link85x

iTrader: (1)

Just curious to see who would of came out on top. Won't be able to do the race now, since the car's out of comission, but he did back down from a challenge when my buddy tried to get him to come out and play.
My mods:
Edelbrock TES
American Thunder Catback with gutted cat
Gutted airbox
4th gen rear w/4.11's
His mods:
BOV
Strut Tower Brace

Thats all he said was done to the car, his moms just bought for him for $9000 and he know's nothing of cars, so more could have been done to it. His is a 5-speed, while i gots the 700r4. Hope he's up for the challenge when my car comes out of surgery.

stu

Why would you list mods that don't make the car faster? Well, because that's all he told you. I don't know, how fast is your car?

Inwo

Who knows. It will probably be pretty even though. Similar weight similar HP and most likely very similar times in the 1/4. It's a toss up really. If he has an MBC instead of a different BOV then you'll probably be left pretty quickly depending on whether he can drive/shift/launch. If he's essentially stock and can't drive/shift/launch then you'll win easily.

link85x

iTrader: (1)

Stu - I'm not sure on how fast it is by times, because i've never been to the track. It a pretty good 305 i say. Can hit 60 pretty quick, thanks to the exhuast and gears. I know i get him from the dig, but from what i'm told those turbos like to be up top, where as the tpi's like to fall apart around 4500rpms, correct?

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

The answer is pretty easy as you both have similar hp.

His car is the GS-T version, the FWD turbo. He doesn't really have traction, and I hear those need a bit ot clutch massaging to get them to launch right.. I see them all the time either bog or spin their asses off at the track. His launch is going to suck.

Your launch however will be awesome unless you blow it. you have a bit of down low TQ and you're RWD.

Once you get up there, 4500RPMs or so, your car will slow down, and his will speed up.

You'll nail the launch, and if you don't race to far I think you'll hold it, but if you get to about 65 mph or if you do a highway roll, he'll get ya.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

If you don't royally screw up you should take him.

BTW 4.11's are WAAAAAAY too steep for that car, especially with the 700.

stu

How can gears be too steep?

87TPI350KID

Our cars only rev to 5k rpm, so the 4.11 will be a monster to about 30 then it will fall flat on its face all the way to its top speed of about 100.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Easy. 4.11's keep the RPM's up....well as you've probably learned by reading these boards the TPI's aren't exactly high RPM breathers.

Think as 4.11's as someone that forces a 10-pack-a-day smoker to run a 25 miles marathon

stu

There used to be a lot of debate about this with the turbo cars.

One side said:

If you have a turbo, you should have longer gears, because longer gears will keep you in the powerband longer. Plus, there will be more load on the motor, and turbos run off of load, so they'll also spool faster.

The other side said:

You dummies, why would you want to spend the same time in one power band with long gears, as two power bands with short gears? The guy who gets through all his gear faster is clearly going faster.

I never took a side. I understand the concept of parts made for certain power ranges being mismatched, but I never really understood how gears could mess that up. I guess I just don't understand why it's a big deal to fly through your powerband, if you can just shift and be in the next one.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

but when your powerband really ends at say 4500 rpm's flying through it only makes you fly through it in the next gear. They're just too high for a TPI motor. On a LS1 it's better...hell there are guys that run 4.56's on the street with their 6-speed cars.

stu

Well, streetability and being fast are two different things I guess.

My last car had 4.10 gears, and it sucked trying to cruise at even 80mph.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

As stated 4.10's take a TPI out of its sweet spot right away. The motor will run outside of its powerband for the entire time that you "race it". Also, a car doesn't accelerate linearly. Therefore, each numerical gear that you go higher the less the acceleration you have no matter how much power you make. The key to acceleration is to match the power range of your motor with a gear that keeps in that range the longest. The reason why you see LT1 and LS1 cars with 4.10's is because their powerbands are nearly twice as wide as any other previous f-body V8. They can hop from gear to gear because the have the motor that keeps making power at high RPM's. They can accelerate more per gear than a motor with a narower power band.

stu

I guess since I made all my power up top, I never would have noticed the difference.

79vette

Imagine how much faster you could have been if you had put that info to good use. BTW, How easy it it for honda guys to play around with their gear ratios? Is there alot of aftermarket choices for that?

stu

Ummm, not really. My gears were factory. I don't think I would have been any faster with different gears. If you want different gears, you are pretty much looking at just mix and matching from different transmissions if you don't want to pay an arm and a leg.

79vette

I was just wondering if they played around with the final drive ratio to address traction issues or getting more rpms though the traps. I can imagine 4.10 being necessary for the stock engines to multiply the scarce torque they had. But putting turbos into the equation usually ups the torque significantly so traction issues may have been a problem.

stu

Haha, you have no idea. I had an open differential, so I would get torque steer so bad that I'd have to fight the car just to keep it in my lane sometimes.

Unless you are talking about doing some serious mods for specific track use, it's either the LS transmission (long gears) or GS-R, Civic Si, Type R (short gears) transmission. The only person that I personally know to mess with gears was my friend who has GSR 1-4, then an LS 5th gear (since he doesn't ever use 5th on the road coarse or autocross). His is all custom, but I don't remember what he did.

79vette

Well, when you do start your next project, do your self a favor and get a RWD car. I dont care what make it is, but you will not have to worry about torque steer no more. I am not sure if AWD cars suffer from torque steer, they might have eliminated that problem through engineering the driveline right.

stu

Next car will be a Miata. I like to be the underdog, it's more fun.

lilbowilson

iTrader: (2)

I race a stock GST when my tpi 305 only had 3 inch exhaust and a cheap performance chip with 2.73 gears. We race 2 times first race I got the jump and beat him by a fender. Second race he got the jump and won by a fender. I also notice he would start to pull away a little after 100mph. Anyway I think you would win with you mods unless you screw up the kick.

79vette

Well those look like they would be fun to soup up, I hope your not too tall cause I'm 6'1 and it really hurt to sit inside those things. My knees were jammed hard against the dash with the seat all the way back. Corky Bell Has a company that makes those things very quick with turbo kits. I think its called Flyin Miata or something like that. Shave a few more 100 lbs off that thing and get it to be 300-400 hp and you will have a giant killer.

Edit: here is a Link:Flyn' Miata

They got a pretty cool cars for sale section. All ready to go mini street demons.

stu

Flyin Miata is only a four hour drive from me, and they have nothing to do with Corky Bell that I know of. I'm 6'2".

79vette

Yea I am wrong about corky bell, He did have a miata tuner shop though. I hope you can fit in it.

Edit: actually Flyin Miada Distributes Corky's Turbo kits for the Miata.

here is Corky's Shop:Bell engineering Group

stu

I've driven one before. I have a taller torso than most men I think.

79vette

I like Corky cause he is a Texas A&M graduate. In fact I am doing Mechanical/Marine Engineering there right now.

rx7speed

the tpi cars not being heavy breathers at higher rpms are just going to wind through the gears too quick.
as I'm sure you already know having a numericly higher gear gives you more torque at the wheels. but with a low reving car like the stock intake tpi car it just ends up in 3rd gear where the torque to the wheels isn't as high as in first gear


while on a higher revving motor having those steeper gears is kinda nice being you can take advantage of them a little longer. as the motor is able to breathe higher up.

but then again you go too numericly lower of a gear your going to stay in each gear longer but your going to overall put a lot less torque to the ground as well.

gotta find the middle ground

rx7speed

lol I get torque steer like effect from my mazda.

hit the gas the car veers to the right let off the gas and she veers to the left.


think the bushings for the steering on the back is a little messed up though.

link85x

iTrader: (1)

I noticed the 4.11's did drop off the top a little bit compared to the orignal 2.73's the car came with. I bent my rear axle arm on the pass. side, so i pick up an entire rear from a friends 94 trans am. He put 4.11's, and the screamed for his car. I wanted to go with some 3.42 or 3.73, but couldn't afford them at the time (i got the entire rear with calipers, rotors, new posi and gears for $100, he bought a moser 12 bolt, and wanted to get rid of it, so i pick it up. I going to be doing an LT1 swap soon, so i guess i can keep the gears. I know when i cruise to like 65, and then go WOT, damn car barely seems like it's moving.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

yeah those 4.11s are way too steep for you.. on the other hand my 4.10s just came in yesterday

Even with the LT1 if you're planning on running an auto I'd suggest stepping down to a 3.73. 4.10s are bad on gas mileage in the 4L60E, but you can run them if you can live with it. Be prepared for MAJOR traction issues Cant imagine what your gas mileage is like in the 700R4.. seeing as how you're probably flooring it on the highway to pass someone

link85x

iTrader: (1)

I'm doing a T-56 along with the LT1. I guess the 4.11's will be fun, but with the 305, they are way too much, but really fun off the line, they throw you in the seat. BUt once i hit like 60 and above, it was no fun, didn't have anymore ooommmppphh!! I believe i would of got him, for the fact he can't drive, he really cocky, thought was hot **** when he got the car. I'll have to admit though, it's was very clean when i first saw it, very clean. But his modest cockiness as to go, some needs to take it away from him.

nick418

i wouldnt go any higher then 3.42 gears on a TPI car

Nitrous Al

When is your car going to be done? I'd love to see it.

goodtimes11

He is going to spin his tires no matter what. if you keep the race short and all he has is what you mentioned then you will win. but if he can drive and has done some work like mbc, 1stgen bov, uicp, intake and has his suspension dialed in you don't have much of a chance. DON"T RACE HIM FROM A ROLL you will lose. the gst are best eclipse from a roll because they are lighter then the gsx and have less drivetrain loss.

Mikels86T/A

I have an 86 TPI 350 car with 342 gears and TCI 2100 and my friend has a 97 gs-t (eclipse) we went to the track and with me spinning half through first gear i pulled 2 and a half cars and stayed! I ran 13.70 he ran a 15.23! my motor is stock pickup 350 with 305 tpi heads/intake and the RV cam! with 3 inch catback!

link85x

iTrader: (1)

Well, i guess from a dig i have him, with his mods vs. mine, which he barely has any mods, just a BOV. Nitrous Al, the car should be done by spring time i hope, but i'll say the summer. Where in a Mass do you live, i'm in dorchester. When would an LT1 run outta of breath?

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

They really don't. The heads can be ported to flow 280cfm and the intake potential is almost unlimited. They have a flat powerband when modded or stock.

Mikels86T/A

actually there guys getting 300+ cfm out LT-1's and I have an LT-1 in my S-10 and it pulls hard all the way to 6900 rpm. so depends on cam and heads to when the LT-1 would run out of air.

stu

A BOV doesn't make a car faster. It shouldn't even be considered a performance mod.

link85x

iTrader: (1)

6900rpm!! Damn, thats some good pulling there. Boy, i can't wait.

goodtimes11

Yes however if the 2nd gen eclipse bov were made of plastic and leaks at 13 psi so if you want to use a mbc and up the boost to 15psi (max turbo eclipse can handle without fuel mods) you need to switch bov. the 1st gen bov is metal and can handle more then 20psi. but your right stu bov on its own is not a performance mod. im just saying that when you buy a new bov for a eclipse it is usually so that you can run a boost controller.

link85x

iTrader: (1)

I don't really know much about imports, but it was that way when he bought the car from the dealership. I thought the BOV had some significance(sp) by itself, but you learn something new everyday.

rx7speed

yes it is man
it makes the car louder when shifting
and we all know that louder means faster right?

DON 88T/A

Who is getting 300+ cfm out of LT1 heads?

Perry93TransAm

LE and AI are getting close to 290 out of stock LT1 castings, move up to LT4s and they get over 300 CFM with them.

Of course the aftermarket heads easily get over 300 cfm when ported.

My 97 T/A with a 383 spins to 7000 rpm with only 270 cfm from my 190cc AFRs.

cas0484

4.10's eh? Let me know the results once you get them swapped out. I have a set of 3.73's in my basement waiting for some extra cash. But for now, I don't have any complaints about the factory 3.23's. I'm sure traction will be a huge issue for you. I have a hard time hooking up from a dig with a good set of street tires and what few bolt-ons I have.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

yes, traction is going to be a huge issue. I have some plans in the works to fix that though

The intake potential of an LT1 is ridiculously high. LE3 heads are routinely ported to 275 with ease. I've seen some reports of 285-290 from some companies, including LE.

lilbowilson

iTrader: (2)

Please don't take any offense to this but you might want to work on your driving skills because I've seen completely stock LT1's run consitant 8.7's in the 1/8. Your 60ft tells it all 60': 2.197 if your doing that with 3.42 gears what do you thinks going to happen with 4.10? You should be able to get a 1.8 or atleast a 1.9 in stock form.

OH shoot I forgot I don't know anything about f-bodies! LOL