xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Hi, i read quite a few threads about the fuel pump access door, and I plan on doing it. Since I don;t have enough tools to drop the rear end down, which I have done before, I would like to do the access door.
My pump is failing, and I would like to replace it with a TPI pump for the time being. Than once I get the 350 going I would like to go carb. So I would be replacing few fuel pumps, and knowing how boring and long the rear end drop is, I have no regrets for cutting up few lines and some floor.
Now, i just want some help, and if you are here to tell me how stupid I am.. shove it .
I want to know what is the safest way of cutting the fuel lines????
Maybe the picture of the the tool too.

Thanks.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Don't do it. It is faster to take the tank out than it is to properly prep, cut, and metal finish an access door. Lowering the rear is easy and only requires the removal of a few bolts. You just have to let it sag. You don't need any special tools other than a socket set and maybe a few wrenches. I did my first fuel pump install in less than two hours. It isn't that hard but for some reason everyone on TGO thinks it is so much harder.

david roush

iTrader: (1)

It's not a hard job. It's easy............Until you get to the part of taking the fuel tank out.

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Thanks guys. Dropping the rear end was not hard at all, but it did require two people. At least my experience. Now, I am planning to getting this fuel pump fast and easy. And since I am not sure how many times I will be changing it, the access door is something I actually really want to do.

I can drop the tank, but I am thinking about long term here for me.
Thanks.

So what would you say would be the best way to cut those lines???

vic_V8

I didn't use anything but common socket sets.

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Not to be rude or anything, but can anyone answer my question?

kurfbird

iTrader: (24)

Another post used a Hack saw

You can alsao use a tubing cutter.

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Now ya talking, which one would be easier???

Tube cutter sounds pretty safe.

Hmmm..

I'll look into tubing cutters tommorow. Thanks.

Any other ideas???

kurfbird

iTrader: (24)

Problem with tubing cutter

You need to have a 360 degree swing to make the complete cut.

Hacksaw would just need forward and back motion. Get one with fine teeth to cut metal.

Stekman

I used a large drill bit with a depth gauge to start a few holes and a large sheet metal shears (pnuematic) to cut. Looking from the bottom, you can kind of see the direction that the fuel lines go (I'm sure there's pictures on here somewhere, look around for them). I got a cut off wheel and scored the side towards the rear seat and just bent it around until it broke off. I used the piece that I cut out as a template and made a similar panel, 1.5" larger all around that I am going to cover the hole.

Granted that whole thing can get thrown out the window if you don't have air or have access to a shears.

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Can someone post a picture of the hacksaw that you used. I need it cuz I am just not picturing it right.
Thanks.

PhLaXuS

Cut them for what purpose? A fuel access door in the future?...Or are you asking to when dropping the tank how to disconnect? My 305 TBI had three hose clamps (I think) and one high pressure fitting which required somewhere int he range of 14mm wrenches.

You'd need to place a clean, square cut on the line, chamfer the edges VERY cleanly and reflare the lines for the access door idea.

88_Import_Slaye

I wont shove it, but I will tell you that it is very dangerous and will take more time to do vs pulling the tank one more time, putting in a nice new electric fuel pump and being done with it. Pulling the tank has it's dificulties, installing a new pump is easy.

If you are going to cut the access door while the tank in is the car, you are very brave and I hope you live to tell about it. Not saying you are an id1ot, but not everyone has common sense to be safe. If you plan to pull the tank before, then why not do as I said and just put in a new pump and be done with it for ever.

You risk creating a spark and catching something on fire, you risk not being able to seal the lines properly and having leaks and even still you have to get under the car at least once more to work with the lines, or were you just going to get some rubber hose and hose clamps to seal the hard lines back together?

It isnt worth the time or effort, plus you risk altering the way your body works for support.

I just decided one day to rip out my V6 and gut the entire car on a whim, but never would I even give thought to cutting up my body, especially for some unsafe, non time saving task

This is one of those topics that can be compared to 305 vs 350, and I will give my opinion here as I do in those topics, "Do what you like, it's your car"

zimmchile7

This won't really help but it's a good story.

A friend of mine spent all day dropping the rear end of his 87 T/A specifically to keep from cutting a hole in the trunk. When he finally finished about 6 hrs. later, he noticed that the person who owned the car before him had already cut a hole in the trunk and he had wasted his time.

kurfbird

iTrader: (24)

Emailme at kurfisb@msn.com

ANd I will send you some pics of a hacksaw.

kurfbird

iTrader: (24)

Hack saw
Email me at kurfisb@msn.com

ANd I will send you some pics of a hacksaw and tubing cutter

88_Import_Slaye

If you need pics of a hacksaw and tube cutter, then you need to NOT start a project like this because it is way past your skill level.

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Funy, I know what a hacksaw is, I just thought that there might be a smaller kind of hacksaw to get the lines. I am still not sure how people cut the lines with a hacksaw in the access hole?
The hacksaw just seems too big to fit in there.
Anyways, if someone can chime in on how to cut them right, that would be great.


Thanks for the help, and sarcasm is not necessary.

88_Import_Slaye

was being serious, you made it sound as if you didnt know what one was.

If I were going to cut the lines, I'd use a grinding wheel. Problem is, how are you going to flare the ends to attatch something to them?

PhLaXuS

One of my friends wanted to do this on his Camaro. He cut the hole and couldn't move the lines more than about 1/4" to do anything with. After messing around with the idea for about 3 or 4 hours, he ended up having me help him drop the tank to do it the right way. In the end, he wasted a lot of time making the access door and had to drop the tank anyway...

I did my own by myself in the driveway with the car on jackstands in maybe 3 hours. It's really not hard. It's a one-person job until you need to move the tank around. Even then, one person can do it, but a second makes it much easier.

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

If I were to drop the tank and put in a pump that is either wrong or broken, I will not want to drop it again just to change it.

15mins. is all I want. However, so far I've only heard from people who are against cutting. So if anyone who has done it could chime in, I would appreciate it.

Also, about the structural integrity of that part of the car. I have seen first hand and read on this website, that a hole there does not effect much of bodies integrity in the back.
If you take out your carpet you will see holes all over the back side of the car. Just in the spare well there are at least 8 holes.
The well for storage is a bad structural part on its own, you get hit , its not straight and it will bend. I mean, sure there are bad points to cutting the access hole, but in the end the only thing I would worry about is exhaust fumes coming in.

Also people did not flare the lines for their hoses, I've seen tons of pictures and read every single thread about the pump.
I just seem to not understand how to cut those lines.

So thats all am asking, how did you cut your lines???

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like a great way to insure an explosion, eliminating any concern about hacking up his floor. The sad, painful truth about this subject is that people who don't have the tools or skills to replace a simple fuel pump the correct way likely don't have the tools or skills to properly make an access door, cut and reattach the lines (safely), and put it all back together without making it look like a total abortion.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Why do you need to cut the lines? Why not just dissconnect them from under the car and pull the whole sending unit up with them after you cut your car up? It would be no different this way than if you have tools. I find it odd that you have a cutting wheel and means to either hinge or rivet the hatch back together but you don't have a few wrenches? Just curious.

Red Devil

Yet another hack wanting to 'do it right'. Here's a hint, you have to remove the rear and tank to actually do an access door properly. Get a damn tubing cutter and save the potential explosion, or better yet, get rid of the in-tank pump properly, run an inline pump that you can replace later with a proper one since you know you are going to replace it.

Additionally for a proper install, you have to flare the tubing. Have those tools as well or were you planning on using rubber tubing and hose clamps?

This is about as bright a thread as the kid who wanted to purge his gas tank with acetylene before welding on it.

And as an aside, my first time changing a turdgen fuel pump, I was 17 and did it myself on the side of the road. It's really not that hard to do it properly. Much easier than doing the access door, and everything related, properly.

89 CamaroIROCZ

There have been some really funny comments so far. I dropped the tank, and completely changed rear ends in less than 6 hours, and i suck at being a mechanic. If you want to cut lines in a pinch, get the mini tubing cutter from home depot or lowes. I just did a bunch of fuel line work and that was my best friend. Also the flaring tool is available at home depot as well. Only 20 dollars for the flaring tool and 5 for the cutter. Flare the tube, get some flare fittings and do the job right. Good luck, try not to blow up.

Matt

PhLaXuS

Is that for real?

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

Think it was someone else who suggested to use acetylene than the original poster in that thread.

Red Devil

:shrug: I can't remember exactly, the thread was eviscerated for safety concers, though the old sticky is floating around if anyone wants a giggle.
I do think it was the original poster though as IIRC he had posted asking that because he alleged having watched someone else do it from afar. In any case, yes it was for real, and yes people are that stupid.

88_Import_Slaye

great idea, takes away the need to ruin your car with a door you will use maybe once in years.

PhLaXuS

That's what I don't understand: Assuming you didn't get a dud, the pump should last AT LEAST 5 years if not ten or more. I view it as "working on cars is fun, but not always...this is just one of those 'not always' times".

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Ok, here is my problem with taking the rear down.
Note, that I HAVE DONE IT, REPLACED THE WHOLE REAR END FROM 2.73 DRUM TO, 3.23 DISC. However, I had a problem with seized bolts, and the ones that are hard to take out. So, I was thinking instead of droping the rear, than finding one bolt that I cant get out, and that hampers my 2 hours that I already put in it, than its really not worth it.
I guess I'll just pm some guys who did it and see what they have to say.

Thanks for your help.

88_Import_Slaye

if the rear is in place, you only have to pull 2 bolts from the tank straps and 2-4 bolts form the pan hard bar and maybe the brace depending on how good you are, I had to drop them both and I still had a difficult time manuvering the tank around that damn beam where the neck goes.

So why would you be worried about siezed bolts? You have tons of rust or has the car been rear ended? Get a breaker bar and a long extention if thats a problem.

There is a reason you are only getting answers from people against this project, they all have good reasons against it.

The only good reason, and the most important one, is, it's you car.

PhLaXuS

I had to:

1.) Place rear of car up on jackstands
2.) Unbolt the exhaust at the cat because it was welded all the way back
3.) Remove both sway bar end links from the rear axle
4.) Remove two bolts holding the panhard bar in place; remove bar
5.) Remove two bolts holding rear shocks in place
6.) Drop rear
7.) Remove gas door & plastic funnel
8.) Remove two bolts holding tank in place
9.) Remove hose clamps & flare fittings on fuel lines.
10.) Open tank & replace pump
11.) Throw everything back together

Not too hard...

88_Import_Slaye

i forgot the exhaust, I dont have any...

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

I'll try it that way.

OK!

I just wanted to do the access door.


Man, you guys are a tough crowd.



It would suck if I blew myself up changing the pump. However, it would be a good lesson for many to learn.


I'd be like, "Dad, if you hear ane explosion take my digital camera and take some pics. Than post them on thirdgen.org for everyone else to learn"

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Well, I decided to hack it up.

So, I'll post some pics when I do it.

Laters.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

I had a line inside my tank blow after intsalling a Walbro 255lph pump and having my regularor crap on me. There was NO WAY I was going to drop that whole rear end out again to do the fuel pump swap so I cut the access door in about 15 mins with some tin snips, rounded the edges back and used a piece of aluminum to cover the hole insulated with window stripping. You WILL run into 1 issue with this though, you will have to bend the fuel lines, remove the tank straps and let the tank hang, or the best bet would be to cut the lines, flare them and install short fuel injection hose rubber lines in between the cuts. I don't know why everyone on here has to be a know it all and tell everyone else how dangerous doing this and doing that is, frankly I get sick of it. You guys want to know something DRIVING IS DANGEROUS, so is owning a rear wheel drive muscle car. Cutting that access door isn't all that dangerous as long as you don't use power tools and be smart about what you're doing. Good luck on this, if you want some pics etc. of my car I can post them.

llvll4l2c91350

i havent had a chance to actually put a door but i do have a hole that i cut up a while ago to get to the pump. i swore up and down i would never cut up my car like that but when u dont have the time and ur car's running like ****, u get desperate. and i never plan on selling it, so i'll the the only one that knows its there. anyways to make the hole i used a wizz wheel and a small hacksaw from home depot to cut the lines. this was prolly the hardest part of the job b/c its very time consuming. also make sure u cut each line at different spots so when u put the rubber hose in place (if that is wat u use) they dont sit on top of each other. i think i did this over a year ago now with no problems. and yes i know what its like to do this job the right way.

Red Devil

The ignorance herein is simply appalling.

rgarcia63

Count me as one of the Ignorant.
Replacing an in-tank fuel pump on the side of the road is as dangerous as cutting an access door if not more.

I cut the access door when I had to replace the tank.
I used a SwageLok fitting only on the supply line, no need to flare the ends.
two months later the fuel pump failed, replaced it with a Walbro 255lph unit in less than half an hour.

88_Import_Slaye

nice job man. But why not get a fuel cell if that is what your worried about?

rgarcia63

To whom was the question directed to, and what's the subject of worry?

88_Import_Slaye

vauge indeed. It was a general question to those who want to do the cut out. If your worried about the pump going bad all of the time and dont like dropping the rear end (which I dont understand, unless you have some super exhaust), then why not ditch the tank and get a fuel cell? It can sit the the compartment that I assume is supposed to be a trunk of some sort, but isnt fit to store anything. If it isnt already modified to be used as a bass box, then put a fuel cell in there and be done with it.

You can get a 15 gallon fuel cell for less that the cost of a new tank.

Also, is this fuel pump problem really that bad? I'm sorry for those who cant seem to buy a decent pump, try not skimping out on that part. Dont let the pump run dry and there should be no problem unless you are maxing out the pump with your high power motor.

rgarcia63

Now that I have the access door, and a new tank I want to keep track of how much crud gets in to the tank so I can determine how often to change the pump filter sock. I don't think anyone cares about that, but I do.
The fuel gauge sender is also a problem for me, not that it doesn't work, I just don't like the design. I'm designing my own. That's my problem, if I don't like something, I'll replace it with something that does, or build my own. If I only had to do it once, I'd never need an access door.
Unless legislation does something to force me to get rid of it, it's staying with me for the rest of my life.

88_Import_Slaye

I agree 100% with that attitude

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Thats what am doing. I'll just cut the hole out and get a new pump in.
I will try to run my tank as low as possible and than drain it. Let it sit for a night with the line unplugged, (I'll cover it so nothing gets in it.
Than I'll cut the lines the next day and it will be great.

I'll post some pics.

89 CamaroIROCZ

Interesting that your now taking what is a 6 hour job, and making it a 2 day job and this is the shortcut. Good luck post pics

88_Import_Slaye

How do you plan to drain the tank? Hopefully you are going to let the pump pump it out of an open line. Of course, i'm sure you know that running pumps dry will cause them harm. They use fuel as a lubricant. Running your tank dry contantly is propbably why you are having the pump problems. Thats just my opinion.

senatorcbp

Man, everyone wants to knock the idea of cutting the floor. I know this is the wrong way of doing it but would everyone whos complaining please shut up until someone sends in a picture of a professional job. I mean not all of our cars are hotrod looking grocery getters. Third gens are ugly stock, Add wheels and other stuff and they are pretty nice. I turned mine into a street racer. I have no headliner racing seats no interior in the rear. Some cars that are modded frequently might need this modification. But please fellow hackers do the job right and either fabricate a hatch door that seals well or weld back the cut. That means no F@#king epoxy or rivets. Make a door hatch contour with the cut, add hinges and place a locking device to close the opening. Make it look like it belongs there. If not then please never work on a car ever again. I would never want to buy a camaro 10 years from now from someone that is too lazy to do it the right way.

PhLaXuS

If someone did it properly and professionally -- something that actually looked as though it were designed that way...and made it safe with seals to isolate the cabin area from the underside of the car...then I may like it.

This method does employ more work than dropping the tank. I think that's why we haven't seen pics yet. I would like to see them, though.