IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

As most of you know, I put a new engine in the car in February.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...g-install.html
Dart block, 406 cid rungs gapped for nitrous so there is a bit of blowby etc. Engine has been super reliable and has never given me a problem I put just over 3,000 miles on it this year, including 3 days of autocross and 45 quarter-mile passes. On my actual very last pass of the year, (october 25 at Island Dragway) on the return road I noticed my engine oil pressure on my OEm style dashboard gauge was off the chart reading probably 100psi under moderate throttle and it was at around 80 at idle. Turned the car off checked the wiring to the sending unit and checked the PCV valve, breather, dipstick, etc. Some nearby racers said that is odd, but high oil pressure is much better than low oil pressure. It started raining and the track shut down. I let the motor cool while I packed up all my gear in the rain. Decided to keep an eye on it and at least make it out of the track and onto rt 46 in case I needed to call a AAA tow truck. Oil pressure was still reading higher than normal, and I gently drove the car home, listening and being aware of the engine the whole time.

Made it home with no issues. Did some online research and also called the engine builder. He said the same type of things I had heard/read. He Recommended an oil change and I told him that was my plan also since the car was about to be put away for the winter. prior to flushing/draining the oil I also hooked up a mechanical oil pressure gauge to the block to verify that my dashboard oil pressure gauge/needle was not the culprit. Both gauges matched, but no abnormal/high readings were to be had. I was happy about this.









Had a bottle of AMSOIL engine flush on my shelf, so I put than in, ran engine for 10 mins and drained oil right after. It looked normal, but when I put a high powered light up to it i noticed a very trace amount of coppery colored sparkle. Now, I have never studied my oil with a high powered flash light so I had no previous oil samples to compare it to. There was like 5 total very small specks of metal debris on the magnetic drain plug, and the oil filter was very clean (I cut it open like I usually do). This filter and oil has been in the engine for exactly 1,500 miles . there are not 3,000 miles on the engine.
















old oil vs new oil placed onto a clean paper towel. no metal residue







Valvoline VR1 20-50 and Napa ProSelect Filter - engine builders recommendation.





It has been a few weeks and with a few cold starts, hot restarts, and some local moderate driving, the HIGH oil pressure readings have not returned. I am getting my normal 55ish psi at idle and 75-80psi under moderate throttle. Seems great.


However, I decided to try one of those engine oil test kits for $30. I have read that theses tests usually are good, but tend to "scare" people into thinking the worst. Even my engine builder said, they tend to hype up the results. But I tried it anyways. Results are attached.

Not sure what would cause that much sodium, I do not run conventional coolant.. I have only ever used Evans waterless coolant in this system. From what I can find, Evans is just Glycol, no sodium. Also, not sure if the "chromium" levels are anything for concern, or if that is somewhat normal for a hot street/strip motor. Not sure if ANY of the ingredients in the AMSOIL engine flush bottle contributed to the results, but I DID put in my test sample notes that I used the amsoil flush. According to AMSOIL, the ingredients in the flush are just detergents and oils? Obviously no wear metals, .


MY test results:



LAb's instructions on how to understand the test results:













So, any thoughts?
Was my high oil pressure issue just maybe something intermittent with the oil pressure sending unit or the gauge getting wacked around due to the day of drag racing, or do I have something more serious to look into?

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

A sticking oil pump bypass valve would cause high oil pressure. It's on the dirty side of the oil supply so particles can jam up the piston and clear away later.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

interesting! I thought the bypass was in the filter on some filters. I looked for it on my filter, but did not find one. If debris did clog it and then later get cleared, do you think it is likely that the oil pressure would have been high directly after my last 1/4 mile pass and the whole time during the gentle 30 minute drive home?

One reason I did the oil kit test is because a racer at the track said "maybe a bearing spun and blocked an oil hole passage causing the pressure to go high" ? Now I am not an engine builder, but I would think that if a oil passage to a bearing was blocked, not only would I have burned up a bearing/rod during the drive, AND never have made it home, but I would have tons of debris in the oil, AND this wouldn't cause pressure to go high.. pressure would just stay the same because it has several other oil passages to flow to. These Dart blocks have priority main oiling built in.

As for the sodium level, can't think of what that would be. I do run 1/4 mile passes with the air filter off, but aside form that, nothing odd should have access to get inside the engine. A breather is on the pass valve cover and a non-fixed orifice PCV valve is on the drivers side valve cover. the brake booster gets vacuum from the intake, but thats it, its a pretty basic setup.


Hopefully this whole high oil pressure issue was a oddball "fluke" moment, and won't happen again. Last thing I want to do is go all winter thinking that it is fixed and do nothing else to diagnose it, only to have it re-appear in the spring and then i can't drive/race the car.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Well, now I have to say I was thinking LS engine and not SBC. I don't know how the SBC is set up.

89fast5oh

20w50 is a thick oil. Would it cause that high of pressure? I don't know.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

That's an oil flow bypass around the filter. I'm talking about the oil pressure regulator in the oil pump.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

ahhh, gotcha gotcha. ok


this is the flush I used:
https://www.amsoil.com/p/engine-and-...A#pills-home_0
I had bought the flush a few years ago and figured i would throw it in instead of throwing it out or using it in one of my other vehicles. Especially, because in case I had an actual blockage in the oil system causing the abnormal high oil pressure readings I had last month.

I dug through the "spec sheet" that Amsoil has online:
https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/msds/flsh.pdf
and page #2 on section 3 lists the secret ingredients as simply "hydrogenated base oil"
also
page #5 section 9 lists the chemical properties, and then page 9 goes into the aquatic fish/plant information in the oils.
-nothing I saw in the tech paperwork about sodium. oh well.
__________________

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

My oil pressure is high also. I'm running 5w30 signature series and my oil pressure at idle is typically around 45-50 when hot. Crack the throttle and it's off the gauge (more than 60).

Haven't seen any detrimental effects from it. I've cut open several filters and it's completely clean.

Oil analysis is pretty useless most of the time. You can either see metal flakes in the filter or you can't. That's about the size of it. If you can't see anything in the bottom of the can - it's not eating itself. You will get some swirl and some dust on your magnetic drain plug - that is just ring shedding from the seating process. Very normal.

The oil pressure relief valve is in the pump itself. I have the Melling Shark Tooth pump and have had it off and checked the relief valve. Also swapped in the "standard pressure" spring. Didn't make any difference to my pressure.

The bypass valve is not in the pump - it's what the filter screws onto and it's bolted to the block. I have a full flow (non bypass) filter adapter and I run Amsoil filters. The goal here is to run an excellent quality filter and just run full flow filtration. The fact that my oil pressure down stream of my filter is so ridiculously high speaks to the quality of the Amsoil filters and their ability to handle full flow and high pressure.

GD

LiquidBlue

I have a 2009 BMW M6 - V10, S85 engine, known to spin rod bearings. Bearing replacement is a maintenance item. about every 50K miles. The motor is expensive to replace. All of the M5/M6 guys from this era have this oil analysis debate on a regular basis. I'd say the group is pretty well split on if it is good or not. half the time a guy will have it done, get a clean bill of health and then go spin a bearing. the other half, the guy was saved by oil analsys.

These engines rev to 8500 RPM and are running 10W-60. I have no idea what oil pressure is, but one thing that is mentioned for colder weather where guys will store the car for the winter, they will put 10-30 or some light weight in there so they can start it at freezing temps and keep everything ready for spring. at freezing temps, they say the thicker oil is like molasses. down here in Texas we don't have that problem too often. I can wait until it warms back up.

For the cost, I'm happy to throw the money at analysis as a just in case. once, maybe twice a year really as its not a daily driver. I'd like to find a place that can do oil filter analysis as well, because that is where the small particles should be getting trapped. maybe too small to see??? I contacted a place in Houston that does it for aircraft, but they wont get into cars. they not only do a visual inspection, but also spectrum analysis of some sort.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Things (like bearing failures) happen really fast in performance engines. Your 50/50 split tells the story. The guys that catch this in progress are driving like grandma and there's only a sprinkle of owners that get "lucky" with a test at just the right moment.

Most of the BMW's that go on my Dyno are newer/lower mileage or are drift cars with 2JZ swaps. Funny thing is - even the BMW enthusiasts and shops admit they are junk. LoL.

GD

LiquidBlue

interesting, never heard of the 2JZ swap. learn something new every day. That is blasphemy to us S85 guys! Yes, BMW's can be real PIA, but properly maintained, they are sweet machines. I actually have 2, the other is a 2004 545 for my daily driver. its a sleeper that will get up and go. race ya anytime!

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

My Procharger is in the mail (I'm a Procharger dealer now!). So just a few more weeks and I might take ya up on that.....

GD

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

ok coo. much thanks guys! yup, there was no metal particles in the bottom of the filter housing, just about 3-4 very tiny pieces of wet crud. and as you can see from the above photos, the filter element was quite clean. I feel satisfied about all of this. I will keep an eye on the high oil pressure issue come springtime when the car gets back on the road. ever since that one day where it was high after a day of drag racing, its never repeated those high readings. I know it is a single wire that comes off the oil pressure sending unit and goes through the C11 connector to the back of the dashboard, so perhaps during my day of racing the car the wire or a connection got disturbed. The readings that day were incrementally higher. Its not like they were erratic. basically 45 psi became 60 psi at idle... and 55 psi under load became off the display high, probably around 80ish. I'm guessing if the oil pressure wire grounded out, it would read low/none? if it was wiggling around all erratically, I would get erratic readings.


thank you for explaining about the bypass valve. I did not know were it was located or how it functioned. Now I get it! That is wild about how much of a common problem that BMW bearing situation is. WOW. I would NOT be happy to have to deal with that!

I got my oil test kit from AMSOIL and they outsource the testing from that lab that is listed above on my paperwork. It all went very smooth and results came quick! Might do it again next year, its not too expensive, especially compared to the other parts I buy for this car.

I can agree that the thicker oils are like molasses when cold. When i installed this engine back in February of this year, I had been keeping my quarts of 5w-20 oil on the shelf in my garage for weeks so they were pretty cold. As I poured the first quart in, I was astonished how thick ti was when cold. in hindsight, it would have been smart to have kept them in the house for a few days prior. That cold 5-20 was so thick!