papapayne

Hello all,

I recently got a new car, 1985 Trans Am. It was originally a 305 LB9 car. It now is a mystery carbed motor...was wondering if anyone could provide insight on what to do to narrow it down?

papapayne

to help aid, the heads are bolted down on the exterior, torker intake manifold, mech. fuel pump on passenger side, computer controlled 1406 edlebrock.

midias

Perimeter bolt valve covers so pre 86. Check the block and head casting numbers. The head casting numbers are easy to see and under the valve cover. They won't 100% tell you what motor but they will give you a guess.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Get the suffix code on the pad on engine.

The pad is on block, pass side, in front of the head. Behind your alt.

It will be a Letter, 4 numbers, and 2 or 3 letters and/or numbers

You will need to use a cleaner, and a brush to clean the pad real good and wipe it with a rag as the numbers are stamped in and will fill up with dirt, grease, etc.

This will tell you the plant it was made at, day and mo. made and what car it was installed in, engine size, compression, horsepower, factory induction system,

papapayne

sweet ty guys will check there.

Still pretty excited and learning more about the car. looks like I have 4 wheel disk brakes equipped.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Oh btw that carb is NOT computer controlled. It's a 600 cfm, elec. choke carb.

Looks like oil dipstick is on the pass. side of engine, so that's 1980 and newer (unless it's a replacement / crate engine block like the GM goodwrench, which has places for both pass and driver side dipsticks)

Perimeter bolt valve covers so that's 1986 and older.(atleast for the heads, you can swap just about any sbc head to just about any sbc block) .

Based on the above two things that leaves us in the 1980-86 year range.

In 80-86 the only sbc V8 engines made were...
267 in 80-82
305 in 80-86
350 in 80-86
400 in 80

papapayne

yea, the owner said he thought it was a 4 bolt main 350, but that was 3rd hand knowledge of owners, so verification definitely needed.

novaderrik

i can say without any doubt whatsoever that it's definitely a small block Chevy you've got there. passenger side dipstick says it's newer than 80 or so: so it's not a 262, 265, 283, 327, or 400.. it could be a 267, 305, or 350.. it might have a 2 piece rear main seal, or a 1 piece seal that is or isn't set up for a factory roller cam.. the orange paint is definitely not original to the engine since it's newer than 1975: they went to light blue in the late 70's, but it would have been black from the factory since it has the passenger side dipstick- GM did this to hide oil leaks and make the miles of vacuum hoses visually disappear.

the heads are from some time after 1968 or so when they started drilling accessory holes in the heads. i can't really tell for sure, but the gauge temp sender looks to be the smaller 3/8" NPT to me, so that puts the heads in the 80's some time.

the front accessory brackets and water pump are the 76-87 setup, but the flat belt (oftentimes incorrectly called a "serpentine" belt) puts it in the later side of that range, probably stock to the car.

look at the pad under the alternator fo figure out where the block came from, then pop a valve cover to see what the last 3 numbers of the casting number are to tell you where the heads came from. this also allows you to see if it's got anything cool loke better valve springs and roller rocker arms.

the numbers you find will tell you what the block and heads were in originally, but they will tell you nothing about what's inside of it if it's ever been rebuilt.. the only way to know for sure what it is would be to pull it out and tear it down.

papapayne

So, looks to me like the code was Like 0212TFX. In front there looked to be a / or maybe a 7 or an x. So /0212TFX

novaderrik

according to this site, the TFX suffix code comes back as a 1979 350 4 barrel with an earth shaking 155 hp or a 1982 350 with an unspecified power rating.. both of them appear to be HD truck engines, so the likelihood of having 4 bolt mains goes up a lot, not that 4 bolt mains really do anything special in passenger cars below about 500hp..
hopefully yours has had something done to it..

midias

Nice now pull the valve covers and see what the head casing number is?

papapayne

It has an aftermarket cam of unknown model. Owner said it was a thumper, as per the previous owner. Then the torker manifold, so it has some stuff done. It seems pretty fresh as well, I degrease it, and it looks nearly brand new paint. Oil pressure is really good as well.

midias

Thumper and a torker he really hated good modern parts .

Get the head casting numbers. It might be a good place to start for upgrades

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

02= Feb
12 = 12th day of mo.

TFX = Has 2 listings, Both 350s, one is a 79 and one is 82

Being you have pass side dipstick we know it can't be the '79... SO

1982 350 used in conversion vans, van, bus, C10-3500 truck lines,
M vin code,
LT9 RPO code,
4bbl carb,
8.3:1 compression,
76cc heads,
160 HP @ 3800RPM,
250 lb-ft torque @ 2800RPM
Factory new spec for oil pressure 45 psi @ 2,000 rpm

papapayne

You guys ****ing rock! TY so much for the info. I now know what parts will be correct for it, gotta do a nice tune up on it. Also, with the torker intake the carb is a lot higher then stock, with the low profile hood, the air cleaner hits a bit. I need to get a different air cleaner set up that doesn't smash up into the hood. Any suggestions?

Wife'sCar

iTrader: (1)

Could do something like this

m.summitracing.com/parts/edl-1002

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

F the suffix code.

All that tells you is, AT BEST, what application THE BLOCK came in originally. Doesn't tell you A DAMN THING about THE MOTOR that now inhabits THE BLOCK. Might tell you the CID, within certain limits; that's about it.

A rebuilt engine won't necessarily have the same stroke, cam, heads, carb, oil pump, chamber cc's, compression, HP, or ANY of the other "specs" for THE MOTOR that originally inhabited THE BLOCK.

You can take a "71 LT-1 Vette" BLOCK and stick some 76cc smogger heads with 1.84" / 1.5" valves on, slide in a 929 cam, and jam a set of 18cc dish pistons with .050" of deck clearance into it, and create a 150 HP wonder of MOTOR.

Conversely you can just as easily take a 75 Impala 2-bbl 165 HP BLOCK and put forged dome pistons, 64cc double-hump angle-plug heads, and a solid roller cam in it, and zero-deck the block to the pistons, and create a 600 HP mountain MOTOR out of it.

You need head casting numbers, piston part #s AND MEASUREMENTS, and cam part #, to know ACCURATELY what "motor" you have. The BLOCK stamping tells you NONE WHATSOEVER of that, once the MOTOR has been touched internally.

If there is ANY ONE air cleaner shaped object NOT to get, it would be that one. The famous "triangle of death" POS.

A better plan of attack would be to get rid of the obsolete intake that's costing you power and gas mileage and replace it with something modern, put a cam that's more appropriate to whatever head/piston (compression) combo you actually observe that you have when you leave off wasting your time on "codes" and instead LOOK AT THE PARTS, and THEN worry about an air cleaner.

First things first. Gather your info, analyze the strengths and shortcomings, repair as many of the shortcomings as you can while retaining or improving the strengths, and THEN AND ONLY THEN worry about the big chunks of krome up on top right where you can get to em eeeeezy and ooooh and aaaaah over em.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

I do agree with Sofa on a few points but not all.

Sofa... the op is a novice and the code can and did help him out. You or me could look at the engine and know it's a sbc, 80-86, 2 pc rear main seal. This guy didn't have a clue to any of that. If he needed an oil pan gasket, or any other parts he would have had to tear into it, take parts to store and try to match them up.

The codes gave him the basics that we could have seen at 1st glance.

But you are 100% right on most of the other though. That 1982 350 could in fact be anything from a 302 by installing a 3.00" stroke crank and correct pistons to a 408 by installing a 4.00" stroke crank and correct pistons

I have used many 327 blocks to build 302s and 350s, and have used 350 blocks to build 302s and 327s

I also agree that the torker intake is a poor choice for the OPs engine. He would be better off with even an edelbrock performer or better yet performer rpm intake.

Now for the air cleaner... Use a a drop base bottom, with a 1" or 1.5" drop base you should be able to fit a 2.5" tall, maybe even 3" tall filter under the hood

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

No, we can't.

All we could tell is that THE BLOCK is a SBC, 80-85 (not 86); we still wouldn't know ANYTHING about THE ENGINE.

2 very different things.

The point about "novice" is very extremely true: and one thing novices generally think, not realizing the truth, is that because the SBC has been around so long and all the parts interchange, some random rebuilt ENGINE of virtually ANY type whatsoever can be built from ANY random BLOCK. It's not like some other motor designs where if you have some given BLOCK, then only a narrow range of heads, cams, oil pans, etc. etc. etc. can fit on it.

Worse yet, there have been multiple cases I've seen where people have stamped THE WRONG codes onto a rebuilt block, for just this exact reason: to fool whoever into thinking that it's a 350 instead of a 305, that it's a "numbers matching" DZ 302 instead of a BLOCK from a 75 Malibu 350 2-bbl, etc.

I always advise IGNORING those "codes" for a large number of reasons. They require some sort of database to look them up in, and there is no such thing (besides ones like NastyZ28's where different people have merely self-reported what they think they had); they can be faked; some have been re-used over the years, leading to ambiguity; and of course, as described, if the motor has been TOUCHED let alone "rebuilt", they only tell, AT BEST, what THE BLOCK once was part of instead of what THE ENGINE is now.

MUCH better data is available from casting numbers. The block casting number is conveniently located in the most accessible and readily visible spot they could possibly have put it: [/sarcasm] on top of the bell housing flange, behind the driver's side head. The last 3 digits are also on the side and front of the block, often visible from underneath. While those are possible to fake (grind them off, re-create with epoxy) it's AHELLUVALOT rarer; and since the "database" of casting numbers is FAR smaller, and doesn't rely on people accurately self-reporting what they think their car came with 40 years ago, it's more likely to tell the truth.

I also disagree about "drop base" air cleaners. Imagine if you will, building intake systems that are progressively taller, yet keeping the air cleaner lid at a constant location. As the intake becomes taller, the top of the carb gets closer and closer to the underside of the air cleaner lid, to the point where the choke tower almost touches it in many cases. It doesn't produce the expected results to put a tall, free-flowing intake that directs the air smoothly toward the heads, but then force all the air to pass though a narrow slit and do an immediate 90° before it even gets to the carb. This is particularly true with those tall user-hostile chromed Carter carbs like the one on the car here, that don't ever fit the car properly. A less tall carb such as a Holley has this issue to a slightly lesser degree.

I do agree strongly with the Performer RPM as the choice of intake. Unfortunately it aggravates the air cleaner situation somewhat. BUT... since the hood slopes DOWN toward the front, and the engine slopes UP toward the front, the place the air cleaner interferes, is the very front of it; if you use a smaller dia one, you can get the lid up off the air horn a good bit farther before it hits the hood. You don't want to go TOO small of course; not like those ones that are only the same size as the carb flange; but a 8" dia instead of a 14" or something, can make a HUGE improvement in the overall fit. It's also possible in some cases to notch out the reinforcement on the underside of the hood but this should be approached only with great caution, to avoid weakening it.

papapayne

Thank you guys for all your help. I am definitely a newbie. I can remove and replace, and follow chiltons and such, but definitely not a master mechanic or anything. Didn't really grow up working on cars, but found the love of it as I got older. I hope to one day have the knowledge to build myself a second gen, but for now, the third gen presented a fun, v8 RWD car that parts are still readily available for with out paying an arm n a leg.

I definitely intend to get what I can outta the motor with bolt ons, and I plan on doing the paint n body, and get it all new weatherstripping, and good to drive. Its not my daily driver, as I have a motorcycle and a trailblazer.

I picked up a set of plugs wires cap n rotor, and picked up a shorter height air filter that lets the hood close without crushing.

papapayne

http://eugene.craigslist.org/pts/4974569911.html

papapayne

I am definitely able to pull and replace intakes, done that a few times on other vehicles. Would that be something to avoid buying used? anything to look at when purchasing used? I would imagine as long as its not cracked and that the surfacing isn't gouged so manifold won't leak

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Don't worry, we all were/are at one time or another.

A used intake can be OK... as you mentioned, not cracked or gouged, and the places where all the hardware goes including plumbing fitting in good shape, and the gasket surfaces not corroded too bad (esp where the thermostat goes).

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Yep we all had to start somewhere, so no worries there. People starting out now or even in the last 10 years or so has it much easier than those that got started before the internet craze. Easier to find info, test data, combos that work, etc.

Yes buying used intakes is a great way to go. I think in the past 15 years for my own cars I have only bought 2 new intakes, rest have been used.

Like sofa said, just check the intake out good. No cracks, all threaded holes are good, etc. #1 prob area would be the carb bolt holes. They can strip out pretty easily.

Wife'sCar

iTrader: (1)

I've never used one, but this is the first I have hear of this? Care to eleborate? I just figured it would be better than using to low of a lid and choking the airflow down. It's already going to be sucking in hot engine air either way right? Are the other ones prone to coming apart or something?

midias

This, do not get this


They are notorious for falling apart, clogging carbs, poor flow, catching fire etc

novaderrik

there is no need to tear into the engine to know exactly what's in it.. if it runs good, leave it be. it's probably just a stocker with a shitty cam and an obsolete intake because that's what the previous owner ran in a 327 with camel back heads back in 1969.. shiny new paint means nothing: it's easy to take an engine to the local coin operated car wash to hose it down then fog on a few coats of engine paint.. so if it has good oil pressure, doesn't leak oil or smoke, and doesn't drink antifreeze then just drive it.. worry about what you need to fix it when it breaks.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Yeah I fully agree about those crappy foam triangle air filters.

The foam breaks down and flakes off into the carb.

If you get an afterfire (backfire out of carb) the flames that shoot up can catch the foam on fire

They flow like crap
The don't filter very well at all

papapayne

so, was having issues with it missing, sputtering, and not idling. I figured, hey lets do a tune up and go from there. Did the spark plugs, well 7 of them lol All were rusty, and 1 was broken when I popped the wire cap off. The last one passenger side by firewall was pretty tight, but it came lose and threaded out. For the life of me, I cannot get the new plug in. I tried extensions and swivels, and finally resorted to 6 inches of emissions hose on the end of the plug. Will not at all thread. Wont bite in, etc. Leads me to believe the threads in the head are damaged. Please tell me there's a way to get this plug in without pulling the heads? I mean, I figure running a tap would do it, but I just envision metal flakes falling into the cylinder causing a issue down the road. Ideas? Thoughts?

midias

.


A tap with a heavy grease slowly in and out many times has done the job for me.

papapayne

after you tap do you have to sleeve it?

midias

Depends on the damage you may need to helicoil it. It is an easy to use kit

papapayne

I went and priced the kits, and the tools, and went and then talked to a mechanic friend I trust. Just gonna pay him to do it, he has the tools, knows how to do it, and I don't care to let my inexperience cause more damage to the heads. Won't be that much more to pay him vs buying the tools to do it, so its a win win for me. Im gonna watch/assist so that I learn it.

novaderrik

you can buy a special spark plug thread chaser for about $5.. put a goober of grease on it to catch any debris and screw it into the hole, but don't force it if it stops.

papapayne

Ended up being 45 bucks, only took him an hour or so to do. Not to shabby, saved me the trouble of it.

Got all the new spark plugs in now, fresh oil n filter, going to change the wires next, cap n rotor, and see if she will run better. It seems that when she gets hot, she doesn't want to idle at all. When cold, runs nice, idles and has 45 Pounds of oil pressure+

When warm, she won't idle about 300 and dies if you let off the gas. Starts right back up. I tried raising the idle a bit with the carb set screw on the throttle mechanicsm, got it to come up, but didn't really sound right and not very safe to drive with it that high. Noticed to when running at only 350 RPMS the oil pressure is very unstable, bounces 35-50 PSI.

papapayne

Got a new set of wires on, cap and rotor changed, new ignition coil, seems to perhaps resolve the problem. will withhold judgement till I drive it a bit

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Your carb is an elec choke version. The idle at cold start up is increased by the choke closing. You can adjust the choke and fast rpm idle for cold engine. Fast idle should be around 1000-1200 rpm or so

When warned up, the choke stays open... This idle speed is adjusted only when engine is at normal temp and choke is not closing. Normal idle speed should be around 600-750 rpm

papapayne

Yea, I got the fast idle and the choke idle all dialed in now! Seems to be running much much better. I suspect the ignition coil was a primary culprit, but a good tune up never hurts!

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

Cool deal. Glad you got her running better

papapayne

took a nice long country drive with the tops off. What a different ride now! Oil pressure is awesome, staying pretty steady around 45 PSI, idles like a dream, revs nice and pulls hard thru the whole power band.

Thanks guys for all your help!