billybob6110

im rolling over to the build thread from the original thread. thanks to everyone who had input and helped me pick a cam. im picking up the motor today, had it bored 0.030 over, cam bearings installed, freeze plugs installed, old pistons pressed off and new pressed on. the motors pretty much brand new besides the heads (210cc procomp heads) and the crank. crank looked fine so no need to purchase or have other machined. new items i purchased are:
-268xe comp cam
-cloyes double roller timing chain
-flat top pistons (hypereutectic)
-melling high volume oil pump
-and misc felpro gasket kit
-gilmer drive pulley system.
The questions i have for the build are:
-do i need to purchase a deeper oil pan rather then keep the stock pan with high volume oil pump?
-what are the recommened clearances for the heads to pistons and the connecting rod bolt to block?
ill keep the thread going as i build and might even throw up some pics.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

No. But, be prepared for a bunch of people telling you you don't need a HV pump.

For a XE268, it isn't likely that PTV clearance will be a problem.
Unless you're doing a stroker, you shouldn't have to worry about connecting rod bolt to block clearances.

If you're going to throw up, you'll have to clean up after yourself...

billybob6110

hahah ya I will. ok got the crank and cam installed. I forgot to press the connecting rod bolts in so ill do that at work tomorrow. question is should I degree the cam or leave it how it cam from factory? with my mild build I don't believe I need to but thought id ask. also when rotaing the crank theres a little bit of "resistance" at first to try and rotate it, is that normal woth new bearings? I used a lot of the assembly lube so I wouldn't seize em up.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Some will say always degree the cam, others will say not necessary with a "mild" build. It can't hurt to do it, though.

Static friction > running friction, so that may be all you're noticing. The "sticky" assembly lubes will probably magnify the effect. As long as it isn't dependent upon the starting position, you're probably okay.

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

^THAT's the key requirement!^

midias

That cam with those heads are a bad combo. You may be able to work it with 1.6 rockers.

billybob6110

my crank for the piston has been under sized does that mean they would do the main bearings to? im wondering if thats why its frictioning up alot. i put the standard 0.030 ones in.

1gary

Abit confusing your post,but if your saying the crank was turned,the bearings is oversized to the amount the crank was turned.
Tolerances of the main/rod bearings along with rings determine the resistance.

billybob6110

the crank had been turned by previous owner to 0.040. would the main bearings also have been turned to the 0.040? i have 0.030 bearings on the mains now makes me wonder if i have to small of bearings

midias

Did you measure using plastigauge?

89fast5oh

That is pretty deep to cut the crank, well at least by Ford standards. When I did my 351W the machine shop recommended finding a new crank because it was already cut .010 under.

Also if you are pressing in new connecting rod bolts, are you having the large ends re-sized?

billybob6110

im gna measure today. look at old bearings also to see the sizes stamped on them

billybob6110

measured the crank bearing tolerance and I got a little over 2 thousands. is that efficient enough? and I have around 6-7 crankshaft freeplay.

1gary

billybob6110

ignore all the bearing b.s. that was posted. i have measured the tolerences and there in spec.

midias

Sweet now lets talk about those heads with that cam.

billybob6110

yes heads are next on my list. where can i get cheap replacement heads to work with this cam?
also the crank is still hard to rotate. i use the crank tool and it takes some effort to spin at first, but spins freely after. should i change the style lube i used?

midias

What are your goals / budget?

billybob6110

12s im not sure on budget yet, im kinda stuck with crank issue now but heads are next

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Your setup will run fine. Procomps arent great but as discussed in previous thread, its plenty for 12's

billybob6110

midias

Yup but if he has not bought the cam yet he should consider something with a little more lift or at least get 1.6RRs

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

All good points. 1.6's could help

billybob6110

ok got a huge problem. my crank keeps seizing up as soon as I tighten down my rear thrust bearing. how do I fix that? the cap seems to sit slightly higher on one side. as soon as I tap it into place it gets hard to turn. sas soon as I tighten it it seizes up. any help please?

89fast5oh

Obviously not....

billybob6110

theres a dowel pin by the rear main cap. can I remove that? when trying to install the cap it doesn't sit flush. tap with hammer and makes rotation tight. put bolts in and torque. forget turning it.

89fast5oh

Do you have the proper bearings and do you have the proper clearances? You said yourself you don't know. So stop guessing, get a micrometer and measure the crank.

billybob6110

i have a newer block that im putting all the stuff into. i took all the bearings out of the old block, looked at the size 0.030 and bought the same size for the new block. isnt that what i am supposed to do? i was told thats how to do it, but then again look where im at now. im going to see what the clearance i have and go from there. the new block didnt have the crank with it so the crank im using is out of the old block.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Something ain't right ... It only took about 10-15ft lbs on torque wrench to turn the crank over with allll 8 Pistons cam and timing set installed and
Everything torqued to spec

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

No you need to know what the machine shop did for main machining and was the crank cleaned up/turned? Then need to measure clearances of a bearing set and the crank journal. The old block has or could have a completely different machined surface and require different bearings

Atleast use some plasti gauge to get a rough idea

billybob6110

i didnt have anything done to the crank, left it as it was. surface was smooth and no knicks or dings. im going to measure the crank journals after work, what would (in the measuring number) tell me what size bearings i need. i can also slightly feel the crank rubbing on the rear bearing, and when i tap the cap on crank gets harder to spin when i tighten the main it dont spin at all. i only have the crank installed at this point

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

That's not good ... U know to torque and let set for few min and tap with small hammer then loosen then retorque then do it all over again about 7 times right ? I could spin my crank with one finger easily after all mains were torqued to spec

Edit: u need a set of micrometers and snap gauges ...I believe clearances for mains are around .001-.0015 end play around .003 rods .002-.0025

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

OK - I've never heard of tapping and loosening/re-torque 7 times, rubbing chicken bones together, dancing naked around burning tires or what-not….not saying its not done by someone…

Just my opinion, and please don't take this as a bashing….when I first rebuilt my old Dodge 318 decades ago, one of the first things I bought for the rebuild was a book called "How to rebuild your small block Dodge".

That book was the most valuable tool I had during the entire rebuild…I still have it! It not only gave me every single spec I needed, it told me how to check clearances, how to properly use Plasti-gage (yes, it can be used wrong)…things to look out for, tips and tricks etc…with pictures (I needed them)…for literally EVERY aspect of the entire build….even what to ask for at the machine shop.

My point is, you don't want to guess on crank and rod bearing clearances…it's the heart of that engine you're sticking all those bucks into. If not assembled properly, that engine might last all of 2 minutes after it's first started. If you don't have a rebuild guide - get one!! And I'm taking something more informative than the small rebuild section in a Haynes manual BTW…

Only trust what you measure yourself…you're dealing with an unknown block. Sounds like you're pinching the bearing. Time to measure all the crank and rod journals and bearing bores to ensure they're within spec…assume NOTHING and take your time!!

billybob6110

thank you for sharing about the rebuild expereience u had. im going to look for a small block rebuild book and take my time. its my first engine build, so if questions and answers from me sound off the wall, its because im learning and listening. i just dont understand why the dowel pin makes bearing sit funny, makes me think that it is pinching bearing from that

89fast5oh

Most cranks are turned .010/.010. If you have .030 bearing but the crank wasn't turned down that far, then when you tighten down the main caps it would be like putting a vice on the main journals.

What year is the block and what year is the different crank you have?

billybob6110

there both early 69-80 small blocks. the old block was a 2 bolt and the new block is a four bolt main

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for not taking it the wrong way, and you're welcome!

Even though I was rebuilding a Dodge at the time, I learned A LOT of things that applied to all other brands of engines. Well worth the 20 bucks I spent on the book.

The rear bearing cap should go on flush on both sides. The dowel needs to be there to keep it perfectly aligned. If it's not, you're pinching the bearing so DON'T tighten it down whatsoever till you figure out what's going on…you might end up distorting the bearing cap if you do!

billybob6110

im gonna take everything apart and plastigauge it all. ill post results tonight and hopefully it will help answer my quest and issue

billybob6110

ok guys heres my measurement help me out haha
ALL the bearings read on the .002in on the plastigauge INCLUDING the rear cap.
Journals on the crank:
5=2.43
4=2.41
3=2.42
2=2.42
1=2.43
now that damn rear cap doesn't sit like it should onto the block. theres a small but noticeable gap on one side. I think something may be up with the cap. causing the bearing to pinch. any ideas? lead me to the light!

1gary

And the end play is what?.

billybob6110

8 thousands

billybob6110

with measurements of crank is the bearings the right size?

89fast5oh

How could you plastigauge the rear cap if it doesn't sit flush? Was there a gap between the block and cap after you torqued it down?

Show us some pictures.

billybob6110

i will go flush once you tap it with a small hammer. doing that makes the crank tight.then if i torque it it wont spin.

billybob6110

ok ook out crank bearings and tried setting the cap in place and the cap alone doesn't rest flat!! do I need to sand some of the side of the cap to make it fit or do I gotta find a new one?

midias

NEW
You should also look into how it got twisted.

billybob6110

im gog to take it to the machine shop, he wants to take a look at it. he thinks its a line bore issue as the main caps weren't machine for the crank. old motor had crank in it, new one didn't only had the caps

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Sounds more like that they were the wrong caps for the block. If so, you'll need the thing align bored. If these guys sold you the block, it should be on them IMO....never heard of machining caps for the crank...

billybob6110

UPDATE: took the crank and motor back to the machine shop. turns out the wrong caps were installed on to my block. he got new caps and alignbored the motor for free for the mix up. awesome!!!. got everything to put motor back, got cam bearings in, freezeplugs, crank and bearings set tolerance by shop. now to install the cam and pistons and prep for a nice paint job then final assembly. one question is how do i measure deck height with pistons in?