bucks that's an LS6, those came in the SS's and WS6's after 99 or 2000 and judging by the RWHP it's an LS6. Really neat article though.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

One million bucks its not

No factory f-body came with the LS6. The '01 and '02 cars had the LS6 intake and some '02 cars had the LS6 block but all were LS1's and all were around 360+hp. A full bolt on LS1 car will make around 350 at the wheels. My buds stock '02 SS put down 325 at the wheels bone stock. That is right near 400 at the crank.

GM high tech performance also got their stock '01 LS1 car to run a best of 12.9.

89IrocZ350TPI

I'll second that.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

Learn something new every day, the most modded local LS1 I know of did 358 at the wheels and 505 on a 150 shot, it's a 98 car with ported 5.3 truck heads, a nitrous hp cam, and alot of bolt on goodies. I've seen an 01 SS with a 6 speed and no mufflers pull a 13.3, and an 01 Firehawk with an auto completely stock do a 13.1 but that's the closest I've seen to breaking into the 12's without alot of modding. All of this is at the same track so that probably has alot to do with it.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

stock LS1's breaking high 12's is rare.... on street tires

slicks or radials and they will do high 12's pretty consistantly.

air intake and exhaust will do 30rwhp and definately do mid high 12's on good tires

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

It happens on street tires, much more consistantly on DRs though. LS1s have more than enough trap. Only takes about 104 to break 12s.
----------
You can't expect me to let this one go.

high 13s, low 14s are times for a bone stock LT1. A cai, headers, catback and some tires will put them at the 12.9/13.0 mark. Add some mail order tuning and it's 12s for sure.

A full bolt-on LT1 on tires will run 12.3-12.5 if they can hook and drive. The fastest bolt-on LT1 is in the high 11s.

Sidewayz28

i believe people under-rate the LT1..their a decent motor and i dont think their comparable to the TPI...and i believe ls1 fbodies are in a different league then the new GTs...just my opinion

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

I didn't expect it to bother you Urban, perhaps thats why I pointed out that none of the LT1's around here are significantly modded; maybe you should just let it go. This post has gone completely off topic as most of the posts in the theoretical and Street Racing forum do so let's run with it, what's with the 4th gen dash on the 3rd gen.org banner??

Sidewayz28

their cooler

89IrocZ350TPI

The 90-92 L98 cars run in the low 14 range. The LT1 cars in the high 13's low 14's. I think that is comparable.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

The two motors aren't comparable at all, except maybe in the 1/8 mile. Look at the trap speeds in the quarter. I typically see L98s trapping about 93-95. An LT1 will trap 100-101. That isn't just a walk, that's a RUN.

Go grab your L98, and come run my basically stock LT1. I'll change your mind

89IrocZ350TPI

Ive ran aganist Lt1's before. The last one I ran aganist ran 14.0 at 100. So I am guessing it was stock. Whatever it really doesnt matter.

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

Agreed, thanks 89IrocZ350TPI.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

"Sitting here, waiting for me to install them:
StealthRam intake;
AFR 195 heads;
MSD 6AL ignition box;
Hotchkis SFCs;
(& maybe 1 or 2 other things that I can't remember right now...)"

That combination with a good cam will make a motor superior to an LT1, get into DIY prom tuning V8Rumble and you should be running with LS1 cars. Let's not forget there's always someone somewhere faster but this combination of parts is about the best you can build on a fuel injected street small block without going to the LS style engines. You will never know exactly how it's going to go together until it's actually built but I can tell you now this is a good combination and your car will be no slouch. As stated before I would put it against alot of cars without fear including the new Mustangs and there's always nitrous for the guy you know can beat you. Good luck with the build.
----------
Before it even starts I realize LT1's have good factory aluminum heads and reverse flow cooling so by superior I mean superior to most bolt on mod LT1's power wise, so don't take that as a claim to design superiority, I have nothing against LT1's just stating my opinion on this one.

89TPI350

did anybody see the horsepower tv when they put that new mustang on the dyno and it did only 255hp and 300 lb/ft. The best ive even heard them run bone stock is a 13.8 and that was on car and driver. Why are some new mustangs so much faster?

25thmustang

Because there are variables that they dont tell you. Look at those C&D and Motortrends and look for LS1s. I have seen them go 13.8s in them as well! For me I dont base my times off what MT or CD run, but I spend a lot of time at the race track, and at different tracks. I see the difference between good and bad tracks, good and bad drivers, and all the other variables. I have seen cars run 14.5s, then at a different track with a different driver, the same basic car went mid 13s!

I personally consider the fastest time a car can run as the cars potential, not an average. It might sound arrogent, but I have confidence that at Englishtown on a cool night I could run withint a tenth or two of the fastest time oneof those cars can put up! I guess I will test this with my brothers 06 GT this summer!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

right on, mag tests suck. usually never drive right

some new stangs have done mid 13's. they are capable of cuttin some good 60 foots on stock rubber with good drivers, so i hear. the suspension is pretty good for that

89IrocZ350TPI

Funny how their dyno said 255, and the one in the Mustang mag said 275.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i have been seeing 260's and low low 270s as stock hp for those things... not all dynos read the same.. depends on the air in the area too. hot summer dyno days might make less hp cuz ambient temps will be high

89IrocZ350TPI

double post

89IrocZ350TPI

Ya, my car has made between 245 and 255wrh depending on conditions.

TBI92Camaro

Well, you've got him with bolt ons and good driving.

New S197's are high 13's cars no problem. I think they are ugly and its pathetic Ford is just NOW doing 300HP.....

IMO, they messed up. I LOVE the Edge Mustangs. Edge, SN95 and Aero Foxes are my faves. Edges (especially 02-04 GT's) look mean...add a 03 cobra bumper and its menacing.

The 4valve is an awesome motor no doubt. its fully utilizing the 281 cubes it has. Outstanding work indeed!

The LS1 is by far WAY above anything anyone has out there. Hands down. No questions asked.

The 2 valves, much liek 3 valves, are weak in the shortblock. build the shortblock, slap a SC or turbo on and watch them blast past 500 RWHP with good levels of boost.

89IrocZ350TPI

[QUOTE=TBI92Camaro]Well, you've got him with bolt ons and good driving.
The LS1 is by far WAY above anything anyone has out there. Hands down. No questions asked.QUOTE]


Id say GM has the best engines. The best engine is the LS7 though.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

well the new hemi's are techincally 90% of the LS1's design. so the 6.1 liter hemi's are a nice motor on par with the LS2's.

rocluvr0013

[QUOTE=89IrocZ350TPI] By far...

TBI92Camaro

ls7 is awesome.

I have to however give BIG props to the Terminator 4.6L motors. Forged internals, blown 281 cubes, DOHC, and a motor thats capable of 650+ RWHP EASY with a 2.4L KB......i know of a guy or 2 locally who has odne so...with a ****ty modular depot tune.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Isn't it funny how the only way to compete was to do a little R & D. Ripp off & Duplicate. It only took them 8 years to match the LS1 and when they did they had to make a near carbon copy of it. Chrysler sucks. Their marketing is so good that millions of idiots around the world think that it is a real hemi. 99% of then find comfort in that four letter word yet most of them have no idea what it means or that their pride and joy water cooler discussed motor is a fake. On an engine dyno a '97 LS1 will still make more power and eat less gas. Does 5.7L ring a bell? Congrats Chrysler... you are mediocre.


[/end rant]