scottmoyer

My son and I have discussed building a car for many years. My objective was to start with a solid body car, but one that needed an engine. The problem is finding a car that doesn't need any body work, interior work, etc, but only needed engine, trans and suspension. We haven't been looking because of other financial requirements, but the thought has crossed both of our minds on using the '82.

The pace car is in great shape body wise and needs nothing. The interior needs minor stuff and fits the requirement of not needing an entire rebuild there. The engine, trans and suspension are desperately lacking though. The 145hp LG4 and 4 speed T-10 need help!!! In stock form, the '82 pace car doesn't have much value. It has the garage now and my wife wants her new car in the garage and she doesn't understand why a 35 year old car worth $15k or less gets the garage when her new car sits out. I agree with her.

So, the car doesn't have much value, but because it was my dad's car, I plan on keeping it. So, I need some help in keeping the car looking original, but building the engine to perform. I was also planning on replacing the T10 with a T5.

What suggestions do you guys have on keeping the car looking mostly original under the hood, but increasing power? I will also upgrade suspension components to eliminate some of the body roll the car seems to have now. Not sure if that's the tires or not, so new tires are coming also.

What do I need to build the LG4 up? I read a post from Hot Rod and SuperChevy where they got well over 300hp from an LG4. Any more recent upgrade components that you guys recommend? I need to keep the original hood and do not plan on dropping in a 350, so don't go there. I'm hoping to keep it as close to stock looking as possible, but will deviate where needed. Thanks.

Thought:
cam? heads, intake, carb?

Biledriver

Is the 4 speed a hydraulic or mechanical clutch? I've never checked out a 82 before. The later 5 speed is hydraulic and might have to go that way. Glad the wife is letting you keep it out of the elements, good luck fixing up your dads old car.

scottmoyer

It's a mechanical clutch.

And, unfortunately, the wife might be getting the garage back. I need a lift and the garage door raised, but that won't be happening any time soon!!! Like I mentioned, it's hard to justify keeping a 35 year old car worth $15k or less in the garage, and leaving a $45k car sitting in the driveway in the Florida elements.

burnout88

I would put a set of vortec heads on it. Maybe the 305 version part # 12558059 or the 350 version.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

What kind of power are you looking to make?

You could upgrade the LG4 to L69 specs and keep it looking factory. The pace car would have been a much better performer if it debuted with the L69/T-5/3.73 drive train.

A mild cam similar to the ZZ4 and the aluminum L98 heads would be nice performance upgrade as well.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Pull the 305 and 4spd as an assembly, fog the cylinders, wrap it all up in shrink wrap and store it away. Drop in a basic 350 crate motor preferably with a mild roller cam. Use a Qjet and a HO aircleaner and most people will probably never notice it's been changed. A pair of HO exhaust manifolds and Y-pipe, 3" exhaust. A good T5 hydraulic clutch and all, and a better gear set and it should move along pretty good. If you ever decide to back up, the parts will be still be there.

If you wanted more yet, you could follow the plans laid out in the old ZZ4 conversion kit, or look into Vortec heads, but altered intake bolt patterns, taller intakes, centerbolt valve covers, etc would stand out a bit.

F-body-fan

I Would also vote for pulling the engine & trans as one unit & storing it away. Then the car could always be brought back to what it is now, or very close anyway? I have a ZZ4 in a car that I built years back & it runs pretty darn strong. Its zero decked & I added an LT4 hot cam kit, but other than that its pretty much a stock ZZ4. makes nice power & you wouldn't have to modify anything to bolt it in. Runs great on the street with pump gas.

F-body-fan

Also agree on the heads. the ZZ3/4 heads fit nice & make decent power, but they don't flow well enough for big HP. if your shooting for more than 375HP, these heads will never do it imo. Great street power, but aftermarkets would be much better, but definitely not very stock looking.

I know you said don't mention the 350 route, but the ZZ intake sits pretty low, slightly higher than the stock setup. I could measure some things for you if you want. I am just such a nut over originality, that I would hate to see the original engine torn down after all these years of being original.

scottmoyer

Storing the engine and trans as an assembly is part of the reason for building this engine. Based on what I was reading, it looks like I could build the car to be over 300hp, which is more than any factory 3rd gen came with. I'm not looking for it to compete on the strip, but to just be enjoyable for cruising. The LG4 is too anemic and I believe it's hurting this car.

As for originality, the car has been repainted, which in some circles may be an improvement over a 35 year old original paint job, but also hurts its value. With that, building the LG4 to maintain it's original appearance, but improve on the sad 145hp is my goal. Plus the cost to do so doesn't appear too bad. From a quick search, it looks like parts could be around $1500-$2000 for the engine.

scottmoyer

Is there a lot of work involved with this? By what I was reading, the Vortec heads required work to be mated to an LG4 and also required center bolt valve covers. Is that true? How much modification is needed to mate the two?

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

I agree with the suggestion of pulling and preserving the 305.
Drop an L31 crate motor in it, after swapping the cam. Upgrade the manifolds and exhaust to HO/TPI standards.
Check out my sig for what that simple swap does. Other than the Vortec/Performer manifold, it's all stock appearance under the hood.

skinny z

Back in the old days, my first SBC was the 307 in a new to me 1968 Chevelle. (A 68 Pontiac Beaumont actually but few people know what a Beaumont was).
I did the basic hotrodding stuff to the 307 while keeping the short block in stock form. Fuelie heads, aluminium intake, Holley carb, reworked distributor, headers...By today's standards, I'm sure it wouldn't measure up but it was strictly a bolt-on affair. Eventually the 307 gave way to a 400 and bigger cam.
Anyway, the point here is if you want to build the 305, go ahead. You may find this magazine article interesting. It's a 1999 piece, but it's almost made to measure for what you want to do. Right down to the 82 Camaro and a LG4.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-...-engine-build/

skinny z

Or there's this article. Also magazine based but with the emphasis on the 305, they deal with valve sizes, combustion chamber volume and cam selection suited to that engine architecture.

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/eng...-add-168-rwhp/

F-body-fan

The 307 got a bad rap because it came in a time of the "smogger" engines & iirc the blocks had low nickel content & had a tendency to wear & start burning oil. low compression & not much power


But, they could be built to be a high revving monster. nearly .25" shorter stroke over the 305/350 & if you bump the compression & let them breath they can scream. I had a friend build one in his 73 Nova SS behind a 4 speed. very fast car at the time.


Great memories of that car.


307 would be a really cool engine to build if you could find one


I know we are all running away from using the original 305 short block. Sorry Scott....... I was just reminiscing

Drew

iTrader: (58)

On a dyno, sure. But how are the street manners of a 300hp 305 going to compare to a LS1, or even a typical 300hp 350?

A Goodwrench 350 is $1500 all new. Pop in a $100 cam set and you'd be close to your goals. An L31 350 Vortec crate motor is a hair over $2k, all new with Vortec heads, hypereutectic pistons, roller cam, 1pc rear main seal, rubber pan gasket, rubber valve cover gaskets. Add a mild cam and you'd have your goal and then some with a more modern engine that wouldn't wipe cam lobes on modern oil or **** oil all over the place.

If you're going to do it, do it right.

skinny z

Re-reading your original post, I see mention of Hot Rod and Super Chevy. Probably the two I posted links to. So much for those suggestions.

That said, I still wouldn't shy away from the 305 although the recommendations of pulling the 305 and dropping in a 350 are valid. Considering that you want to do a transmission and clutch upgrade, you may find it easier with entire engine and trans assembly removed.

scottmoyer

Ok. Eventually, the car will be my sons. I discussed options with him and he thinks we should consider pulling the LG4 and T10, and putting in a 350 with a T5. He wants to build the car up into a semi-street car with sub frame connectors, posi rear end, coil overs, new suspension, brakes and exhaust. We've discussed building a car in the past, and he thinks this is the perfect car for that build. I may try to find someone interested in the engine/trans so I won't need to store it.

I'm of the belief that a 1982 Z28, pace car or not, with the original LG4 and trans will not be something collectors will just have to have, so putting it back to original is probably not going to be a requirement for value sake.

burnout88

The only issue with Vortecs in stock form is you cannot run a cam over .450 lift without upgrading the springs which does require some very mild machine work to the head. And yes you will need centerbolt valve covers.

Otherwise it is fairy easy swap. However, with a 305 I would not go to big on a cam anyway due to that small 305 cylinder bore. Also, you cannot run a head with a valve size bigger than 1.94/1.50.

The 305 is just a little tricky to work with on a performance basis but you can get some decent numbers out of one.

burnout88

If you go 350 swap. YearOne sells a great 400 hp crate motor for $3,200 complete ready to run. Is has a gm hot cam in it with some trick Vortecs. I seen this motor swapped into a few chevelle's and camaros and it is putting out all of that 400 hp. It's a real tire burner behind a manual trans car.

It's a sweet deal. https://www.yearone.com/Product/1982-02-camaro/ct350pc1

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

Vortec heads don't require machine work for higher lift. Just get a proper set of springs and retainers, and you can have lift over .550"

GASPEDDLER

iTrader: (2)

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scottmoyer

Thanks for the suggestions. Since I opened this to get advice on building the 305, but decided to go the 350 route, I'm not sure if there's any else to discuss. Thanks guys.

TURBOTOMMY

300hp from a carbed 350 is too easy,,,i say go for 400-450

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

A nice carbed 350 pace car will be a great sleeper!

rarebmx

iTrader: (6)

I understand that this was your father's car & your son wants to keep it. What would your father think? Just a thought but possibly sell the Pace Car & go find a car that has already been swapped or is not original to build. No one thought much about a lot of the older cars UNTIL there were hardly any originals left.
Personally I would LOVE to have an original Pace Car & original is THE KEYWORD term for me.
I think your father & son project should start with a different car.
Value isn't everything to consider, you're also a curator for future generations. If you want to stick with a Pace Car the there are plenty of one's to rebuild out there but VERY FEW nice originals.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Honestly I hate to see this car modded in any way myself just too many other 3rd gens out there that are good candidates to mod. Your car is a true collector LG4, repaint, or not. Its your decision though not mine.

scottmoyer

We've all discussed value of these cars in many threads. A 145hp car does not carry much value. The pace car design is what makes this car attractive, not it's performance. I'm against someone taking a perfect IROC-Z or later Z28 to mod, but these early cars with the LG4 is a different story. I need a good base to start with and this car is just that.

With no intentions of selling the car later, it's value is in what my son and I can do together with it to make it what we want. If the work is done right, the car will look stock from the outside, but drive better and will be able to keep up with the Kia in the next lane.

If you look at the coveted 1969 Camaro, the ones that are the most desirable are the original SSs, Z28s and special edition models. The base model, even with the V8, does not carry much desire, until it's been resto modded. Then, people look beyond the fact that it's a base model and see it for what it is now.

My mother tried selling this car before and couldn't. She tried to trade it and the dealer said they couldn't give her what it was worth because they don't deal in classic cars. She took it to a classic car dealer and they wouldn't take it because it IS a Z28, and in excellent condition, but nobody wants to spend good collector car money on a car with 145hp! She then realized that the only way to sell this car was to advertise it and sit on it until t sold. She even reached out to the local clubs to see if they could help, but got the same story.

My first and second cars were 1982 and 1983 Z28s, so I love the early car, but I don't like the 4 speed and I don't like how slow this is. I don't believe that adding horsepower and performance to this car will hurt it in any way. It will make it more enjoyable for my son and myself.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

I absolutely think adding overdrive is a sound decision.
The V8 T5 would work out well. I liked the 3.73 rear / 0.63 5th / cammed L69 combo I had quite well and similar could work well for the 350 you end up with.

If it a definite forever car, the T56 Magnum (really a TR6060) is actually a sound option. It gives the option of similar (to GM v8t5) 1-4 ratios, easily adjustable 5 and 6 if you want, speedo cable drive. Edit: I might add, for good, street able fun, if you don't have 3.42 or 3.73 gears, they should be part of your plans to work well with the OD trans.

The mechanical linkage is nothing to keep; I have run the mech, the 84-92, and plenty of 93-97 and 98-up clutch releases.
Happy building with your son. I look forward to those same events in life.

rarebmx

iTrader: (6)

All very good points. Make it the cleanest and coolest Pace Car out there then! Can't argue with solid facts & truly is yours to do with what you want.
I thought it was extremely low miles & really an almost perfect car.
Even my later cars seem to hardly get out of their own way. Pretty bad our AMG can run circles around any of our erd gens

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

For valve cover stealth, search for "abc center bolt adapter"... to get this from Jegs.