scoflaw

iTrader: (2)

Built this 383 thinking this was going to be enough around town giddy up, but....
10.2-1 cr nice tight quench
dart shp 180 cc heads
cc 502 cam
hooker 2055's 3" system
Ported stock base with ported slp runners
58 tb
Factory air pipe setup with K&N
Would a first setup wake this up, or are my air pipe and exhaust too small? Looking for max output off the line. Stoplight to stoplight driving.

FRMULA88

transmission:
If you have a 700R4 the stock torque converter is NG. you need a looser one (higher stall speed)

Rear end gearing? 3.73s for a street / strip car with 26" tall tires.
4.10 with 28" tall tires.


3" exhaust, dual or single collector pipe ? Dual 3 is fine... if single pipe it should be 3.5 min. or 4 in.
check out mufflex exhaust 3rd gen kits..


Good luck.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Well how are you judging this? Did you have it on a dyno or a dragstrip and produce low numbers? The bottle neck is probably the stock base right now. With a 218/224 cam you should look into a good deal on a used aftermarket piece or just get a single plane/HSR system for the same or not much more $. I ran a stock base that I had ported out and siamesed to the max with an LT4 "Hot Cam" and it was still a horrible mismatch. With all the tuning it was still falling flat on it's face at 4K RPM. Think about changing the exhaust and gears after the engine is at it's potential.

In a different thought, you said you were looking for max output off the line. When the HSR first came out one of the magazines did a write up and found that even though the HSR was making less power down low it was faster off the line.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Found it!

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...hird_gen_iroc/

scoflaw

iTrader: (2)

Should have mentioned that I get my kicks when I get this car sideways with the tires burning around town. The baldys that were on there were giving me great pleasure until they were getting dangerous. A new set of skins anchored this car so much it took the fun right out of it.

Looking to get some of that tire shredding traction loss back. Not looking for anything the HSR has to offer, but thanks for the read

Back to my original question. Would the FIRST setup give me a $1000 worth of what I'm looking for? This is also my get out of town car, so the 3:23's suit me fine

JaBoT

Did you have a custom chip made for the setup or is it a stock chip?

scoflaw

iTrader: (2)

Custom, car runs good just looking for more

JaBoT

Something might be a little off somewhere. Even though the tpi setup isn't going to rev or make much hp up top it should be making killer torque down low with your engine setup. Since all you want is to break the tires loose to slide the car around it should be doing it with no problem at all.
You can try bumping up the timing like the previous article that was posted did and see if that helps without knocking up top. It's not uncommon for a balancer to be off a few degrees on it's marks.

scoflaw

iTrader: (2)

Balancer was degreed when the motor was assembled. How setting initial timing going to effect a computer controlled timing map?

JaBoT

It will just add whatever you add, so if you go from 6 to 8 at base. It will add 2 degrees everywhere. Don't necessarily get caught in in the actual timing number, just give the engine what it wants. Basically turn it up till it knocks then go back a couple degrees.
You can also try playing with fuel pressure, but without going to the track or use a wideband it will be near impossible to get it right.

btw where are you located?

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I agree mostly with what you are saying but without access to a laptop with tunerPro and a cable he most likely will not know if it is knocking. The knock sensors on these cars can pick up knock way before we can hear/feel it. Probably best to get ahold of one of the members on here that routinely burn chips and have them send you one of their recommended .bins I know of some of them if you want to PM me.

JaBoT

yea true, you would have to unplug the knock sensor first.
Getting a custom chip burned using datalogging is the best way to go. Just putting in a chip someone mailed to you usually isn't going to work to well.

Also I would double check tdc on the balancer with a piston stop. For every 10 people who tell me its right and insist that it's on the money. 5 of them are not!

scoflaw

iTrader: (2)

Ran your idea by the tuner. Said we already have tried more timing.
Live near Boston
Thinking that ported stock base might be killin power on the 383

1gary

Took me two seconds.Read through this and the bottom line is ya got nothing.A butt dyno even one such as mine with 40 yrs or more drag racing and ya want to know how I do it??. Set a baseline so I KNOW where I am at and then tune the car from there.Everything I skimmed over the read from you is just mere speculation.AND guys falling over each other to tell you how to do what??. You yourself don't have a clue where your starting from.



Yeah-just one more thing.Get a grip on that and then and only then we can give you productive advise.

scoflaw

iTrader: (2)

Maybe I forgot to mention the tune was done on a dyno

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

You have bad attitude. And I already asked what he was basing it off of. Come back after you have taken your crabby pants off.

1gary

Naaa,just a reality check.

scoflaw

iTrader: (2)

Crabby, grumpy, it's what happens when you get old, way of life. Ask me how I know.

Let me streamline this question. Will a First intake help me out?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Real headers will make a good difference. A First will give more power over stock base. Much more? Hard to say. That 383 should have plenty of power to spin tire unless its on a drag radial. Higher stall helps too.

scoflaw

iTrader: (2)

Do all long tubes have ground clearance issues? Not giving up my AC either.
Not talking about spinning from a stop, ya does that fine . Looking to break them loose at about 20. Maybe just used to BB power. Long tubes to true duel?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

LT's clear finebut its just the y pipe or duals part that gets you because you need to run pipes near or around the trans cross member subframes

A better designed shorty with a real 3" collector will be light years ahead of hooker 2055

I will need to double check but TPiS had dyno test results of ported stock base vs their big mouth in a stock l98. I beleive the big mouth base made an additional 10-15 hp over ported stocker on a stock l98. On your 383 with better exhaust, a first will make a good bit more over stock

scoflaw

iTrader: (2)

Agree, the way the 2055's get necked down to connect the Y pipe is a joke. Maybe I can modify that joint to keep it at 3"

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The same as it affects any other timing map derived from any other method.

"Final" timing = static + "map"

Go try it. Don't outsmart yourself over a bunch of "computer".

Even if it's not "right", it's A TUNING TOOL to tell you what you DO need to do to your chip to GET IT RIGHT. I.e. You make a change, note the results (better here, worse there, a little of this a little of that etc.), and adjust the tune accordingly. Like, HOW THE HELL are you supposed to be able to tell your "tuner" what the tune NEEDS if you don't FIND OUT first?

Go do that, feed your "tuner" the info, and repeat until ANY FURTHER changes makes it WORSE EVERYWHERE.

Do the same thing with fuel pressure, and get the same kind of info. Bump it up/down a little, and note what gets better, what gets worse, and what other changes happen. If, let's say, you bump it up, and it gets better at WOT but idles worse, then your "tune" needs to add fuel at WOT and pull fuel out at idle.

C'mon man, this stuff is JUST NOT THAT HARD.

Slavishly worshipping some "spec" "number" is NOT how you get your car to work better. Use your brain and figure out how to gather information instead of bowing down in front of a "spec", and salaaming and kaotaoing about "computer".

Then, grow a pair and learn how to do the "tuning" YOURSELF, like any self-respecting hot-rodder would do.

scoflaw

iTrader: (2)

Your a day late to the party. Layin on the sofa maybe. Did you read the entire thread?

Repeat, tune was done on the DYNO,

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

What does the tune care about "DYNO"? What difference does that make?

What happened when you experimented with it as I suggested? Or are you going to worship at this "dyno" altar too, instead of USING YOUR BRAIN to get your car to run better?

cuisinartvette

Tune first that will help tons as said a bunch

Get rid of that TPI even heavily ported its strangling the 383. People give that convoluted intake too much credit.

scoflaw

iTrader: (2)

[quote=sofakingdom;5654540]What does the tune care about "DYNO"? What difference does that make?

scoflaw

iTrader: (2)

Are you serious? How else are you going to tell if your adjustments are working.

Agree with the TPI statement. All my other fast cars have carbs. Never had TPI thought I'd give it a try

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Track tuning is best as it is real conditions, aero and g forces, etc but variances in run to run make it harder to diagnose. Gotta run a few times with each change to see how it works out. Mph signifies power, et early in the run may signify power under the curve.

1gary

And don't discount what these guys and I am saying.Hell you asked for help and now your saying no your wrong.Gezzz.

Look,383's love the exhaust side in cam timing and in the actually exhaust.You lean on that and will find excellent results.

scoflaw

iTrader: (2)

I'm not saying anybodys wrong, just saying this was tuned on the dyno and the dyno guy says don't waste my time or your money on a retune. He says tpi sucks as well for making power. Make some changes and bring it back.

So my original question was basicly what is corking things up here. Looking for directions to pursue. Enough talk about my present tune. And thanks for the tip on the exhaust, that's helpful info.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

You could DRIVE the car...

Are you really serious that you worship this whole "dyno" thing SO HARDCORE that you're not even willing to TRY "FREE" improvements you can make? Are you convinced that the car spent SO MUCH time on that dyno, and got exercised through EVERY POSSIBLE operating condition, that EVERY SINGLE adjustment is PERFECT? You gotta be kidding.

If you don't TUNE your car, you will NEVER have the VAGUEST CLUE what it needs. Every other thing you do will simply be a bunch of shots in the dark.

But hey, it's YOUR car; if you don't want to put at least a bare minimum of EFFORT and THOUGHT into making what you ALREADY HAVE work the best it can, then I guess you don't really care how it runs, after all. Which isn't really bothering any of the rest of us any.

One thing I can tell you FOR SURE though, is that the "advice" about 4.10 gears is DEAD WRONG. You've got the single worst intake ever built for higher-RPM power, with heads that are too small on a short block that's too big. Basically a recipe for a low-RPM "grunt" motor. With 4.10 gears, the car probably won't even be able to go any faster than 75 mph; might not even make that.

I also don't think that your exhaust is THE cause of The Problem you report. While there might be "room for improvement" there, you're not going to "uncork" much of anything at LOW RPMs (your initial complaint) by dinking with it.

Keeps coming back around to TUNING.

scoflaw

iTrader: (2)

Let me get this straght, the butt dyno with me as the tuner is better than a real dyno run by a pro tuner who does nothing but tunes all day every day.

Very interesting theory along with the crazy man rant. Dude switch up on your meds, the ones your on aren't working.

A thank you very much to the others that responded

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Yes.

GET THAT STRAIGHT.

How much you wanna bet that your "dyno tune" consisted of him sticking it on there, doing a handful of pulls at WOT, tweeking a thing or 2 to get the highest number, and calling it good? Like just about everybody else's?

Eh?? Am I right, OR WHAT??

He DID NOT do what those of us who do this for ourselves in order to get PERFECT results might do. This would include idle from cold startup to full hot; vacuum "crowds" (where you run the engine at a constant vacuum and let it accelerate over a full range of RPM, say just off-idle to cruise) at each 1" step of vacuum, and tune part-throttle for quickest acceleration at each vacuum level; tuning steady-state cruise mixture & timing for the best combo of gas mileage, crisp throttle response, engine running, temp, and so on; heavy no-acceleration loading at low RPMs (think, simulating going up a steep hill, slowly) and tuning low-RPM mixture & timing for that condition; and on and on and on and on.

If you REALLY think that an hour and a half on a dyno INCLUDING tie-down and setup time, with about 3 - 5 WOT pulls, is "tuning", then you DESERVE to complain about your car not running to its full potential.

Since you're going to stay firmly focused on all of this voodoo and black magic worship thing about "dyno", there's nothing any of the rest of us out here can do for you, until you step out of your superstition and take your fate into your own hands. Enjoy your car being a disappointment in the meantime. You're welcome.

1gary

WARNING YOU NOT GOING TO LIKE MY POST!!!.

A tune starts with a build sheet/plan for matched parts.Cam/compression compatibility is one example.SCR/DCR's taken into account for another.

We all have been doing our level best to do a save after the fact.And all too often it is a eleven hour save.

Now with me your dealing with a guy who actually worked at a Chevy engine plant dyno rm.

I will tell you this,the market in services of dyno rm-chassis dyno's are guys who are more than willing to give expected results to the owner of the vehicle/engine being tested.No one and I repeat no one polices those results.Lucky for you you found a guy that is on the low side,but on the other hand wants to fault a TPI only. Kind of a generalization never pursuing it to maximize the fuel system.

Now I promise you this.You can and should be able with a TPI get a strong bottom end and mid.If you doubt it................stop reading this now.

1gary

But I do promise you this.....................come back with any lip to me or any other poster and I'm out,done like dinner,forget you quick.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I honestly dont feel its a bad combo. Just needs more exhaust and intake to support the heads. Dart shp 180's arent that small, i have seen one head porter cc them at 195cc out the box. That may be an oddball case but maybe its under advertised. Flow is good enough for mid 400's hp with good cam. Porting, the heads clean up very well.
502 cam is good for a 383 spinning to 5500. Thats within usable rpm band with First Tpi or siamesed tpi. Just need to reallly open up the base and runners to flow. Its a long tube and that requires area to reduce flow losses.

Also you may be making decent power but have good suspension and tire to prevent it from spinning at lower mph rolls. Thats a goooood thing, trust me. No traction to me is a pita. If you want more spin try a harder compound all season or something.

My car has hooked 550+ whp from lower roll speeds on street tires, its all in the power curve and how well car works to get it to the ground.

1gary

For a number of good reasons I know it's bad form to revile PM's sent to you let alone this post being off topic.But I think the priority to show what kind of O/P this guy is to the members of this forum out wt's good form. Received this PM today:


Junior Member

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 57

Classifieds Rating: (0)


Idle threat.
Hey **** head, growin beer ***** after the games. aren't you a little too old to be playin the internet tough guy. Act your age. Dish it and can't take it?

Don't post on my threads, your info is next to useless after your pal "psycho rambler boy"

Don't bother responding with any more BS.If you want my phone # OK want to hear that whiney little voice of yours

1gary

For the last two yrs I have disagreed with members on this forum.That is the normal course of business.And some of that might have resulted in a PM sent back and forth between who I disagreed with.But never anything close to this.So you guys that have gotten to know me,know I don't make a habit of posting copied PM's.That I have never done that before or it being very unlikely I ever would in the future.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

These guys are right. A dyno isn't simualting your everyday driving. You want low end power but you think a dyno tune is the best way to go? That makes no sense, It was tuned to make the most power at WOT, because thats how you run the car on the dyno. Guess what happens when you squeeze out every once of high RPM horsepower that you can? YOU LOSE LOW END POWER.

How much power did this actually make on the dyno?

scoflaw

iTrader: (2)

You call me out, for who knows what reason, and don't expect me to respond?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately Gary, I have to deal with this sort of thing ALOT.....

"These" people don't want to be TOLD LIKE IT IS. They come in here with some kind of pre-conceived fantasy about how they WISH thing were (like this n00b here genuflecting to the priests at The Temple Of Dyno) and are only looking for everyone else to go along with whatever half-baked notions they have concocted, like this one who thinks that just because somebody ran the car on a dyno that true perfection has already been achieved, or that all the wrong parts they have in whatever mismatched combo they have are going to somehow "compensate" for each other, or that they're going to somehow rewrite the laws of physics, and then get their panties all up in a wad when the rest of us don't worship their fantasy along with them. I've got used to it now, I just sort of keep a mental list of people who CAN'T be helped, because they WON'T help themselves, and avoid them, even when I COULD be of service to them if I so chose... like this one.

This one here is amusing, and all too typical: he comes in here complaining about how his car is running, but then tries to tell us that it's running PERFECT because {gasp} it's been on a dyno {oooooh} {aaaaaaaah} {salaaaaaam} {praise be} and therefore he is so superstitious about "dyno" that he won't even touch the tune. Lightning will come down from the divine and strike him dead on the spot if he so much as CONSIDERS it. Fine... let him wallow in it. He can just FREAKING SUFFER in his ignorance for all I care.

Then I'm the jerk because I'm logical and rational and {HORROR AND BLASPHEMY} truthful, not superstitious like they are. Really!! Just ask em.

1gary

The dialog on this thread and me is over.