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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
Newly installed mild hydraulic flat tappet cam, lifters, pushrods and rockers (pivots and nuts too).
I’ve tried adjusting the rockers pretty much every possible method, same result. Preload is 1/2 turn after zero lash as per manufacturer (lunati).
I can “push” through the lifter once it’s sat overnight. There are 2 repeat offenders. Once the engine has run for a few moments, the clatter disappears, won’t return until left overnight. Oil filter is rebranded Wix (so I’m told), I have one genuine Wix filter on the shelf.
I have read it’s possible the filter may allow oil to drain back?
Newly installed mild hydraulic flat tappet cam, lifters, pushrods and rockers (pivots and nuts too).
I’ve tried adjusting the rockers pretty much every possible method, same result. Preload is 1/2 turn after zero lash as per manufacturer (lunati).
I can “push” through the lifter once it’s sat overnight. There are 2 repeat offenders. Once the engine has run for a few moments, the clatter disappears, won’t return until left overnight. Oil filter is rebranded Wix (so I’m told), I have one genuine Wix filter on the shelf.
I have read it’s possible the filter may allow oil to drain back?
thoughts?
No.
It sounds like you have a couple of defective valve lifters, something that, unfortunately, seems to be pretty common among flat-tappet components these days.
I spoke with the manufacturer. This is "normal" in there opinion. The thinking being that there is significantly more spring pressure were the cam is up on a lobe - said pressure is held against the lifter and causes it to bleed down.
I spoke with the manufacturer. This is "normal" in there opinion. The thinking being that there is significantly more spring pressure were the cam is up on a lobe - said pressure is held against the lifter and causes it to bleed down.
Well of course they'll say that, they've got you money and could care less about your results. Now, if this WAS "normal" why aren't the other 14 lifters doing it? The cam always stops perfectly pushing on those two lifters only every time the engine is shut down? As well as all the other billions of lifters out there? Basically, they are full of ***** and are giving ya the "Go away kid, ya bother me" blowoff.
Well of course they'll say that, they've got you money and could care less about your results. Now, if this WAS "normal" why aren't the other 14 lifters doing it? The cam always stops perfectly pushing on those two lifters only every time the engine is shut down? As well as all the other billions of lifters out there? Basically, they are full of ***** and are giving ya the "Go away kid, ya bother me" blowoff.
Actually, when I finally reached out to Lunati for warranty (a different rep than the tech line), they couldn’t have been more accommodating. More than willing to replace the lifters under warranty.
However, shipping would be my expense both ways, prohibitive from Canada - as much as a new set of lifters.
I’ve run the gamut on valve adjustment, even gutted an old valve cover and set them with the engine running (best power / vacuum).
Same result, clatter after sitting.
Watching some YouTube, I found this video from Project Farm.
Seafoam? Lunati suggested it for soaking the packing grease out of the lifters (I used thinners), so it can’t hurt, right?
1 oz per litre of engine oil, I added 5 oz (75ish ml).
I ran the engine, let it sit, fired it up and it clattered. Damn. The car sat a week, I fired it up to move it, no clatter. Hmm. Rinse, repeat, no clatter???
I haven’t heard valve clatter at startup in 2 weeks.
I’ll drop out the oil after I put a few more miles on it as per instructions, add just fresh oil and see how it does.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 08-07-2022 at 08:39 AM.
The flat tappet thing is a little overblown really. If you get quality components, and you have to know what you're buying and where they're getting their parts from, then with the proper break-in procedure and quality oil, you're good to go.
There are literally thousands upon thousands of flat tappet lifters and cams sold every year. Failures, when the right parts are picked, aren't what they're made out to be.
As quoted from Mike Jones, owner of Jones Cams.
by CamKing » Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:09 am
There is now only one flat tappet(Mechanical & Hydraulic) lifter manufacturer, manufacturing(Both casting and machining) their lifters in the US.
That's Hylift Johnson.
That is the only flat tappet lifter we sell.
They switched to a new foundry in Cleveland Ohio, last year.
Since then, we have run thousands of their flat tappet lifters, with zero issues.
Their price has doubled, but the quality is unmatched.
I'm not sure where Lunati sources their parts from. Could be Hylift Johnson. At any rate, you've got past the break-in but that doesn't mean you can let your guard down. Seems Rotella is the way to go although there are some variances in that formulation when comparing to engine oil designed for gasoline engines. IIRC, GM's Engine Oil Supplement can be added to conventional oil for similar protection.
Now, back to the clatter, it also seems you have gotten that under control, and hopefully so. All hydraulic lifters will bleed down to a certain extent. And left long enough, more than just a couple. I know that some brands have a greater tendency to do this than others. Pro Power Engines in Victoria, B.C. has documented some of his experiences at Speed-Talk. Some of his issues have resulted in him having to replace flat tappets under a customer's insistence. Changing brands, and the issue went away. Perfectly good lifters were removed with no failure evident. Just noisy.
Keep us posted.
Might want to run a quart of Rislone Engine Treatment, in place of a quart of oil, at the next (soon) oil change. I is MUCH more gentle than a solvent based product(SeaFoam). (there is a place for Seafoam, but not now, I believe)
Well, the hottest part of summer is past us, overnight ambients have dropped a 3-5* degrees C since my last post, and the clatter is back, but minimal, disappears with oil pressure.
I suspect it was abated by the high ambient temperature and the slight thinning of the oil from Seafoam. Yesterday was much warmer than typical, and sure enough when I lit the car up, no clatter.
I’ve been doing some research, somewhere along the line someone suggested the oil filter should be equipped with an anti drain back valve. I run nothing but Wix filters, even my wife’s Kia gets a Wix filter, nothing but the best. But wouldn’t you know, the Wix 51069 (long filter) isn’t listed with an anti drain back valve. The Wix 57099 (short) isn’t listed with an anti drain back valve… but the 57099XP is.
I’m going to swing for the fences with my oil change, Mobil Delvac esp 5W40 (CK-4, SN rated, UOA shows high phosphorus and zinc levels) and Wix 57099XP filter. I don’t know if I’d laugh or cry if the filter alone were enough.
03-14-2022, 10:28 AM
