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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
I'd agree. They look like the clamp bands from valve seals. Fortunately, they are probably too big to make it through the oil pickup screen - Probably.
I'd suggest popping the springs off and finding the source. Maybe refreshing the seals & springs while you're there. And of course, verifying that the retainers aren't smashing into the seals and destroying them, due to too much lift for the height of the guides. Then if that's an issue, maybe put some LSx springs on there such as PAC1218 with Comp 787 retainers. Although those heads look like they're already cut out for 1.45" springs, in which case you'd need locators as well, and maybe offset keepers.
Had some time and finished pulling the intake.
Defiantly was leaking on the passenger side front coolant passage.
Also found that the gasket was distorted between the ports.
This project has really bloomed into a big job.
Going to replace the valve stem seals.
I haven't done this before.
Need to purchase new seals and a valve spring removal tool.
Suggestions?
The stud-mounted cam/lever spring compressors seem to work well if you're not planning to pull heads - Provided you have clearance for the tool. Braided nylon rope stuffed through the spark plug hole is a reasonably safe way to retain valves without fear of losing air pressure in a compressor type retention scheme.
Had some time and finished pulling the intake.
Defiantly was leaking on the passenger side front coolant passage.
Also found that the gasket was distorted between the ports.
This project has really bloomed into a big job.
Going to replace the valve stem seals.
I haven't done this before.
Need to purchase new seals and a valve spring removal tool.
Suggestions?
Yikes!
I'm going to be following this, to learn a little bit more about SBC diagnostics.
Anxious to see what you find as a cause of the stem seal failures.
Any idea about the intake gasket failures between the ports (happened at install?) and coolant passage?
The gasket failure looks installation-related to me. Maybe not "installer" related, that is to say it wasn't necessarily that somebody screwed up, but definitely related to the installation.
Looks like the top surface of the intake pulled the top of the gasket downwards as the bolts were tightened, which caused the part over the septum between the ports to bulge out. THe most common failure of that sort that I've seen is when that happens across the bottom, and the ports are then exposed to the crankcase.
That (FelPro 120x) is prone to that sort of thing and therefore not my personal favorite type of gasket to use. For a stock-ish sort of application like the photo, I prefer the MS90314. They're just all-around more robust.
Looks like the gasket failed because it never sealed - but why ? Was the gasket to thin in that spot ( Bad Quality out of the box )? Maybe a low spot in the head,... or low spot on the intake ?? I'd be sure to check the Head and Intake before re-mounting the intake again.
The smaller spring removal tool is the one I always use,..... Made by Craftsman, Buy it once.
The simple claw-&-screw type spring compressor won't work on double springs, if that's what you've got. I have one of those also but haven't used it in years.
Worse yet, it tends to scratch the springs, which can lead to failure.
I'd suggest getting the first one.
AC is no big deal. If it's in the way, take it off. But I doubt it will be. A bigger problem will be, interference with the handle, esp near the rear of the motor; not enough room to move it in all the directions it needs to go.
They're fine, assuming that's the size of your guides. Personally I prefer the 503 or 510 (Teflon) but those are OK too. Price is about the same. Measure before buy.
Heads were brand new that are ported and springs changed.Valves are the ones that came with them.
Guides should be the original ZZ3 ones.
Time is hard to come by for me,I would buy multiple sizes to not have to wait to measure.
Last edited by BigBlock73; 02-03-2019 at 05:43 PM.
Stock GM heads won't have .530", or .500", guides.
That might even be the problem you have there... if those are "triple" springs (double w/ damper) then the inner might have rubbed against the clippy part of the seal, if they're the stock .575" or whatever it is.
Measure before buy.
You can take one apart easily enough with almost no tools at all. Bring a piston to TDC; stuff the cyl as full as you can with about 3/8" nylon rope; whap the retainer with about a 5/8" socket and a nice BFH; and watch carefully where the keepers sproing off to. They can launch quite a ways. Once you get some springs off, measure. Chances are, you'll want to replace the keepers anyway, but it never hurts to keep all your parts accounted for during tear-down.
The simple claw-&-screw type spring compressor won't work on double springs, if that's what you've got. I have one of those also but haven't used it in years.
Worse yet, it tends to scratch the springs, which can lead to failure.
Found some time and pulled a couple of springs.
Looks like they squeezed them with pliers and cracked the retaining spring.
Not finding anything when I google the numbers on the seal..
Plenty of room between seal and spring.
Personally I have a deep distrust for anything that comes from Alex's. I have a hard time feeling warm or fuzzy about somebody whose claim to fame is popularizing a hack job. Yes I know, plenty of people have used his stuff and got good results; somehow that doesn't inspire trust in me though. But hey, if they fit, and you can put em on without damaging em, and you feel comfortable with em, it's your choice.
Frankly, I'd still recommend pulling the heads, popping the valves out, and using the cutter listed above, so you can put on the better parts. Might not be a bad idea to check out what springs are on there as well; if they're K-Motion or the like, or show signs of any wear or deterioration, might want to replace those at the same time. There are few things that can cause hard-to-diagnose problems and just general mystery performance issues, than ineffective valve springs.
What is the OD of those springs? What is their installed height? What hardware did the shop use to accomplish it?
Looks like the gasket failed because it never sealed - but why ? Was the gasket to thin in that spot ( Bad Quality out of the box )? Maybe a low spot in the head,... or low spot on the intake ?? I'd be sure to check the Head and Intake before re-mounting the intake again.
The smaller spring removal tool is the one I always use,..... Made by Craftsman, Buy it once.
The pro tool compressor is very impressive.
Only took off two springs so far and it works very well.
At the price, I can't imagine the screw type,with the possibility of damaging the springs,being even considered.
Valve stem seal replacement complete.
The Alex's seals worked.
Had called Felpro and spoke to there tech. and ordered the ones he recommended.They were to small.
All of the springs that hadn't broken had a nick were the ones that broke.
Looked at the receipt for the work on the heads and new seals were not listed.Can only assume the installer did something to them that caused the nick.
02-02-2019, 05:45 AM
