SparksAj

Just like the title says

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

If you have a fuel leak, that is not the culprit. That is your EGR solenoid.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

If you have fuel coming from there, it's probably actually the fuel pressure regulator. (which is NOT in the pic)

SparksAj

Replaced the gasket. Car still won't Start. Have leaks coming from 2 different spots in exhaust(told it's common with flooding) and fuel coming out of here....which I know is not ok. Heellppp.

SparksAj

Double post

eseibel67

That part is the EGR valve. Not sure how you are getting fuel into it, however. Even if you are flooding and it doesn't start, the EGR valve is not commanded open until certain conditions are met, which include a minimum temp and RPM. My best guess is that the valve might be stuck open, not sure what else could cause this.

SparksAj

I replaced the gasket on the EGR. Fuel is no longer leaking out of there but still getting leaks from all over and the car won't turn over. Cranks and cranks just won't start. I'm being told from a couple friends(and also Sofaking) that it could be my pressure regulator. However, i can't seem to find where thats located on our car's? I've seen tons of videos where it is on other GM's, but not for our thirdgens.

Sorry about flooding the forums the past few days guys. Monica's important and vital to my life and i need to get her running again. All the problems as they happened did not seem directly related. Please don't ostracize me <3

Ransford2987

Your FPR is on your fuel rail, should look something like the picture I attached (the round part towards the left not labeled). Look for it on top, as the injectors are on top, 3 on each side.

On a different note, if you have fuel leaking, you aren't holding pressure in the fuel rail, so it more than likely won't start or even run like that. Not to mention it's probably not safe to drive a car with fuel leaking on the engine. I wouldn't drive that thing until you're SURE you fixed the fuel leaks.

SparksAj

Would that be the fpr then?
And does that make sense that it could be the culprit? The car wouldn't start, and I stupidly flooded it, because it's flooded so badly fuel is coming out of the smallest loose orifice. Would it make sense that replacing the fpr would begin to/potentially entirely fixed all the problems?

Ransford2987

That's not it. I don't know much about the 3.1s, but it should be toward the back/top of the engine. Probably under the top intake (plenum?). On the left maybe? Look for your fuel lines and try to follow them to the top of your engine. If your fpr has a broken diaphragm, then I guess that could be it. You should also ohm your injectors to see if they are the culprit. Also, before you start your car again, check your oil and smell for gas. If your oil is too thin from gas leaking into it, it needs to be changed.

SparksAj

Ok thank you. Anything else that you might recommend that could be it or suggest doing? I knew there was something wrong, but i didn't think it would become this bad

So you think it could be under that hard concrete feeling thing possibly? We'll remove that in the morning and look. We'll also do an oil change, but its likely going to be the very last thing done. When this is all finally fixed i'm going to owe you a beer or seven Ransford.

Ransford2987

Being that's it's fuel injected, the only way for fuel to get in the engine is by the injectors. Pressing the gas won't do anything out cause it to flood. That concrete thing is part of the intake (air) and it's aluminum . I just found this pic for disassembly and your fuel rail is underneath the intake plenum. Take that thing off and check the fpr diaphragm to see if it's ripped. If it isn't, I would look to your injectors. You should also go to AutoZone and rent their fuel pressure gauge. It's free if you return it. You can hook it up to see if your fuel rail is in fact holding pressure. I would do this before and after you check the fpr. If it holds pressure before, there's no need to take off the fpr. If it is holding pressure, make sure you relieve the pressure prior to messing with anything on your fuel rail. #26/28 in the first pic is the Schrader valve to do that.

SparksAj

Ok. Fine. 10 beers. Really though thanks a ton. We'll go in that order. Autozone, rent the gauge, buy the FPR just incase. Take the things apart, test it, if needed, replace, test again, hopefully its all fixed. I'll make sure to let everyone know what happens so this can be a reference for people in the future.

Ransford2987

Hahaha, awesome. I'll let you know the next time I'm in Orlando. Post your findings when you're done.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

You're not flooding anything if there's no fuel pressure due to a big leak. The fuel isnt making it into the engine at all. We know this because it's not starting. It's possible you've got some leaking injectors... but that is unlikely to show up on the outside of the engine the way you're describing.

SparksAj

Well I think it was showing up outside the engine because it was finding It's way out of any small crack from being completely flooded. Like squeezing toothpaste out of a pin sized hole. And for some reason is coming out of the throttle body as well. Exactly like in this.

toeman

And just as the video stated. Fuel Pressure Regulator is at fault. The diaphragm of it is leaking. So as you crank the motor, the motor produces vacuum, and the gas is going into the manifold via the hose attached to it. It is the only way gas will get into the intake.

If you had an open injector problem, the cylinder would get flooded and the motor would not crank.

SparksAj

Hard to see but there's a crack in it. Also was covered in fuel

SparksAj

There is also a pool of fuel underneath the regulator housing that keeps refilling itself while the car is off

jazzdadss

WOW! I have never seen gas just run out of the throttle body like a river! Damn! I would still think the cylinders were filling up with fuel. Defiantly take plugs out and spin over a few times to make sure the cylinders don't have puddles of fuel in them. Fix problem and install new plugs. Change oil.

SparksAj

Car starts!! First few times were really really rough. And I assume it's still burning off fuel because it's not running hard at all yet. White smoke came out of vents which I assume was fuel being burned off in places it should've never been. Still diagnosing. Got error code 33. Not sure what's causing it yet, we may have screwed around somewhere we shouldn't have

jazzdadss

Code 33. Unstable manifold vacuum, Rough or unstable Idle. If you started it with the vacuum line disconnected it would probably set this code. once it smooths out the code should go away.

SparksAj

It hasn't gone away after attempting to take it around the block a few times. Car is extremely choppy and has almost no acceleration. White smoke is entirely gone so just ignore that i guess. The part in yellow i circle, one of the connectors parts broke off when we removed the tubing and it isn't as long as it should be now so we just shoved it into the hole and put a zip tie around it(not shown in this picture) could this be the culprit? if so, what is it?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The hose circled in yellow is for the cruise control and HVAC vacuum.

To the left of that, high on the firewall, with the green connector is the MAP sensor. Since you are getting code 33 it is likely that the vacuum line to it isn't hooked up correctly. It goes to the port on the intake that has only it on it.

RBob.

SparksAj

So this wire right behind the green thing that runs to the back of the TB? Would be the vaccum hose that would have a leak potentially?

jazzdadss

Might want to make sure that MAP sensor is plugged in all the way, I see the clip is broken. You can run a zip tie around the sensor to hold the plug tight.
Yes, it looks like the black tube behind the plug. If that is fine make sure that no other vacuum lines did not get loose. Fuel in the lines can cause problems.

SparksAj

It actually was loose haha. My neighbor came right up and was like. Well let's try this. Boom. Ses light gone. Still running rough for some unknown reason though. About to check spark plugs to see if they got damaged by the flooding yesterday. Runs bad. Engine shakes, and stalled out on a less than half a mile drive around the neighborhood. But lights are cleared and she's starts!!

jazzdadss

Fix problem and install new plugs. Change oil.

You probably have some plugs that are fuel fouled.

SparksAj

I checked the 3 on the drivers side just now. They look good. Are there any tricks to getting the one closest to the bumper on the passenger side?

SparksAj

5 of the plugs looked pristine(as they should, I did a tuneup last Thursday). Is there a way of knowing if they actually went bad ?the 20 or so dollars to buy new ones isn't a big deal, it's just a PITA for a newbie like me to change them out himself and I'm running out of time since I need this fixed tomorrow by 3pm eastern. Would bad oil cause my car to have the acceleration problems? Basically.... No acceleration.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

Check the oil to make sure it doesn't smell like gas. IMO, if it's overfull or smells like gas, change it before running it again.

SparksAj

It doesn't smell of gas(I checked earlier) and if anything my oil is on the low side. When I spray carb cleaner on the FPR the rpms change so I think it may not be tightened as much as it should. We'll work on that tomorrow.

We didn't check the fuel injectors(stupidly) yet, I was told I could touch them with a screwdriver to test them. Is this true? I can't really gauge then with an ohms since the plenum covers them

SparksAj

Also, when I pulled out the plugs they were dry. If there was fuel in the cylinders it would be obvious and they would be wet correct?

jazzdadss

I would check and double check vacuum lines in that area. If you sprayed carb cleaner in that area and the Idle changed that would tell me that there is still a vacuum leak. Typically the plugs would be wet if they were fouled and you just shut the engine down. I would not worry about injectors at this time.

SparksAj

I'm about to head out to try to crack this case now, last night we thought the FPR might not have been on tight enough(when really it was) and ended up stripping the screws taking it off, and when it was put back on it was extremely loose and pretty much brought us back to the very beginning. Just got new screws to put it back on correctly again, we'll spray for leaks and i also bought some nifty seafoam to try.
I'm not sure if a vacuum hose leak could cause THIS big of a problem though, could it? there is literally no acceleration past the first tap of the pedal. I can floor it and it will ignore everything past that first initial touch. I'll post a video later if it can't be resolved

Ransford2987

about the carb cleaner (that your idle went up due to a vacuum leak). So did you take your FPR apart? The diaphragm was ok? There should be a vacuum line that connects to the top of the FPR to control fuel pressure, so that might be where the carb cleaner was draw into the engine. Could also be the plenum gaskets. Did you replace those? Do you still have fuel leaking everywhere? It sounds like it was running so clearly you fixed something.

Did you check your fuel pressure?

jazzdadss

Check vac to EGR as well. Hell, Check ALL vac lines.

SparksAj

Ok so the whole story of my car so far.
Wednesday. I flooded it, trying a whole variety of incorrect fixes.

Thursday I found out the FPR was the culprit. FPR had a crack in the diaphragm(its in a picture above somewhere). Fpr was fixed. Car started again. Other area's of the car were casulaties from flooding(or so i believe). We sprayed carb cleaner all over to hear idle changes. There was an idle change around the FPR so we thought we may have put the gasket on upside down so we took it off and put it back on. that caused TWO things to happen. In the process of taking it off and on again, we stripped the screws and had to mangle the screws top to screw it back in again(it does not screw as tightly anymore and thus there is a small leak around my NEW FPR. the SECOND problem was that the gasket was correct the first time and when we flipped it the sharp edges cut into my FPR.

Friday morning- We put the FPR on with the screws as stated above, its just loose, and there's small cracks in the diapraghm (completely our fault, do you think the warranty covers this, or that i can somehow lie about it?) I threw some seafoam in the fuel tank and the break booster vac hose, smmoooookkkee city. Drove it around the block for a minute or 2, and even with the disfigured FPR it runs better than it did thursday, but still not anywhere near how its supposed to. i'm under the impression the seafoam actually helped. currently its 1:20pm and i threw a little bit more seafoam in the vac hose(not much, just the remnants) and im waiting for it to settle so i can drive around the block some more again. Hopefully we're back to normal and the only issues are with my newly disfigured FPR and once i get it replaced all is right in the world.

SparksAj

Also, if it runs alright, i'm just going to get an oil change done at alittle valvoline place by my house. I know its super simple, but i've never done it before and i dont think this is the time to start trying to learn something so simple. I'd rather have it done by someone who knows what they're doing

jazzdadss

I would not run the car until the FPR is 100%

SparksAj

Sorry, i drove it. Though i completely understand what your saying about the dangers of leaking fuel in an engine area.

Anyway, i drove it, gunned it down a straightaway a couple times. Accelerates no problem now, though whenever i decelerate to around 10 mph, unless i keep constant gas flow, the car stalls out with error code 33. Dont think its the map sensor, i think it would be low vaccuum at the FPR? Soooo, im going to call Autozone and see what they say about the part. I just bought it yesterday, should i fess up and tell them it was likely my fault from improper installation or lie? x.x i know honesty is the best policy, but i'm not rich.

Problem now seems to only be the FPR once again, but everything else is A-OK!

jazzdadss

Glad to hear it has straightened up!

Man up and go buy another. We all make mistakes, A real man will admit it

SparksAj

t10 torx screw is stripped and can't remove the faulty one. Autozone has a remover that i'll be picking on my way to work that supposedly will work(unless someone else has a way that should work to remove it? i tried the rubberband already to no avail).

I'll remove it tonight, bring the part in tomorrow morning, and finally have my own working car again.
Autozone guy hasn't seen that part but says to just bring it in and they'll swap it out. I'll man up when i have money(or student loans come in)

SparksAj

Got the new part, got the old screw out. Put the new part in, and like magic....there is a leak somewhere on the fpr. I'm thinking its not sealed all the way, either by screws not being in tight enough(which i'm sure they're as tight as possible and will otherwise strip), or the washer that's underneath the diaphragm was put on wrong(its been so long i unfortunately can't remember which way it came off originally). Below are pictures of the 2 ways to put it. if you notice, there is a lip on the black ring.
Currently its facing down on the car and i think thats why its leaking(the outer rim of the gasket is not actually touching the fuel rail not allowing the seal to be complete), but when its face up, it could cut into the diaphragm i think. Would anyone know the correct way? This part is pretty much ignored in every sort of video anywhere, and most cars don't actually use this FPR

jazzdadss

As you can see from this pic, in this order.
Diaphragm
cap
ring
screws

The ring is on top to avoid warping the cap.

jazzdadss

SparksAj

Fixed this morning. I'm an idiot. Seafoamed the car again to get rid of residual fuel remnants from when I drove it and it wasn't all fixed yet. Idk if it's because I haven't been behind the wheel in five days, but I swear it's stronger than ever before. By alot. Can't wait to see the mpg.
Thank you everyone so much for all your help with this issue. I clearly couldn't have done it without you and I learned a ton. looking forward to learning more and eventually helping ��