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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
Growing up I wasn't taught and didn't learn anything about cars. Now I'm 27 and decided I wanted to learn, so 2 weeks ago I purchased a 84 Camaro z28 305 HO for $1100 got the chilton/haynes book for it and got to work. So far I have fixed old vacuum hoses, changed oil and filter, flushed the radiator, pulled out most of the A/C components since I don't want them in there, and later this week I'll be doing the spark plugs, wires and putting in a new fuel filter.
While i've been familiarizing myself with the vehicles i've found some things, I'm not sure what they are called but i've got some questions about them and figured you guys might give me a hand figuring it out.
In the first pic with my hand in it, I believe this is the Air management valve (according to this diagram i've got)? well that hose where my thumb is runs across there attaches to that round thing which attaches it to an aluminum tube, then makes a down turn about 6 inches where I see from underneath the car that the tube is snapped off. Does anyone know what this is and what ill effects the tube being not attached could have?
in the second picture ( bad lighting sorry) that is where I add brake fluid, the portion toward the bottom where the curly bit of pipe comes from, when I feel the bottom of that thing there is like a small rubber...nipple and a very slow drop of brake fluid is leaking from it. What is this part and how could i stop the leak?
Please forgive my ignorance and thank you for any help you could give
Welcome to TGO! I believe that tube being snapped off with cause your computer in the car to be angry due to emissions stuff not working correctly (my car was a roller...so I never had anything like that to look at but that's my guess).
No clue on the brake part, sounds like that rubber piece needs to be replaced.
If i am not mistaken that valve is actually a heater control valve. It functions to manage the flow of coolant through the heater core. It allows coolant to flow through the heater core only when the heater is turned on. This means the car will be cooler on the inside when the heater is turned off.
So you can remove it but your interior might be a little bit hotter.
Some info here... https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/cool...ve-bypass.html
Hope this helps!
If i am not mistaken that valve is actually a heater control valve. It functions to manage the flow of coolant through the heater core. It allows coolant to flow through the heater core only when the heater is turned on. This means the car will be cooler on the inside when the heater is turned off.
So you can remove it but your interior might be a little bit hotter.
Some info here... https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/cool...ve-bypass.html
Hope this helps!
That's the Air management valve he is holding. The Heater Control Valve is similar but looks like this
the upper image is the one that is inside my hood and the diagram im following. but as I see it here, it doesn't really show the air management valve going anywhere else really. Going to the gym now and right when I get back I'll get more pictures of the area and the tube i said was broken off. I appreciate all the replies and help guys, I don't really have anyone to help me here so I'm relying a little bit on this board for direction.
Ok so here are some more pictures and a new question lol
Red circle is busted line in question
green arrow is front of car
pink arrow is exhaust
small blue arrow is what I thought it might have broken off of, but it is something else entirely, has something in it that leads back up towards engine
I cannot find any other pieces that look like it broke free from. Is this part of the EFE?
I believe, (at least on my car which is a TBI, so should be similarly set up to yours which is probably a carb) that the aluminum tube you have connects from the passenger side exhaust manifold to the drivers side.
If you try and trace the lines on the air valve, I'm pretty sure you'll find that one line comes from your smog pump, one goes into the passenger side exhaust manifold, and one is supposed to go to the drivers side manifold. I probably am not 100% correct on the routing here, but I think it's somewhat similar.
What I'm trying to say is that the smog system has an aluminum tube like that and I believe it connects both manifolds to each other. Either that OR it connects somewhere to the exhaust piping. That tube that is broken is most likely that smog tubing. On mine, that same tube was also cut I think around where yours was. I don't remember if I did that or if the previous owner did..... I completely changed my exhaust and could no longer use the smog setup.
The smog pump helps pump in fresh air into the exhaust which is some emissions thing to help the cat do it's job or something. Probably something to do with adding extra oxygen to turn CO into CO2, either that or helping to get rid of something else bad in the exhaust. With a hole there, you probably have a small/medium sized exhaust leak. Nothing to be super worried about, but something I'd address somewhat soon.
Getting rid of the smog system (since your line is broken) is pretty easy to do, has no negative effects on the car, and you car will still run very clean (if running properly) so you can easily pass emissions if you cat/egr are functioning. Now, if your state does under-hood inspections and are very thorough and strict, you may not be able to get rid of it, but I know a lot of people do and most states don't seem to care. Here in Arizona it isn't a problem. If it were me, I'd probably ditch the whole smog system so you can clean up the engine bay and make it easier to work on. It makes changing plugs much easier without all the junk in the way. Otherwise, you'll have to find some piping to reconnect that to it's original location. If it is hot exhaust that runs through that pipe, it will be difficult finding a hose that will last under the heat to repair that, so replacing the whole pipe would be a better option.
For your second question, the thing with all the curvy lines coming out of it is the proportioning valve for the brake system. It is directly under your master cylinder which you fill with brake fluid.
Again, not 100% sure here (but I'm pretty sure) that under that rubber nipple that you say is leaking, there is a bleeder valve. You should be able to remove the rubber nipple and see a bleeder. If that is the case, you should be able to tighten the bleeder valve ( with a small wrench or long socket) and stop the leaking (that is unless the threads or something are damaged which would be very unlikely unless the previous owner did something dumb.)
I believe, (at least on my car which is a TBI, so should be similarly set up to yours which is probably a carb) that the aluminum tube you have connects from the passenger side exhaust manifold to the drivers side.
If you try and trace the lines on the air valve, I'm pretty sure you'll find that one line comes from your smog pump, one goes into the passenger side exhaust manifold, and one is supposed to go to the drivers side manifold. I probably am not 100% correct on the routing here, but I think it's somewhat similar.
What I'm trying to say is that the smog system has an aluminum tube like that and I believe it connects both manifolds to each other. Either that OR it connects somewhere to the exhaust piping. That tube that is broken is most likely that smog tubing. On mine, that same tube was also cut I think around where yours was. I don't remember if I did that or if the previous owner did..... I completely changed my exhaust and could no longer use the smog setup.
The smog pump helps pump in fresh air into the exhaust which is some emissions thing to help the cat do it's job or something. Probably something to do with adding extra oxygen to turn CO into CO2, either that or helping to get rid of something else bad in the exhaust. With a hole there, you probably have a small/medium sized exhaust leak. Nothing to be super worried about, but something I'd address somewhat soon.
Getting rid of the smog system (since your line is broken) is pretty easy to do, has no negative effects on the car, and you car will still run very clean (if running properly) so you can easily pass emissions if you cat/egr are functioning. Now, if your state does under-hood inspections and are very thorough and strict, you may not be able to get rid of it, but I know a lot of people do and most states don't seem to care. Here in Arizona it isn't a problem. If it were me, I'd probably ditch the whole smog system so you can clean up the engine bay and make it easier to work on. It makes changing plugs much easier without all the junk in the way. Otherwise, you'll have to find some piping to reconnect that to it's original location. If it is hot exhaust that runs through that pipe, it will be difficult finding a hose that will last under the heat to repair that, so replacing the whole pipe would be a better option.
For your second question, the thing with all the curvy lines coming out of it is the proportioning valve for the brake system. It is directly under your master cylinder which you fill with brake fluid.
Again, not 100% sure here (but I'm pretty sure) that under that rubber nipple that you say is leaking, there is a bleeder valve. You should be able to remove the rubber nipple and see a bleeder. If that is the case, you should be able to tighten the bleeder valve ( with a small wrench or long socket) and stop the leaking (that is unless the threads or something are damaged which would be very unlikely unless the previous owner did something dumb.)
Hey all that was actually pretty helpful! Thanks. When you mentioned it might be coming from the exhaust manifold it caught my eye because there are very similar tubes moving around on the mirrored opposite side, so you very possibly are right. And I was actually searching today on the forums for getting rid of smog since i already started pulling out the a/c components. Also I do very much want to simplify the engine bay. I'll be checking it out further tomorrow when the sun is up.
And i'll also check for that bleeder valve
Thanks again Bubba!
Edit. Texas exempts this car from emissions testing because it is older than 25 years
Quick update. 95% of the smog stuff is out, made changing my plugs easier albeit #8 was still a bi*** and a half to get in and out lol. I searched a lot of places for the 1/4" flare plugs to fill the manifold holes left behind, couldn't find any so ordered some via amazon prime, should have them monday.
Now, what should i do about the PCV valve and vacuum hoses connected to the purge valve and canister control valve?? The purge seems to take in vapors from the evap cannister, can i just plug that evap straight into the carb?
The part that is leaking on the proportioning valve i can't seem to break loose...and apparently the 84 disc/drum proportioning valve is no longer made
Quick update. 95% of the smog stuff is out, made changing my plugs easier albeit #8 was still a bi*** and a half to get in and out lol. I searched a lot of places for the 1/4" flare plugs to fill the manifold holes left behind, couldn't find any so ordered some via amazon prime, should have them monday.
Now, what should i do about the PCV valve and vacuum hoses connected to the purge valve and canister control valve?? The purge seems to take in vapors from the evap cannister, can i just plug that evap straight into the carb?
The part that is leaking on the proportioning valve i can't seem to break loose...and apparently the 84 disc/drum proportioning valve is no longer made
Hmm for the PCV valve, doesn't that come directly from your throttle body to your driver's side valve cover? That's how mine is routed. I ended up keeping mine on when I redid my engine because it's not too much in the way and I think a beneficial thing to keep on, but if you get rid of it, you should be able to just put an oil breather on top of it. As for the vacuum lines for the purge valve. The way mine is ran (for vacuum) is that there is a vacuum line that runs from the throttle body to the purge valve, then to the canister (the valve is separate on my canister while some older ones they are connected.) Is yours not set up that way?
Good thing you'll have those plugs too for your manifolds! I knew that when I ordered my new exhaust, I was going to get rid of those tubes. I ended up cutting them off and welding them closed, then sending my headers to get ceramic coated. I can tell you I don't miss having them.
It's true I don't think you can get a new proportioning valve... If all else fails, you should be able to pick one up fairly easily at a junk yard, but hopefully you won't have to do that. Is the part that won't break loose have a threaded fitting, like a bleeder valve? And if so, is it starting to strip or it just doesn't want to budge? I can't think of much to get it loose other than trying to budge it with a proper sized wrench or socket. Otherwise taking it completely off and drilling it or heating with a torch may be an option.... but that wouldn't be very exciting. Plus you would have to make sure you have a new bleeder valve on hand. At that point, getting a proportioning valve from a yard would be a better option.
Oh I didn't mean to get rid of the pcv, I understand that it is pretty useful, I just meant that it has one tube going to throttle body like you say, and another going to the canister control valve ( my mistake not purge valve), I was wondering what to do with the CCV and its tubing.
Unfortunately, the 1/4" flare fittings I read on TGO were going to fill the exhaust manifold holes, did not fit the holes at all and I found some non flare plugs with the same threading, but I believe the old manifold is just rusty and pissed off because 4 of the 8 I installed are still leaking some exhaust gasses now
This motor runs a little rich and also I believe has a coolant leak based on the white smoke it lets out of the exhaust.. a good bit at start up and for 5 mins of idle, then it diminishes but is still visible after warmed up. I fear a head gasket is to fault, but i will get some UV dye and check the coolant ( is this a good idea?)
(above is picture of proportioning valve cut away) I couldn't get this image to upload for some reason so heres a link. That furthest bottom portion I couldn't get to budge when I went at it with a ratchet.
If the motor was running very well i'd not hesitate to get some headers to replace these manifolds and its holes. But If this motor turns out to be no bueno I'd rather save my money for a new motor and trans.
After this busy time at work ( UPS) i've planned to put away 5k to put into this cars motor and trans swap.. I hope this is enough to make the car a decent little street car
Hmm well with the CCV, you should be able to have that directly go to the carb (if you're keeping it) through a vacuum port. It may originally share a vacuum line with the pcv valve if there aren't as many vacuum ports on the carb compared to the tbi throttle body. If you are going to get rid of it, I don't think it's too hard but I haven't done it so I'm not sure exactly what to do (as in leaving ports open or not, I think you do want there to be some release of vapors instead of blocking everything off.)
That's too bad the fittings don't work either.. if you had access to a welder, I'd say to try and clean up the area around the holes and then weld the bolts in so prevent any leaking.
A good way to test if you are burning coolant is to rent a block tester from a local parts store. It's basically a big turkey baster type thing that covers your radiator cap, that you fill with a special purple type of fluid. You turn the car on with the radiator cap off, then put the block tester over the opening filled about halfway full, and squeeze the bulb on top a bunch when the engine is warmed up.
It lets gasses enter the tester, but not coolant. If any exhaust gasses are found in the coolant, the fluid will start to turn from purple, to green, then yellow. Basically, if it changes color at all, you have exhaust gasses entering your coolant which would basically guarantee a head gasket leak. Depending on if it's green or yellow determines the magnitude of the leak.
One other possible thing it could be besides a head gasket leak is that you are burning oil instead.
When oil burns, it has a slight bluish tint, but it can be really hard to distinguish if it's blue or white. I thought I may have had a head gasket leak when I first bought the car, but it ended up being bad valve stem seals. Basically, when the car sits, the bad stem seals let oil seep in through the valves into the combustion chamber. When you first start the car, a bunch of the oil is burned up and hence a lot of smoke. Sometimes they can be bad enough where you continually see smoke also.
If you really did have a head gasket leak, your exhaust may have a sweet smell to it (if you are running antifreeze) and you car would most likely heat up very quickly and most likely overheat.
As for running rich, if you have a big enough exhaust leak before your O2 sensor on your drivers side manifold, it could be casing the rich condition.
As for that bottom fitting, that's definitely a bleeder valve. It you don't feel like the actual hex head of the valve is stripping, what I'd do is get a ratchet with a socket that fits over it (make sure there is no play in the socket, you want it to fit as snug as possible without it being too small where you can't get it on) and keep trying to budge it off. If you have a small pipe or something that can fit over the ratchet, then try using that as extra leverage. Just make sure that the socket isn't too big or it will start to strip the hex part of the bleeder valve, which will cause more trouble.
You should be able to buy new bleeder valves that would thread into that. I'm not sure what size but it may not be too hard to get once you have it off and bring it to a parts store.
I do know a master welder i'll check into the manifold issue
Block tester.. k I just watched a youtube video on it. I'll check the autozone and O'reillys near me. (side note today I found a small pool of coolant ontop of the engine near the head gasket area and valve cover)
I don't really notice it being sweet really.. probably burning oil as well
Bleeder valve, when I get after this thing and bust it loose, will the brake fluid spill out? what should I do to remove fluid prior if that will happen?
Figured while I try and decide out what im going to do about this motor I'd get after the suspension. So i've got some koni front and rear shocks on the way, Umi PHB and rear control arms. bushing set.
10-20-2015, 11:01 PM
