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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
Its a question that everyone has an answer for, but its an opinion more than anything. So now we live in an era where anything and everything is available at your fingertips, if you have the dough. 550hp LS engines, 550hp SBC engines, 1000hp BBC engines ready for a chassis and everything in between and they can be had with a warranty! It's hard to even try and build anything these days without some hellacious HP number. Its almost a waste of money not to. Just driving around and the commuter cars are packing 310hp V6's with 6-10 speed transmissions and the 4 cylinders all have turbos - and with just a tune and boost controller you can run 12's with it easily! My wife has a twin turbo SUV with AWD, a 10 speed, and a tune and its WAY faster than my IROC and it even gave my 77 Z28 with a 521hp 396 SBC a run for its money on the street. It's no doubt a solid mid 12 second SUV thanks to all wheel drive and boost.
In my humble opinion, the best a naturally aspirated SBC TPI car can hope for is to be quicker than some older V8 performance cars and the newer V6 commuter cars which are now around 300-350hp. If you go forced induction, you can easily go a lot faster than that and to be honest, I've given that a lot of thought but I am old school and like the all motor purist aspect of performance. Regardless, I still have to ask what do YOU consider to be respectable performance for todays world?
You said it right, SUV's, Mini Vans, Crossovers, pretty much everything nowadays has HP to the engines nowadays. I think with technology improving performance along with gas mileage has made higher HP engines standard now. As you mentioned even 4 cylinder engines get a turbo standard equipment. It has also made more street racers out of grocery getters. You are probably the same and at least once every time I am out one of these vehicles want to race, every time! it kinda is annoying. For me I usually just lite up the tires in a smoke show as that front wheel drive mini van speeds away. Let that front wheel drive traction control family wagon try that!
As far as the modern HP I think 300 hp for your daily and 400 hp for a performance vehicle. This is a far cry from 75hp 4 banger fuel efficient 1980's Chrysler K car to the awesome 1982 Corvette SBC 350 pumping out that tire thumping 180hp.
it's just a different world now that my Z just doesn't fit into in terms of HP comparison, and to be honest I don't want it to.
I am looking to expand my collection and am on the hunt for a C6 Corvrtte. For comparison the 05 base vette comes with a 400hp LS2.
I still have to ask what do YOU consider to be respectable performance for todays world?
What do I think? Here's what I think:
IT DOESN'T EVEN MATTER, anymore. It doesn't even matter.
1. Nothing is respectable anymore. You can brag up "10's"....someone else is running 9's. And so on.
2. No matter what you build, a grocery getter can smoke it, today. Insane performance (9's? -that's pretty insane) is available to all, today. Not just purchase wise but drivability, wise. A child could do it. A robot IS doing it. So....
3. Who even cares, anymore? I don't.....
I DO care, ....w/in context. An NA TPI car that runs 12's...damn respectable. My '92 that's stock has gone 13.5/105. That's yawn, but in context, that's pretty damn good. Buccaneer running 12's with a NA CFI car? Pretty wicked. Ranger running 10's on a stock street tire C6 Z06? Damn respectable. But the respectability only comes from a veteran car-guy who can understand context, b/c none of those cars are beating any hi-po car of today. A number, virtually any number now days is only going to get one-up'd in the next sentence.
IDK...back in my day, if you had a real, 400 hp in a street car (Which I didn't), you were basically the king-Chit anywhere around there. Today? You could have 1000hp and a Tesla's got 1200.
I had a 1991 454SS pickup truck years ago. It was a hot rod even with the boat anchor Gen V BBC.
I now have a 2019 F150 with a 2.6L TT V6 with a 10 speed and it puts out more HP and torque than the 454SS did and gets much better mileage.
Don't forget, not every 69 Camaro came with a big block. Same with the early mustangs. Inline 6 engines were the norm.
The title is "street performance". To me that implies the occasional stoplight Grand Prix or from my old school days of a quick race from 30 MPH. Top speeds curtailed.
So, I'd say with anything respectable, it'll come down to a question of traction. If your high zoot traction controlled OEM 750 HP daily driver is limited in power to the ground due to the electronics, then my radial slick tired 475 HP dinosaur might stand a chance. This is assuming that it too isn't fitted with a drag tire or similar.
You know, a funny thing happened on the way to the drag races. Go back 20 years or so and it used to be that my 12 second street car was given a lot of cred. Then one day the strip around that time, this late model Vette steams off an 11 second pass. Thing is though, he was a 12 second car for the 1st 1/8, and a 10 second car across the stripe. We were impressed nonetheless. They've gotten much faster too as we all know.
Like I say, it used to be my car was quick (in relative terms of the day). Now, not so much.
That is exactly why I don't want to poor money, anymore, in any kind of 3rd gen F-Bodies to turn them into a "street performance". They'll end-up being noisy, full of rattle and frankly outdated in terms of amenities. Everyone will want to give you "a run for its money" Ask me how I know? I have 400hp with a T56 in my resto mod Formula. It does 12.6s 112mph and it's becoming a farce. Keep the F-Bodies for nice sunny day cruise. Keep them stock and just fix them. That's what I do now, besides subframe connectors lol.
I'd say you would have to compare the level of performance, comfort & reliability you can achieve with your F-Body vs the resources needed (time, sweat & money). Then you look at the price of a modern vehicle and see what you get for the same resources. You'd be surprised. I define performance as power, handling, chassis strength & braking, not just HP under the hood and straight line quarter-mile. As far as comfort there is no comparison possible with modern cars.
Here's an idea:
My daily '20 Malibu Premiere (2.0T) with a simple tune, 9speed AT, 245s low profile tires, with Brembo brake conversion from Buick Regal GS... 13.8s, 102mph. Handles great, has lots of low-end power and brakes very quick. I have all the amenities with adaptive cruise control, ventilated seats, heated rear back seats and lots of convenience. I got it used and modified for a sub $25K! Not bad for a family sedan grocery getter. I got myself a set of extra wheels and tires for the race track and I road race the damn thing lol.
Now, is it "street performance"? Not to today's standard! But it's a hell lot of fun for the resources involved... hell yeah!
A step above would be a Cadillac CT5-V
A step further would be a Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing (now that is starting to sound like street performance)
A step even further going into coupe category, the BMW M2 (that is the basic standard in modern street performance IMO)
I believe the best deal one can get would be a modern Camaro SS or Mustang GT.
... and the beauty with all these modern cars... NO NEED for any mods to get them moving fast, braking and cornering hard.
That is exactly why I don't want to poor money, anymore, in any kind of 3rd gen F-Bodies to turn them into a "street performance". They'll end-up being noisy, full of rattle and frankly outdated in terms of amenities. Everyone will want to give you "a run for its money" Ask me how I know? I have 400hp with a T56 in my resto mod Formula. It does 12.6s 112mph and it's becoming a farce. Keep the F-Bodies for nice sunny day cruise. Keep them stock and just fix them.
This is about the same conclusion to which I have come as well. I'm tired of seeing guys come onto this forum wanting to hop up their ThirdGen and "mod" it for more power so they can beat a minivan off the stoplight. Why? At the next light you will just meet a slightly faster car, like maybe a Honda Accord with a 4 cyl. If I want fast I'll buy a Tesla or something equally modern. I'm happier with my old ThirdGen just in stockist form, kept in as good condition as reasonably possible for a daily driver and I just enjoy the thing for exactly what it is: a really cool relic of the 1980s. It gets lots of looks and smiles everywhere I drive too, and I don't need to race anyone for that.
These days I'm much more concerned with dependability over speed or power. The forum is full of guys constantly repairing their cars because they keep monkeying with stuff that should just be left alone. I'm more interested in DRIVING the thing, not constantly WORKING on it. There is some idiot in an active thread right now modifying a pristine low mile TPI for a few more horsepower, but first time he races a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry he is gonna be embarrassed and back to the shop ripping his engine apart again. It won't be long before that really nice car is abandoned behind the house, sinking into the mud to slowly be reclaimed by the earth. But my simple old stock car drives on...
... and the beauty with all these modern cars... NO NEED for any mods to get them moving fast, braking and cornering hard.
Totally true. (Same goes for the stereos in 'em -they're better than good enough)
BUT the down side is that many or most of these cars are boring/no fun when you're not driving them 10/10th's. On the street? Blase'. No good sounds, no good feels, interior is like any other modern appliance.
I agree that there is no point in "building" a "fast car" out of a 3rd gen, Fox, C4, whatever. It's pointless. Hell my buddy has the fastest stock-block GN in the country, car is useless on the street (and illegal) and stock modern cars will beat it down the strip. BUT, I still agree with modding a car, to make it more FUN. A little more sounds, maybe more gear, maybe some cam...what ever gets a car into a sweet spot, for you, there is a legitimate point, IMO.
Totally true. (Same goes for the stereos in 'em -they're better than good enough)
BUT the down side is that many or most of these cars are boring/no fun when you're not driving them 10/10th's. On the street? Blase'. No good sounds, no good feels, interior is like any other modern appliance.
I agree that there is no point in "building" a "fast car" out of a 3rd gen, Fox, C4, whatever. It's pointless. Hell my buddy has the fastest stock-block GN in the country, car is useless on the street (and illegal) and stock modern cars will beat it down the strip. BUT, I still agree with modding a car, to make it more FUN. A little more sounds, maybe more gear, maybe some cam...what ever gets a car into a sweet spot, for you, there is a legitimate point, IMO.
12's in an older car is more fun to drive than 11's in a new one.
If this is really the majorities sentiment towards modifying these cars then I will just shut down my thread and do it with just friends and family. This is the number one reason why I never stayed on TGO and have been through 5 or so screen names. You dont see this on the classic car pages and is why I pray prices on these cars keep going up and up and up. Some people just have no class.
I'm going to lock it down. Its not like many seem interested in it anyway. What a waste of time.
Geezum, bub. No class b/c we shared an opinion? That seems like a bit of an over reaction. What do YOU think is respectable street performance today? Maybe if you share what you're thinking, that'll clarify and get things rolling.
No don't take your ball and go home because that's what little kids do.
I'm very interested in your IROC-Z build thread and have been watching Charlie's YouTube videos on it. It's your low mile IROC-Z, your money, time, and effort. Build it the way you want how you want and see it through to the end then whatever you do please drive the living sh*t out of it.
On forums like this there are all kinds of people with all kinds of different opinions. I don't think his opinion is wrong. It's just his opinion. I don't think he was referring to you as an idiot in meanness. Maybe just in a snide remark kind of way. People are people and we do what we do.
Hell I called a guy that cut a hole in his hatch to swap out a fuel pump in a 1LE 5 speed Z/28 and idiot for doing it. I didn't intend it to be mean but just in a snide remark way. Worse thing is with the age on these cars now odds are good you going to have to swap the tank or have it cleaned out and sealed anyways so you going to have to drop it out the right way in the end. Which is what this guy had to do. Hole cut in the hatch floor of a 1LE car for nothing.
I was typing up a reply to your IROC-Z build thread and became tired and ready for nap time. I saved it in a text file to finish later on after my nap. I can see how you might take it the wrong way now so I might not post it. I didn't call you an idiot or anything. I just don't know if you will like my opinion about things.
Hopefully when I wake up from my nap you won't have had your threads deleted/locked.
Geezum, bub. No class b/c we shared an opinion? That seems like a bit of an over reaction. What do YOU think is respectable street performance today? Maybe if you share what you're thinking, that'll clarify and get things rolling.
I was speaking of the name calling and his opinion. Not your opinion. I’m not in the wrong and I won’t feel otherwise. What am I supposed to do? Let it leak and never drive it so I can just stare at it. Classic cars get stuff like this done all the time.
truth be told, face to face… people behave. On the internet it’s a totally different story. Im not a fan.
No don't take your ball and go home because that's what little kids do.
I'm very interested in your IROC-Z build thread and have been watching Charlie's YouTube videos on it. It's your low mile IROC-Z, your money, time, and effort. Build it the way you want how you want and see it through to the end then whatever you do please drive the living sh*t out of it.
On forums like this there are all kinds of people with all kinds of different opinions. I don't think his opinion is wrong. It's just his opinion. I don't think he was referring to you as an idiot in meanness. Maybe just in a snide remark kind of way. People are people and we do what we do.
Hell I called a guy that cut a hole in his hatch to swap out a fuel pump in a 1LE 5 speed Z/28 and idiot for doing it. I didn't intend it to be mean but just in a snide remark way. Worse thing is with the age on these cars now odds are good you going to have to swap the tank or have it cleaned out and sealed anyways so you going to have to drop it out the right way in the end. Which is what this guy had to do. Hole cut in the hatch floor of a 1LE car for nothing.
I was typing up a reply to your IROC-Z build thread and became tired and ready for nap time. I saved it in a text file to finish later on after my nap. I can see how you might take it the wrong way now so I might not post it. I didn't call you an idiot or anything. I just don't know if you will like my opinion about things.
Hopefully when I wake up from my nap you won't have had your threads deleted/locked.
Im not taking my ball and going home. I’m taking my IROC and my thousands of dollars and countless hours and not sharing it for the community. Why would you contribute something that’s a lot of work, somewhere that isn’t appreciated with someone who doesn’t understand all that work?
Me cutting ties with TGO seems pretty logical to me.
How bout this. I won’t ask why you people tolerate name calling on a supposed “friendly” forum if you don’t ask why I don’t. What’s funny is you guys are still coming after me instead of the guy who was out of line. Yeah I don’t think so. Good luck but I’m not sharing anything here. I’m WAY beyond the days of wasting time arguing on a forum.
and for the record, cutting a hole to gain access to the fuel pump is an idiot move. It’s not hard to take the diff out. Good luck.
I have found it easier to start these conversations with the question, What car would you like to keep up with? That gets the target pretty well defined.
Our cars were not blessed with very strong drivetrain components. 400 Hp is about the practical limit before stuff starts breaking behind the engine. If you're not wanting to upgrade transmission and axle, probably need to keep it under 400 Hp. Performance wise, that will be about on par with a stock LS1 swap.
Somewhere between 400 - 450 RWHP is where you will start beating modern pony cars.
500 RWHP in a 3rd gen is closing in on supercar territory in terms of 1/4 mile trap speeds.
These days I'm much more concerned with dependability over speed or power. The forum is full of guys constantly repairing their cars because they keep monkeying with stuff that should just be left alone. I'm more interested in DRIVING the thing, not constantly WORKING on it. There is some idiot in an active thread right now modifying a pristine low mile TPI for a few more horsepower, but first time he races a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry he is gonna be embarrassed and back to the shop ripping his engine apart again. It won't be long before that really nice car is abandoned behind the house, sinking into the mud to slowly be reclaimed by the earth. But my simple old stock car drives on...
BUT the down side is that many or most of these cars are boring/no fun when you're not driving them 10/10th's. On the street? Blase'. No good sounds, no good feels, interior is like any other modern appliance.
Last week, for a few hours, I drove a '23 Charger Scath Pack Swinger with 305s tires from factory. They call them "Last Call"!!! There was absolutely nothing "boring/no fun about it" lol. The sound was absolutely amazing.
I was speaking of the name calling and his opinion. Not your opinion. I’m not in the wrong and I won’t feel otherwise. What am I supposed to do? Let it leak and never drive it so I can just stare at it. Classic cars get stuff like this done all the time.
truth be told, face to face… people behave. On the internet it’s a totally different story. Im not a fan.
Oh, O.K. I got you. No you'r etotally right to fix the leaks.....and totally right to make it whatever the heck YOU want it to be....FUN!
I don't agree w/Aaron R about keeping 'em STOCK....Mod them to be what YOU want it to be (maybe that's stockity-stock, maybe it's a top fueler when you're done)...What you're doing is appealing to me, I don't think it'll hurt reliability or end up on cinder blocks in anyone's back yard. That's a bit of a stretch that Aaron made, IMO. Hyperbole. Keep doing what you're doing, post updates, car will be a hoot when you're don't...won't matter what it runs, IMO.
Last week, for a few hours, I drove a '23 Charger Scath Pack Swinger with 305s tires from factory. They call them "Last Call"!!! There was absolutely nothing "boring/no fun about it" lol. The sound was absolutely amazing.
Just saying
I'll Bet that the sound was amazing. That is one aspect that Dodge got right. Buuuut....Were you shifting it?
Last week, for a few hours, I drove a '23 Charger Scath Pack Swinger with 305s tires from factory. They call them "Last Call"!!! There was absolutely nothing "boring/no fun about it" lol. The sound was absolutely amazing.
One of my favorite things to do in my 3rd gen is bait one of those Dodge's by letting them keep their nose close to mine up to about 45 mph, and when they're at full throttle thinking they have a chance... I leave stripes down the highway in front of them.
There is absolutely nothing boring/no fun about it.
One of my favorite things to do in my 3rd gen is bait one of those Dodge's by letting them keep their nose close to mine up to about 45 mph, and when they're at full throttle thinking they have a chance... I leave stripes down the highway in front of them.
There is absolutely nothing boring/no fun about it.
Hahahah
I did have adaptive cruise control though!!!
Sure. I've had "new". Drove a C6 off the show room floor. "Boringest fast car ever made", I like to tell people. I tried to love it for 3-1/2 years and it didn't take. Fun on track, but boring/lame...even rather blase' on the street. An automatic wouldn't have helped it.
Whatever your take is on that, you're not beating top performing new cars with any 3rd gen that is streetable, so what, then? Build it to be a fun/riot ride.
With the new ATs out there, I could careless about shifting anymore lol.
True. I'll never install another manual trans in a car again. If I were building a car today, I would be looking hard at one of those Dodge ZF 8-speed transmission swaps.
Old cars suck, that's the truth of the matter. But that also presents endless opportunities for someone to have a hobby tinkering with and improving the car. That's why I keep my old car. I'd be bored without something to tinker on.
Although I have hardly driven the car for 2 years now. As I get older, a rough and rowdy car fits less and less into my lifestyle.
As I get older, a rough and rowdy car fits less and less into my lifestyle.
Ha ha ha....that's funny....and interesting; I thought that'd happen to me....so far it hasn't. That's why I built the Kart. Other sporty cars were too "soft", too quiet, not "enough", for my tastes. Hell, ^that C6^ was too soft, too dull....too lame! I thought for sure that by my age, the "rough and rowdy as you aptly put it, would become an irritant, but IMO that IS the "experience" that sets a really "fun car" apart from a regular/"sporty" car....that there IS, an actual experience.
Last edited by Tom 400 CFI; 04-13-2024 at 05:44 PM.
Old cars suck, that's the truth of the matter. But that also presents endless opportunities for someone to have a hobby tinkering with and improving the car. That's why I keep my old car. I'd be bored without something to tinker on.
Although I have hardly driven the car for 2 years now. As I get older, a rough and rowdy car fits less and less into my lifestyle.
That's exactly why I keep my old cars... to keep tinkering in my early retirement. I am trying to acquire a local Trans Am '87 that is sitting in a barn. It has the LG4 150hp in it with AT. The owner is a classic middle age man that inherited the car from family and now has no means to fix it. He is emotionally attached to it and has a dream of restoring it. Drugs and unemployment would do that!!! Hopefully he'll sell it to me so I can get it back on the road and daily it in summer... pretending I am in the '80s. I've always wanted to fix and old CC quadrarjet!
Ha ha ha....that's funny....and interesting; I thought that'd happen to me....so far it hasn't. That's why I built the Kart. Other sporty cars were too "soft", too quiet, not "enough", for my tastes. Hell, ^that C6^ was too soft, too dull....too lame! I thought for sure that by my age, the "rough and rowdy as you aptly put it, would become an irritant, but IMO that IS the "experience" that sets a really "fun car" apart from a regular/"sporty" car....that there IS, an actual experience.
It's happening to me. The other change is resources. Once you get them... well... you don't want to bother anymore. Just turn the key and go.
Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing... just turn the key and go
People are following and participating in your IROC-Z build thread and enjoying it and so are people in this thread.
I'm interested to see if you, Charlie, and David can reinvent the LTR TPI wheel using the same exact parts that have been available for decades to many smart LTR TPI engine builders and come up with a different result then they have which is a 5.7L LTR TPI engine that makes upper 300 to low 400 HP with strong upper low end and midrange power that peaks about at the 5252 RPM HP and TQ crossover point and flatlines after that to about the upper 5000 rpm range to just kissing 6000 rpm before rolling off. I want to see if somehow you all can achieve a different result with a 5.7L LTR TPI engine the makes peak HP in the upper 5000 rpm range and pulls nicely into the lower 6000 RPM range.
Many people enjoying your build thread and this thread with a few hecklers in the peanut gallery. Are you going to let a couple hecklers in the peanut gallery run you off the stage?
Also plenty of guys on here have built and are building amazing 3rd gen Camaros and Firebirds. Far more amazing then what your IROC-Z build is going to be. C4 ZR1 Vette LT5 engine swapped cars, 91/92 SLP Firehawk tribute car with correct parts with the matching patina to the low mile Formula's patina so it looks as if it has always been that way since new. Many awesome LS/LT swaps, and "Day 2" period correct aftermarket parts built cars kind of like what you are doing.
Cars built so awesome I have no idea how the guy didn't go bankrupt and get divorced and his kids hate him because they must never have seen him for the decade he has been living in his shop.
If you need to sever ties with TGO and take your ball and go home because a couple guys in the peanut gallery hurt your feelings then do what you have to do. You do you. Do what makes you happy. We won't stop you. Probably even a couple guys here that will hold the door open for you so it don't hit you in the azz on the way out.
You will show those hecklers in the peanut gallery. They nor anyone else here will ever know what happens when you build a 5.7L LTR TPI engine using the exact same aftermarket parts that have been available for decades.
Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing... just turn the key and go
Eh. IDK. I have resources too, that didn't change me or where I get my S&G's. The C6, had a CTS-V...got a Cayenne S right now...they're just too "muted", too isolating for me. The V was pretty awesome, but this is way WAY more of an "experience", and way more FUN.
I'll drive it way more than 30 minutes! I'm thinking of driving it to Grand Junction in May for a thing. I'll concede though; I wear ear plugs in it. ldmanw/cane:
Eh. IDK. I have resources too, that didn't change me or where I get my S&G's. The C6, had a CTS-V...got a Cayenne S right now...they're just too "muted", too isolating for me. The V was pretty awesome, but this is way WAY more of an "experience", and way more FUN.
It was quite the emotional response. It's like his ego took a beating or something. His name was not mentioned at all in post#8. Would not be the first time egos are flying around on TGO . Everyone wants to be right.
I got caught up into it sometimes ago. We all do. Now, I'm all good. TGO members, we have our opinions. If I'm called an "idiot", it does not mean it's a fact. It's just a perspective. I'm ok with that. On the other hand, when you ask for general opinions: "What's respectable street performance in 2024?", you will get all kinds of opinions and perspectives you might not like. "Some idiot" was a perspective, not a fact. No name was mentioned.
From my perspective, there are "some idiot" TGO members. Does it mean it's a fact? Not at all.
"So far the only thing making me feel like an idiot is buying a car and putting money into something where the owner base has the maturity level of an angry teenage girl who's mad she can't go out with Johnny."
That's his perspective. Not a fact. I find it's a sad perspective. It defines "the owner base" not in a very nice way.
Anyone has ever heard of a narcissistic rage? IMO, post#10 sounded like that. Fact? No, just perspective
Some idiot here, I think any 30+ year old sports car that can still do what it did from the factory is respectable because it takes talent to keep them on the road at this point.
People are following and participating in your IROC-Z build thread and enjoying it and so are people in this thread.
I'm interested to see if you, Charlie, and David can reinvent the LTR TPI wheel using the same exact parts that have been available for decades to many smart LTR TPI engine builders and come up with a different result then they have which is a 5.7L LTR TPI engine that makes upper 300 to low 400 HP with strong upper low end and midrange power that peaks about at the 5252 RPM HP and TQ crossover point and flatlines after that to about the upper 5000 rpm range to just kissing 6000 rpm before rolling off. I want to see if somehow you all can achieve a different result with a 5.7L LTR TPI engine the makes peak HP in the upper 5000 rpm range and pulls nicely into the lower 6000 RPM range.
Many people enjoying your build thread and this thread with a few hecklers in the peanut gallery. Are you going to let a couple hecklers in the peanut gallery run you off the stage?
Also plenty of guys on here have built and are building amazing 3rd gen Camaros and Firebirds. Far more amazing then what your IROC-Z build is going to be. C4 ZR1 Vette LT5 engine swapped cars, 91/92 SLP Firehawk tribute car with correct parts with the matching patina to the low mile Formula's patina so it looks as if it has always been that way since new. Many awesome LS/LT swaps, and "Day 2" period correct aftermarket parts built cars kind of like what you are doing.
Cars built so awesome I have no idea how the guy didn't go bankrupt and get divorced and his kids hate him because they must never have seen him for the decade he has been living in his shop.
If you need to sever ties with TGO and take your ball and go home because a couple guys in the peanut gallery hurt your feelings then do what you have to do. You do you. Do what makes you happy. We won't stop you. Probably even a couple guys here that will hold the door open for you so it don't hit you in the azz on the way out.
You will show those hecklers in the peanut gallery. They nor anyone else here will ever know what happens when you build a 5.7L LTR TPI engine using the exact same aftermarket parts that have been available for decades.
So I go and mow my lawn, give the dogs a bath... etc. come back read yet more stupid stuff.
You think im trying to build a tpi engine thatll peak later in the rpm range? lmao - come on.
So someone comes and donates their time, money and effort into a project to share with you and they get called an idiot and now a narcissist and they are supposed to just keep sharing? How does that work? Its not ego. Its principal. I have principals that say when someone is doing something that benefits you, it's probably smart not act like an arrogant dumba**. Especially when youre not paying for it and you certainly didnt contribute. I dont care if there is post made here or not. lol What do I care?? You have zero to do with my life. Nothing. This was a courtesy on my dime for you. I dont have to be here. Im also not taking my ball and going home. Im taking YOUR ball and going home. My car is still getting done. I lose nothing. Im also POSITIVE both Charlie and DV know exactly what I mean when I say I dont have to entertain you at my expense so since Im paying for this, dont expect it to be on youtube either. This was a fun project for the thirdgen community and now its just MY fun project. I dont know what planet some of you are living on but thats not how stuff like this works.
The moderator should have a zero tolerance policy for acting like an *******. So now youll just have to find another fool to watch blow his hard earned money to beat minivans, maybe. I have to go, I gotta go find boxes to ship this stuff. For the few of you who actually posted in my thread, yes I will keep you in the loop and we might be able to figure out a way for you to check on the project somehow. I know who you are and how to find you. Thanks.
I was actually looking forward to some cool opinions at the start of this thread. Wow, it got weird. I agree w being motivated by being passed by a mini van. And a 98 civic and all the other cars that are boring and faster than a stock third gen. I have a built Subaru sti. It's fast as hell. I'm psyched that my built 82 will eat it up now. It took a while to get there and isn't as refined but it's fast and fun. The car has a fun factor that is really absent in modern cars. You don't see these cars on the road a lot. You really don't see them flying past modern performance cars. It's fun as hell doing that. That's really what it's all about for me.
Whatever the outcome of this thread or that thread, I'll continue to work on, modify, race and drive my Camaro.
It's quite possible to do all of the above.
Respectable? I think so. King of the hill? Not by a long shot. But then again it never was and I never aspired for it to be.
But the V8 sound, the need to pedal the throttle while going up through the gears, the satisfaction from building something with my bare hands and driving it and enjoying it is what keeps me at it.
Circumstances have kept me out of the hobby for a few years but over the last couple I've gathered parts, assembled them, installed them and once the last few bits are in play, I'll be cruising, at the drag strip and just generally enjoying my ride. Which by the way is approaching 40 years old, is in itself, pretty respectable.
WBut the V8 sound, the need to peddle the throttle while going up through the gears, the satisfaction from building something with my bare hands and driving it and enjoying it is what keeps me at it.
So, I'd say with anything respectable, it'll come down to a question of traction. If your high zoot traction controlled OEM 750 HP daily driver is limited in power to the ground due to the electronics, then my radial slick tired 475 HP dinosaur might stand a chance.
This is spot on. You have about 2 or 3 seconds on the street to do your business and it's over. No matter what you've got, if you can't get it hooked to the ground then it's kind of for naught. A car that is "easy to drive hard" often will beat a more powerful car that is "hard to drive hard"
Sure, there are cars that are soulless. My daily driver is one of them.
You gotta be running 11's to be a mildly fast street car today. Look at where stock Camaro SS, and Mustang's land. They are all trapping 118-125mph. These are just the standard V8 models. But I drove a 2021 Camaro SS 1LE 6spd, and it was a blast. Made all the right noises, insanely competent braking and cornering. The steering had amazing feedback, and the chassis balance is top-notch. I walked away thinking, "I want to own one!"
My daily driver is a 2021 Model S Plaid. 1020hp, 1050lb/ft, and gets the equivalent of over 100MPG. I can drive 18 miles for $1. Fastest car I've ever owned and a grandma could pull mid 9's 1/4 mile in it without a thought. Requires zero skill. Just hammer the gas and let the computers sort it out. Makes everything else feel impossibly slow, to the point that its something is wrong. Super comfy, super quiet. It drives itself for when I'm lazy. And has oodles and oodles of storage for road trips.
Compare that with my previous daily driver, a 2017 Focus RS, which has 350hp, 350lb/ft, runs bottom 13's @ 104. But straight line is not what the RS is about. It's about practically defying limits in the corners and under braking. Practically falls into the corners, so much so I have to warn first time drivers to watch out for the inside curb or they WILL clip a wheels because it dives into corners just that fast.
My GTA is a hoot to drive at speed, but completely uncomfortable in daily grind. It does go fast though, the 100mph+ acceleration is impressive, its got lets. But AFR heads, big cam, make for power, just not great fuel economy. Sometimes I miss when it was just a bolt-on LT1 with T56, low 13's, 34mpg. Torque for days.
To me it doesn't matter. Slow or fast.... whatever. That's not why I have mine and I've had it since 1997. Toyed with it since day 1. Sure there's a lot faster out there but in my opinion they're soulless. Especially the electric ones. The thirdgen takes me back to better times. I wanted one since the day I saw a new one back in high school. I love the noises, the shake of the shifter at a light, the firm ride etc. Jeremy Clarkson summed it up best:
"It’s what non-car people don’t get. They see all cars as just a ton and a half, two tons of wires, glass, metal, and rubber, and that’s all they see. People like you or I know we have an unshakable belief that cars are living entities… You can develop a relationship with a car and that’s what non-car people don’t get… When something has foibles and won’t handle properly, that gives it a particularly human quality because it makes mistakes, and that’s how you can build a relationship with a car that other people won’t get."
The other thing maybe worth mentioning is, there is engine Salespower figures, and then there is engine Horsepower figures after buttoned up in your car. To avoid disappointment, try to get a handle on how the engine will really perform in your car.
This seems to be less of a problem in the LS engine world than the SBC world. I don't know if people use different rating systems or what, but it seems SBC crate engine buyers get shafted quiet often with a whole lot less real horsepower than they thought they were buying. Buyers beware.
04-12-2024, 06:08 PM
BUT, I still agree with modding a car, to make it more FUN. A little more sounds, maybe more gear, maybe some cam...what ever gets a car into a sweet spot, for you, there is a legitimate point, IMO. 
ldmanw/cane: 
. Everyone wants to be right.
