joshh44

im eather going to build a 383 or a 454.
i just want to know what is your hp guess for the 383 stroker engine im building. i have no idea. im hoping 500hp or more. but i may be wrong.

here is the parts im putting on. im not to sure about the combo im using tho.
so ill post em up anyways and let me know and if you got any susgestions.
------------------

1977 block with high 010 nickle content.

383 kit with forged crankshaft and 6" forged H-beam rods and flat top pistions with valve reliefs, kit comes with gaskets and pistion rings and all that sort of things.

assembled Aluminum heads/specs are
215cc Intake runners
1.550'' Springs - .680'' Maximum lift
64cc CNC machined combustion chambers with angle plug design
10° locks, Chrome Moly Steel retainers and bronze guides
2.100'' Intake and 1.600'' exhaust stainless steel valves
7/16'' Rocker studs and 5/16'' guide plates

im thinking of going with 1.5 roller rockers. but i been hearing 1.6 are better.


Intake is a victor jr style intake.

800 CFM holly carb.

Comp Cams 'Drag Race' Mechanical Roller Camshaft, specs are.
252° Intake / 258° Exhaust @ .050
.630'' Intake / .630'' Exhaust with 1.5 rockers

full MSD Ignition.

----------------------------------------

is there anything else im leaving out??
i just want the HP guess range. mine is about 500hp.

also another question. are those heads to big for the engine?
i hear 383 like to breath so i found some big heads that would help it breath but is it to much? i heard bigger is better. so thats why i whent with thos ones. there not to bad in price eather.
also im not good with Cam and Cly head combo. i want to get the most power out of the engine as i can with out adding a power added.

any suggestions? to make the 500hp mark or more?
oh im building a strickly drag car with very little street use. maybe one every weekend or so during the summer months.

joshh44

totally forgot about exhaust haha.
i was thinking longtube headers with 3" exhaust with maybe 40 or 50 series flowmaster mufflers. no cat. and being dumped just before the rear axle.
would 3" exhaust enough or would i need to go bigger?

formula_novice

iTrader: (1)

What rear-gear ratio are you going to use? What stall?

I hope you are planning on getting a roller-conversion kit... otherwise you can't run a roller cam in a non-roller block.

joshh44

yes ill be doing the conversion.
and also i was thinking eather a 2500 stall or 3000. and the gears i would like 3.75 or 4.11. im leaning more toweards the 4.11 gears. i was going to get slicks. i think they are 28" tall

SteelTownMadDog

iTrader: (2)

Not all heads are created the same so something more specific would help, but in general you should be able to get your 500HP with that setup if well tuned.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

If you're running that T5 you wont need a stall. Maybe I missed the auto tranny part somewhere.

Go with a set of Dart Pro 1 Aluminum heads. I've seen CHP make over 500hp many times with them.

AFR's are also a good choice.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

I can't find the article, but they rigged up a 530 hp pump gas friendly 383. Dart Pro 1's and a mechanical roller cam with 294/302 duration and .543/.561 lift.

I'll try to hunt it down.

5678TA

you better make 500hp with that setup.. dont forget to throw some compression at it or the cam will be useless down low..i'd say minimum 10.5:1.. but more like 11:1.. that will get you over 525

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Yea, and 2500-3000RPM stall is FAR too low. Look at 4000RPM or probably higher. 252/258 @.050"? Yea. And yea, 11:1 compression.
4.11's for sure.

cali92RS

I like how the first response to the question "How much HP am I going to make?" is "What stall and what rear-gear ratio are you using"?

Why not ask him what shocks he is using?

joshh44

lol im looking for HP for the engine not a time slip at the drag lol.
and shocks i will be using if anyone wants to know are some good stiff ones :P
not to sure what type. im still part shopping.

codename. if you can find that artical that would be wounderful
and yes ill be running that T-5 like it never ran before lol.
im been having my eye on a TH400 that i found for about $700 which i thought was a good deal.

to get the compressoion up. would i have to go with Dome pistions??
im not really to sure how to raise compression.

what about the rockers?? go 1.6 or 1.5??? i heard somepeople change em up and have 1.6 on intake and 1.5 on exhaust. which is better?


ill look for a higher stall converter and the prices.
is there anyway i can shave down my engine parts so i can get about 500 or more hp and save money? i prived everything out and it should be about a $5500 to $6500 to complete the build. i would like to have some money left over so i can get the TH400. im gunna start this project the start of 2008 January 1st! after the christmas debt is payed off. engine is all ready top for shop. ill make a new thread jan 1st with my project build if anyone is interested. it will be very photo friendy of my engine :P

formula_novice

iTrader: (1)

I was trying to get some further info on his application so I could make an educated guess as well as suggest possible upgrades.

Perhaps if you would think a little outside the box, you would find it more beneficial to ask questions and learn rather than post a message to criticize others.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ine/index.html

That's the Chevy High Performance build I was talking about.

530 hp 383.

car_fixer

you should be close to what you are looking for, but even if it is a little short it should still be pretty powerful, but for 500 hp you could use a good cast crank, and what kind of heads were those you mentioned? and you said pump gas? if so keep the compression under 11.0 to 1 , also what rpm range do you want, if you want to spin it really high that puts more stress on things. you may want to inquire about a custom ground cam insted of an off the shelf unit it may be cheeper even, and then can be tailored to what you would like to do, however you must decide about the trans first, as they will all need to know that.

joshh44

hey thanks for the artical! ill check it out
and the heads im going for are from jegs.
there $679.99each asembled aluminum head. so about $1600 or $1700 for both including taxes and shipping.
there 215intake runners.
2.10 intake.
64cc comustion chamber.
and max lift is .680"

i thought costum cams were expensive. the cam i found was $308. which i thought was friggin expensive in it self.
if i can get a custom cam for cheaper. man i would do that.
im not going to go extreme RPM. i say max would be at least 6000rmps. i was going to put a rev limiter on it. maybe 5500rpm max. nothing insanly crazy. like 7000 or 8000.
ill probably keep it at the end of the power band of the engine.

yeah the tranny im going to be using would be my stock T-5. it pushing alot of kms on there. its at 275,000 kms right now. so it will not last long.
i also would have to buy a clutch and stuff and then my tranny would eventryally die really fast. then replace it. so why waste money on a new clutch when im gunna stick a th350 or th400 in there.. i may just fork up the extra $1000 for the TH 400 tranny. so lets change my tranny from a T-5 to TH400 tranny. with a 3500 stall. i like having alot of low to mid RPM tq. the rush of acceleration!! my favorite! thats my drug hehe. im addicted to acceleration in a camaro.

car_fixer

given that info, i would check into a custom cam, also you might look around at some of the better i beam rods, keeping the rpm lower like that you might do ok with them. I got a custom cam from reed cams and it was only a little more, however i got a 4 and 7 swap that is more expensive like 75 bucks i think. this is the website, the e mail link will take a few days, but if you call it might be quicker. also most out of the box cams work in higher rpm ranges. http://www.reedcams.com/
they had my cam done in 2 days i think, and alot easier to talk to than crane or comp. I would not worry about the big hp number you want torque, thats what you feel that gives that rush, i have a 383 also, but it isnt a street car, its kinda wimpey, with a 225 shot of nitrous it puts out about 900 hp,
close to 600 without. as far as the trans...if you have no traction it will be ok lol, but really a good turbo 350 would work fine, you wont need the 400 hell i really dont know why the 350 i have still works, I have a car that hooks like crazy, lots of hp a transbrake and 7500 rpm it works great, i think there are a few pics and videos of it around but it is on streetfire, search for 87 camaro, and its usally around the top left, silver dollar 10/27 i have some others too

joshh44

hey ill look up that car on streetfire sometime.
well im eventryally making an all out drag car thats going to see very minimal street use. ones every weekend or so. just to have alittle fun driving around town. crusein to see my good friends and have a good convo to talk about.

my goal is to eventrually make 11s or 10s with my car.
i just thought a TH400 would work just fine for the price.
i know upgrading the suspension and lighten up the car would help alot. also having good gearing and other parts like that.

im not to sure about the exhaust.
i would like to run long tube headers but im not to sure what size to get. the tube width of the headers., and also what size of exhaust system to use. i was going to do it all my self anyways. saves me some money. i know alot of drag people just run open headers but thos are for the high output engines i would image. if i can have a 10 second car. i would be most thrilled.
i would like to eventrually put a supercharger on there. thats why i whent with the forged crankshaft and the forged H-beam rods. ill eventrually get dished forged pistions and new cam for that. but thats not anytime soon tho. years to come. or so i say haha.

but pistion wise. what do i need for pistions?
would that hypereticric or however you spell that weird word pistions be fine?? and how do you raise compression?

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

first, i want to say your crazy dude.
now to my observation, take it or leave it.

for that price on heads i would definitely look at afr over anything jegs has to offer, the new 210's are very nice and the 227's are even better if you want maximum flow since your building a drag car, just make sure to get the appropriate valvetrain for them. even the afr 210's will outflow your 215's you picked out from jegs.

the lift mentioned on those springs maxes out at .680, your cam you selected with 1.6 rockers would put your valve lift to .672. you sure you want to stress your valve springs that close to its maximum? .008 thousands of an inch?
now your cam, as I quoted below, you said you dont want to go over 6000rpm? that cam, to me, is screaming for a 4000-7000ish rpm range. for a drag car, you dont need low or midrange power, thats where your 4000stall comes into play.

Don't think about upgrading the clutch to anything expensive because one pass on a strong motor like that will grenade that internally stock transmission.
pistons: depending on the cc of your pistons and your heads are the biggest factor in compression ratio.

some real flat, flat top pistons should get you around high 10:1 compression. just depends on the cc's

Look at my signature below, my combo is alot milder then yours as far as cam goes, and im fuel injected with a blower, my engine is not running yet but, dyno'd i expect 600ish horsepower out of it, and when I get the proper drivetrain setup on my car, I expect I will run tens, and this is not a all out drag car. just food for though.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

You've got a lot to learn if you're wondering things like this. And why would you want to run open headers? How are you going to drive it on the street? If you're building a "track" car, build something that's going to go in the single digit range. Otherwise, you should be able to build a perfectly streetable 11 second car. This isn't 1970, where it's tough to make a streetable 500 hp. Personally, I'd drop an LSx motor in there.

And building exhaust is difficult, unless you have access to a lift and good welding skills.

joshh44

i wouldnt drive open headers on the street. way to loud for street use.
i dont really like using engines that have alot of electroincs on there. i like the old school way. thats just my preference.
i dont have problems with exhaust work and getting the car high enough to work under it. thats not a problem. im not having a full exhaust system all the way back to the rear of the car. there going to exit before the rear axle. so its not going to be to difficult.
and what i ment was 10 seconds or faster. i forgot to mention that. sorry about that. the other reason i posted about the 383 engine build was to learn as well. thats why i was giving out sugestions and questions about the parts i chose and if they are good or if they are awaste of money.
i been hearing mixed reviews so far.

if low to mid rpm tq isnt the best for drag racing. what would be a good cam to get what i would like?? i thought it over during work this afternoon. why have low end tq when its barly going to see the streets much anyways?
would still a custom cam still be the best way to go?
ill check for other sets of heads thats would be about or close to it.
ill check out the AFR heads. i dont want to stress the engine till parts are breaking apart in all directions lol

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

You'd be surprised how difficult it is to get things to hang level.

There are no electronics on an LSx engine unless you run them. You can run a carbed LSx and it's no different than a gen I small block, EXCEPT that it's 100 times more efficient and just a better designed engine

car_fixer

ok lets not be too rough on the guy lol. the jegs heads are made by canfield last i heard , and they aret junk, but they arent afr's. does he need 227's i dont really think so. I have afr 220's and i have enough power for 8's and their new heads flow even better, so why run specialized valvetrain stuff? I also agree that an lsx that is carbed is an option, but not cheap, so if he has a decent block and an avg. budget i have to agree that there is some logic to build what you have at the moment. I have hooker super comps headers, 1 3/4 tube dia. and have a 3 inch exhaust with two bullet mufflers ( also has an x in it) it is really tight with a turbo 350 and i think the 400 may be a little larger, so the exhaust may not fit between the trans and frame rail on the right side, where the rail turns twords the trans tunnel. as far as changeing to a s/c later, i doubt that that will work out as planned, by the time that you are ready for that there could be enough wear on the bores to require attention, as on that subject, hypereutectic pistons are quite heavy, and somewhat fragile, as they seem more sensitive to detonation and etc. I know that you said you might drive it on the street but are you willing to run it on race gas? most cams that will produce the power you want will require higher compression to work their best, hey the smell alone would be a conversation piece lol
I built my exhaust (and the rest of most of the stuff on and in the car) using 3" u and j bends from summit (hey i pass them every day going to and from work) and since i put an x in the exhaust the hardest part was making the parts not level lol, the x is under the crossmember / driveshaft loop so its slightly lower than the headers, sounds cool though i heard a video of it from half track and it sounds like a winston-nextel-sprint cup car. if i get bored and build 180 degree headers it will sound even more weird

joshh44

yeah i thought an LSX engine was fuel injected haha. i should have looked up the engine before i posted that haha ahh well.
i was going to take the carpet out and whatever foam instalation stuff they have under there and redo the whole thing with lighter foam stuff just to cover up the bumps and find some fabric from the local fabric store and just glue it on. just to make it look like a everyday car but lighting it up.
i was going to cut some of the floor sheet metal like on the passenger side of the car. that big dip that would be where your feet would go if your a passenger. since im not going to have a passenger very often. i was thinking of cutting that out and making it level with the floor of the car. give it mroe room under the car. i havnt checked under the car to see what i will be changing. i thought it could help with exhaust clearence. but i gotta figure that out. not to sure if im going towards that move yet. but ill figure it out later.
engine topic.
what kind of pistions should i get? like what matrial should they be made of?
well i could get the engine rebored .10 over from the .30 so it will be .40 over and honed for the supercharger with forged dished pistions, tho i heard you can go up to .60 over and still be save but that be pushing it i would think.

i just looked up the AFR heads. are they better then the Jegs?
i just looked up the price for the 227s and the cheapest i found were
$821.00 for a pair but there bare heads. and have standard exhaust ports. 64cc chambers. and angle plug.
or there is race ready heads. spread port exhaust. 65cc chambers. and says its complete with parts. so im guessing that means assmbled. for the for pair its $1591.00. thats for the 227s.

how much is it to get the parts for the bare heads?? if its cheaper then getting them already assembled i would do that.

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

assembled would be cheaper, assuming what they assemble it with is what you want to go with.

5678TA

if you dont want to rev this motor, dont get the 215cc heads, dont get a solid drag race roller cam, etc.. its just gonna start to pull hard then rev limiter..

you actually can run that drag roller cam with over 11:1 on pump.. but no more than 11.5:1.. i'll be running 11.1:1 on pump with a drag solid flat tappet cam very soon, and revving to hopefully about 7k.. like i'm building the motor to be finished within a week.. just finished polishing my heads today.. not a full port job.. but just a cleanup job..

if you want the best heads for your combo, go with the AFR 195 eliminators.. they flow awesome for a small head and cost just a bit more than any other aftermarket head.. CHP used that same shortblock in the article that Codename 47 linked and threw on some afr 195 eliminators and a solid roller to make 615 hp N/A on pumpgas..

joshh44

ill still shop around for some good cly heads. ill finish up reading the artical
well with my 77' engine block. would it jsut be better to go flat tappet cam?

car_fixer

For what you want to do, dont bother with the 227 cc afrs, just try and find headers that arent big bucks, not to mention the rest of the valvetrain you need for them, the best way is to get shaft mount rockers, you can figure nearly a grand on that, or you can get offset rockers and lifters..still expensive. afr 210 or 195 would be fine, however since you want to possibly put the huffer (supercharger) on it later the 210 would be better, for the pistons, mahle pistons are hard to beat for non power adder applications. the afr heads are available from jegs there are several different ones so you could get the part number from afr's website and check the price at jegs. I would reccommend that you go to a local book store and read every book on sbc builds (ok skip to the good parts you dont need to read the whole book to get an idea of what parts they used) there are usually a bunch, and there is one book at least , that just has build parts lists and dyno runs, simple and to the point, that should help you get the idea of how things move around in the rpm band, and also help see if your goals are realistic. I have to say though that some of the parts used in the builds may have been massaged a little between the box and the engine. I hope that helps.

5678TA

some AFR heads


http://www.adperformance.com/index.p...b69dd9878c0ae5

joshh44

thanks for the website. i think thats where i might be getting my stroker get from. not to sure yet.
anyways. i have afew questions about budget and parts choice wise.
i would like to get eather a TH350 or the 400. i heard good stuff about them and a friend down the street is using a TH350 but keeps having to get it rebuild. i think he cheaped out tho so thats why it keeps breaking on him.
anyways. would it be better if i got some really good set of heads and some good fitting headers and tranny. and get cheaper on the intake and carb? and when i have more money in the future. and just upgrade when i have the extra cash? i would like to get the expesnive parts kind of out of the way 1st. i know tranny would be a big one. after the engine and tranny. im gunna look after the rearend. upgraded suspenion would really help aswell. but that could wait alittle later. i want to get the goods done 1st.

would it be wiser to get a cheaper less preformence bolt-on parts like the intake and carb? insted of going forged H-beams. go with casted H-beams or even cast I-beams? have alittle more playing room for the tranny and good set of heads i like the sounds of thos AFR heads. but there more expensive then the jegs ones that I 1st picked out.

joshh44

im just looking up ebay and the ebay stores sell alot of not to bad sets of heads for fairly cheap. but most of them are pro comp heads.
and im kinda skechy about buying parts from Ebay.
what are your guess thoughts about buying stuff from ebay and Pro Comp cyl heads?

car_fixer

bujet is always a problem, i would say the harder it is to get to the better parts you should use, but be realistic. You dont need h beam rods for what you are looking to do, but i wouldnt use stock rods either. (although i did put stock rods and crank in to the 9's lol) the heads are a very big part of the equation, so even with say 355 cubes (.030 over 350) you could make pretty good power. the savings of using a cheeper intake isnt great, if anything i would consider a flat tappet cam to save money, probably like 400 bucks total, then you can still change it later to make more power. you could check www.speedwaymotors.com also they have some resonable stuff one of their premium rotateing kits with say afr 210's would be a pretty respectable deal, then a solid flat tappet to start out with, and you should have pretty decent power, more than enough to figure out what other problems your car has lol

joshh44

with that rotating kit for $745 or so. it comes with a cast crankshaft.
would a cast crankshaft be alright with the power??

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ads/index.html

550 hp at the crank with factory heads. Pretty cool huh. I'd drop in an LSx motor. There's a reason GM isn't putting a Gen I small block into the new Corvettes and Camaros.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

527 rear wheel horsepower. The new LSx motors are down right impressive. Not that there's anything wrong with the Gen I engines, but these new engines just do it way better and cheaper. It's 50 year old technology vs 10 year old technology.

joshh44

thats pretty impressive stuff.
if i had $5000 in my wallet right now id probably get it haha but i dont :P
i would think parts for that engine would be pretty expesnive i would image since its fairly new. im sure it will get more popular in years to come tho.
but pretty cheap for 550hp engine.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Yea, LS motors are dirt cheap and extremely powerful.. What's not to like? It's a wonder why everyone isn't doing it...

Oh right, when reality sets in

They are much more expensive than a traditional SBC, as far as used parts go. They are virtually impossible to find used, and you need a pile of all new tools to work on them, including the much more expensive computer parts to tweak the timing/fueling. The sensors and wiring and everything is ultra expensive in that part. If you're comfortable working with FI and computers, and you intended to buy everything aftermarket anyway, then it's definitely the engine for you.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

Both of the ones I pointed to are running carbs, or do they still require computer stuff?

My buddy bought a running 6.0L iron block for 700 bucks from a junkyard. He's probably got less than 2 grand (I could ask him how much he's actually spent if you want) into the motor following the first build. He's been putting nitrous at it too, the cast internals are good to 150, but I don't think he sprays that much.

I'd agree with you though. Used parts are damn near impossible to find because they are so new. But this guy isn't on a low dollar budget (I don't consider 5500 low budget lol)? He's got 5500 to spend. Otherwise I wouldn't have posted all that!

I was just throwing options out there. As long as he doesn't end up with a 2L VTEC engine I could careless what he goes with. Just take some pictures.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...swap-pics.html

There's here on thirdgen who did an LSx swap, so you can get an idea of what's done and the results.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

oh I know the results are great. Good engine, good tech etc. If you can get away with using a carb and normal distributor, that makes things easy to tune, but you're kinda giving away a lot of the advantages of an LSx motor with it's superior fueling abilities.
And people seem to glaze over how easy (difficult) it is to get an LS motor. I'm fairly sure it'd take me months to find one here, then pay upwards of $3k for a base model truck engine, then start paying big dinero for aftermarket parts. I'm fairly sure an intake manifold to use a carb on those is more $$ than a carbed intake for an SBC (Edelbrock Perf RPM = $180)...

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

I agree with you on all those points. But if you have a big budget why not? I guess 5500 isn't "big" in the world of engines. Well, keep us posted with what you decide!

joshh44

i defentially gave the lsx engine some thought. i think ill stick with the older version of the sbc. most popular engine as well which making parts cheaper and easyer to find. ill probably wait till the lsx engine is more popular then it is right now.

but back to my question that hasnt seem to be answered yet lol
are pro comp cly heads any good?? i found some on ebay that are dirt cheap. some are between $600 to $800 for a pair of assembled aluminum Cly heads.
most of then are 2.02 intake valves. im looking for something bigger then that. there are afew with 2.05 valves and i saw some that are 2.08.