taguy16

Since I have to get a different starter now that I'm switching from an auto to a T5 behind my car's 350 I was wondering if the smaller '95 and newer Camaro gear reduction starters will fit the 153 tooth flywheel and stock 3rd gen bellhousing my car now has, since the opening in the bellhousing/flywheel cover for the starter snout is smaller than for auto trans. cars. I put one of these starters in my 2nd gen Firebird and it works so much better than the stock one and is a lot lighter and easier to install, so I can't see the sense in getting a heavy slow cranking original style one if I don't have to. If so, which year starter is the best one to use?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Yes they fit. Up until the LS1.

People say 96 Vette is the application to ask for. Not sure why.

aliceempire

iTrader: (14)

Corvettes use more compact style. Any of the 93 and up starters are light years ahead of the previous units. I personally use a used 95 Roadmaster and it works perfectly. I think vortec truck work well too. I don't think there's anything bad about any of them.

WildCard600

I used a 1996 corvette starter. Works good.

taguy16

Thanks for all the info.

I'm not too concerned about the wiring for the starter because I'll probably end up rewiring this car since a previous owner went to town cutting wires on its engine wiring harness.

I'm at the point now where I'm going to just go with a carburetor so I can finally get the car running rather than trying to figure out the fuel injection like I thought I would do originally. Right now it's more important to me to have a reliable stickshift Camaro with good brakes and proper gears than a fancy high-tech car with all the bells and whistles.

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

For what it's worth the JEGS brand "hitachi style" mini starter also fits, that's what i put on mine when i did the T-5 swap.

taguy16

The '95 Roadmaster starter was the same one used on the '95-97 F-bodies. That's the one I swapped into my '78 Firebird. I think that's the one I'm going to use in my '89 Camaro. I do believe these might need a starter relay to work their best: I used a relay on my '78 and it seems to help the starter work well. Don't ask me why GM didn't get into starter relays (back then at least) since it's a lot smarter way to wire a starter circuit. Chrysler was light years ahead of everyone else in this regard.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

GM didn't do it that way because it wasn't needed in the FAR MORE SENSIBLE GM setup. Instead, the relay is part of the solenoid.

Frod needed one because their old starter had no solenoid, therefore would run 100% of the time if hard batt was hooked up to it. It used a big "shoe" thing that was on a pivot such that when the starter was not energized, there was a set of contacts that shorted out the armature; so when it was hit w 12V, the motor wouldn't turn, but instead would become a giant electromagnet. This attracted the "shoe", which had a little arm that broke the contacts, allowing power to go to the armature. It was a series-wound motor, armature in series with the stator. Kinda Stone Age. Their starter motors did put out AHELLUVALOT MORE ooomph than GM ones ever did though, of course they also weighed ALOT more as well.

Can't recall what Xler did for theirs. Somehow I don't recall them using a relay either but it's been a long time since I futzed with one. One thing they DID do that was inventive at the time though, was to use a high-speed motor and reduction gearing, as opposed to both Frod & GM who used direct-drive, which requires that the motor itself have MUCH higher torque. I don't think there's ANYBODY still using direct-drive starters these days.

The GM system is altogether better in every way than the Frod one. (except for the weaker motor) I can't begin to imagine how having a separate part and all the extra connections and whatnot, could ever possibly be thought of as better, speaking strictly as an electrical engineer. The way our cars are built is FAR better than the other.

Adding a relay to a GM system accomplishes ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, except that when you wire the S terminal to the one that usually has the batt cable so that it spins whenever power is applied, you provide a better source of 12V to the solenoid coil, which is a problem in some old cars as the ign sw, NSS, etc. get old and develop contact resistance. Occasionally that will help a car to work that can't power its solenoid. Seems like a kinda stuuupid end-around for just finding and fixing whatever in the starter circuit is going bad though. Of course a starter relay draws a fair amount of current itself, so it's not a one-stop "fix" in all cases. One SERIOUS disadvantage of adding a relay is that now you have 2 sets of relay contacts and 3 eye terminals in your 2 batt cables, which also are usually longer than the stock one. All that added resistance and parts and connections in the most critical high-power wire in the car is a step backwards.

And yes I'm all ready for the "well I did [fill in the blank about adding a relay] and it solved my [whatever] problem", ALWAYS coming from people who will tell you in their very next breath "I don't know anything about electricity or wiring and it scares me to have to work on it". The usual answer of course is, that whatever ELSE they did in the process of adding the relay, ACTUALLY solved the REAL problem, whatever it was; more often than not, a bad connection at a batt cable end (which got solved because they had to replace the batt cables in the process). People whup out the relay thing especially when worshipping the "heat soak" myth. That one always makes me laugh.

The Roadmonster starter, particularly the LT1 ones, could very likely be the same as the Vette LT1 starter. So yeah, good choice, probably work nearly if not exactly as well as a Vette one. For all I know it might even be cheeeeeper since it wouldn't come with the V word cover charge even if it turns out it's absolutely identical in every way other than the catalog listing. Although, the Vette one looks kinda like a Denso, whereas the other LT1 and Vortec starters I've seen all look more nearly similar to the old direct-drive Delco.