gruveb

Why doesn't someone who lives in that G od aweful state organize a petition to lower some of the state's emissions requirements.

They're absolutely absurd really.

I think that with the internet and various message boards getting something off of the ground like that wouldn't be too difficult.

Besides, the strictness of the emissions laws isn't to help the environment, it is to persuade people into buying new cars!

Guest

It'll never happen. The number of pansies in the state totally outweigh any enthusiasts that would try to do anything. By like 10 to 1. Besides that, the BAR operates totally on its own and does what it wants to. Good luck changing their minds.

BTW, it doesnt apply only to cars. The real problem child in Cali is the AQMD. They are a much bigger problem. I heard they just passed a new law concerning emissions from dryers, like the kind you put your clothes in

IROCZZ3

I agree with you there....if they were really concerned about the environment then they would do away with visual inspections and just worry about where it matters the most. Who cares if I don't have AIR, EGR, etc....as long as my emissions are within the limits of the sniffer test, then it's good.

Thankfully we have SEMA...they've helped kill off some proposed smog laws. Even though I'm no longer a resident of CA, I wouldn't be surprised if more states adopt CA's smog standards.

8Mike9

Don't get me started, beginning 1/1/03, my county will issue "no burn" days for our fireplaces....

gruveb

The spread of the whole thing is what I'm concerned with. Right now I live in a non-emissions checking county, and that's great. If I moved somewhere else that had a sniffer test I'd have to do some work and I guess that is what goes with the territory.

However, this other junk with visual tests and such is pure BS !

What happens if you fail emissions? What are the steps?

What if they did some sort of thing where you paid a higher license rate if you failed. The more you fail by the more you pay.....and the money would go to help those limp-wristed, tree huggin' you know whats!

Why is there such a concentration of wierd-o's to my left hand (Arizona) side anyway?

ben71

The laws here in CA are ridiculous! It was enough to force me to get an earlier, exempt car than something newer and nicer. My brother had to go through so many hoops to get his '82 to pass it was crazy. He had to get two of everything, one for performance and the other to pass emissions. And, if you check his car, it's so well tuned that his emissions would probably pass, but not the visual inspection.

The laws don't make sense. Like what has been said, if they were really concernced about emissions, it would be only a sniffer test. But you gotta love all those lobbyists that have to manipulate the laws! Unfortunately, the enthusiasts are outnumbered and don't stand a chance against this state full of tree huggers! Be thankful if you live in a place that isn't so emissions fascist like here!

Ben71

gruveb

I still think you guys ought to get together and make a stink. You may not get anything done right away, but it would certainly let them know there is serious opposition. It may prevent things from becoming any worse.

Besides, what is the worst thing that can happen?

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

its bad but, look at all those tards with beat up old cars and trucks that think they have to cut off there cats and remove all there smog stuff its stupid they should just make you paymore if you fail that way those idiots will keep there smog stuff on and we can run our cars they way we should. there is no reason cledous should chop his cat off his f-150 and drive around with an over rich carb because he thinks he knows what hes doing

8Mike9

I think the "concept" in passing the visual as well as the functional is that the lawmakers feel it's easier to "cheat" with the smog stuff off the car...i/e detune for smog and pass, then get the cert. and crank up the power and kill the birds as they fly behind you.

jocww

i agree wit mike

Guest

People already make a stink around here. It falls on deaf ears. Both Boxer and Unfeinstein are enviro nuts, and Mr. Gray 'Electric company money in my back pocket' Davis arent any better.

The emissions equipment does help, I can tell you that much. The air here was super bad in the 70's, so bad there were many days you could hardly breathe. It got a whole lot better in the late 80's, early-mid 90's, many of the older, non-emission controlled cars were off the roads. Catalytic converters were on almost everything. Fuel injected cars were very much on the uprise, and in later years the norm. Fuel efficiency was up, and pollution was down. Stuff does work.

Now we have a whole new problem, SUV's. Those things pump out pollutants by the ton. Just look at the fuel efficiency. All that burned and unburned fuel every mile has to go somewhere you know. Doesnt take a genius to figure it out, which tells you what sort of intelligence level the state people have... like none at all. So, since the whole baby boomer, minivan, SUV, soccer mom phase hit, the pollution has gotten worse than it was. Its still tolerable, but I can tell you its not getting better by any means. And then they pass stupid laws concerning things like clothes dryers and fireplaces, that wont even make so much as a dent in the pollution vapors they are worried about so much, but only the particulate matter... which is a concern but not hardly the root of the problem. Typical though, they dont want to really fix the problem, they just want to create a headache and a new agency to get funding.

I think I better stop now before I really get mad.

Brian'sIROC

New houses aren't even equipped with fireplaces anymore here in CA. They're cracking down everywhere.

gruveb

Madmax,

I agree that there needs to be emissions laws and we should be more responsible. Problem with large populations of people trying to be organized (big business and government and religion suffer from it) is that so often the actions get carried way beyond their original intent.

I know that emissions has helped in Tucson, even over the past 15 years or so. I remember it was a rare day when I could see the mountains on the north side of Tucson (I'm about 60 miles south) but now it is rare when you cannot see them!

I would be hard pressed to believe that smoke from things like fireplaces and such are as tough on pollution as pollutants from cars and industry.

It sounds like you've been making attempts. I was merely suggesting that if you called and said, "I have x number of people who agree with me on this and I want to be heard" perhaps it will happen.

You know what the environmentalist had at the beginning of their movement? They were passionate and outspoken. Then their cause caught fire and people started contributing their money.

This is how things get going.

RednGold86Z

iTrader: (1)

The key to this whole emissions deal is to educate yourself. Almost all emissions equipment (aside from slight parasitic losses from smog pump, and cat restriction) don't take any power. Stoichiometric running with a functioning 3way cat will pass any test you throw at it as long as your engine isn't burning tons of oil or misfiring. Then if your car fails, it may indicate that you have a problem somewhere that you can fix, and perhaps gain power, drivability, and performance. What I'm getting at, is although throwing a carb on a car because you've let your TBI or TPI get out of shape may be the easy way out, educating yourself about how fuel injection and emissions equipment works and how to keep your system maintained is better for you and your car, let alone the environment. There are plenty of 50 state legal parts out there to get decent street power. You don't need a cam that won't idle to get to work everyday. You don't need 550 horsepower because you'll be driving on street tires anyway. If you do need a car that is going to be a toy, buy something pre-smog. If you can't afford to do any smog legal mods to your daily driver, pick up a book or two, and learn how things really work, before you go trying to remove all your smog equipment because you don't understand it.
That being said, I just moved out to CA, and brought my 86 Z28 with a shot cat, no belt on the air pump, multiple vacuum leaks, and haven't registered it and it has been over the allowed time limit. Maybe I should get off my **** and practice what I preach. After all, I work at a fuel injection company, have 24hr access to a dyno and a 5 gas exhaust gas analyzer, a 5 gas exhaust emissions mass measurement system, and a brand new shop to work in. Hmmm.... I wonder how much it costs to register a car out here anyway? How much is a CA license? Better get going.

gruveb

RednGold86Z


Well put. I completely agree. I think that in areas where pollution is a problem they should have emissions checks. I also believe that they should continue to improve on the effeciency of cars.

I thoroughly believe that the American automotive industry fell way behind and got lazy and the import cars really helped us, the consumer.

Your point about running a 550 horsepower motor with a cam so lumpy it's like my sisters mashed potatoes is excellent. Someone earlier had mentioned something to the affect that they don't like the idea of every idiot with a tool box and a credit card building up a car that not only pollutes the environment but runs poorly due to mismatched parts, which feeds into the pollution thing again.

My only issue is what I perceive as the ultimate goal of the inspection laws. That is to force people to buy new cars instead of re-using old ones that are in decent running shape.

I spent two years in germany. They had inspection tests........tough ones too. But they were for SAFETY! Different ball game entirely.

In a perfect world we'd all be thinking ourselves from one place to another and our only emissions would be side effects from Taco Bell!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Hey, they're already trying to outlaw the beef industry for that very thing!

Back to visual inspections: At least when I left the Left Coast in '94, the sniffer test was not intended to indicate the actual emissions level of the vehicle. What it did was show what a vehicle of that model would emit when all of the equipment functioned as designed on the test vehicle used to certify the model. Therefore, you could have very different sniffer requirements for different models, but as long as the equipment was in place like the as-certified vehicle, it meets the "real" emissions requirements which were the same regardless of model.

Only the "enhanced" dyno-type test will actually show the emissions being produced. Even then, at least here in Colorado, they "skewed" the requirements in the beginning to keep the masses from rebelling. For instance, my '84 full-size van passed the first two times it was tested (every-other-year testing requirement), but failed the 3rd time even though the tested emission levels did not change from the first time.

As for Gray-out and Grosstein and crew, funny that when they propose spending cutbacks as solutions to the $20 billion state deficit problems, it's okay (because tax increases on the "rich" are part of the package), but if the GOP even suggest just keeping spending level, the media and co-conspirators cry "cutbacks on the poor" and "tax breaks for the rich"!

Oh, better not buy any more dry-clean-only clothes, either...

gruveb

I just saw Hot Rod TV talking about this same issue. Large oil companies in california are getting "emissions credits" for crushing older cars................

So they found a 67 6 cylinder camaro that was going to be crushed. Took it right from the junk yard to an emissions check center....it passed.

Then did some work on it (slight work) and so on. Basically the show was about the BS involved with the emissions laws in Cali. Talk about a good format to start from...........

KenV

...we are having more cows trucked in to cr@p all over the place, and leaf blowers are wrecking the air far more than the fireplaces can. It isn't about cleaning the air in Kalifornia, it is all about finding easy targets that cannot win protracted legal battles. Once one is in the political mill, one can a) make things right, or b) take the cash behind the scenes and work solely on reelection in order to keep the cash rolling in. That they pretend to care makes the sting even sharper. Air quality isn't the only area in which they are shafting us. Look what they do about firearms...

To stay on track, I suggest we in CA do what several counties in Washington State do. Sniffer without popping the lid. I almost moved to WA in 2K for work, but add the common-sense approach to emissions to the reasons I love our Pacific Northwest.

Peace,

K

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

I wonder what % of the population that gets tested actually does this. I think the majority of the people driving just drive from point A to point B and those who fail just fail because their 92 ford taurus etc is horribly out of tune. They know jack about tuning their cars to "just pass" and then cranking up the power again on that taurus. Ill grant that there are a small number of people who do "de tune"to pass. But how many are there really? how many hot rodders do yousee on the roads these days? I hardly see any and im always looking. With that in mind I dont see how checking underhood equipment measurably reduces pollution while I do see how just the sniffer test does (Jo blow and his 92 toyota camry gets told "hey youneed a tune up you fool" and then gets it, problem solved)

funny though that i should see this post i just posted something about this very subject on another message board. An idea I had for some pro car guy legislation in CA or any other state with similar commie emissions laws. ill post that next

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

ok heres that pro car guy emissions law I thought of

Im currently out of the country on military deployment and Ill be back soon to California which will be my new home for the next several years. The spectre of their oppressive emissions (compared to my home state of FL where there is no emissions testing) laws got me thinking of ways around the whole thing.

I cant help but think that it ends up making criminals out of alot of people who are otherwise law abiding and for what reason? Because some eco weenies want to micromanage our lives with their supposed end goal of reducing air pollution.

Since I think tackling them on the whole way they do emissions testing in general would be impossible I thought maybe there should be some way that those who just drive from point A to point B would be totally unnaffected by any idea I might have. The next thing would be that the eco-freaks would not complain.

So I came up with what I call "Auto Hobbyists registration" whereby those with any car, new or old, would be under the same rules that cars prior to 1973 now enjoy with a few caveats

(which are all up for debate)
first, the owner would have to show proof of ownership of another vehicle that is not 1973 or prior and not under an auto hobbyists registration status. The premise of such a rule would be that the vehicle in question is a secondary vehicle and not primary transportation. Thus would be on the roadways less than if it were your daily driver so to speak. It doesnt have to, it would just stand to reason that the majority of those that met this rule drove the other car anyways.

Second, the auto hobbyist registration would cost more, probably alot more. Which of course I am totally against from an ideological standpoint but I think it is one concession that will be neccessary to even get it off the ground. If im not mistaken, major manufacturers allready pay similar "penalties" for vehicles they produce that are defined as "gas guzzling" by the federal government. Why should they be afforded a loophole that isnt afforded to the common man? The premise of the extra cost would also be so that the increased revenue would fund some sort of agency or effort with the goal of cleaning up existing pollution. The last few words being critical because I dont think it would be worth it if it helped out any private organizations with leftist legislative agendas that would end up stifiling our economy and technological progress. Course, once you give money to government you are pretty much pissing it away anyways so my idea on what they do with it might be a little too idealistic

How much more money it should cost? I dont know. I think youd have to look at the demand and the total potential revenue.... With some research you could easily tie that revenue into any eco-cause and paint a pretty picture of how much it would help and thus offset all the "evil pollution" those with hobbyist licenses surely spew. Perhaps even more tax incentives for those who purchase ultra low emissions vehicles such as hybrids, etc.

I dont know how much Id be willing to pay.. I think that it would have to be under 500 dollars for it to make sense financially for most people especially when most guys can get their car passed through a variety of illegal means for 150 bux. I think even a dirt poor guy like myself could swing that every two years if only for the peice of mind it affords that you are in total compliance with the law. Youd never have to worry about big brother looking under your hood or under your car then being blacklisted and treated like a criminal for it.

I think the extra cash would also pay for itself in the long run.. how much extra do my fellow late model hotrodders have to pay for C.A.R.B. approved parts? In that sense I can also see it stimulating the aftermarket industry which has been stalled in its progress with late model parts because of the current laws...

I could go on and on
what do you think?

Russ-So Cal

One thing that wasn't mentioned in this thread is the main reason why we are stuck with a visual inspection forever. The answer has nothing to do with smog control, and it has nothing to do with cleaner air. It has everything to do with $$$$. If I'm a manufacturer of aftermarket equipment, and I want a C.A.R.B. eo# it will cost me about $100,00.00 for a 1990 Chevy 350 in a Camaro. Now if I want to get the same thing for a Corvette, same engine, different car, it will cost another $25,000.00. If I want to get the same thing for a 305, it will be another $100,000.00 because it is a different engine. Same thing if I want to get the # for a 1991 model. It is a different year so I have to sart all over and pony up another $100,000.00. These numbers were given to me by the owner of BDS in whittier, so I don't know how accurate the numbers are, but C.A.R.B. eo# mean big bucks to California. If there is one thing true of government anywhere, once they find a money source, they don't ever give it up. That is why Edelbrock, Holley, and Mr Gasket are buying up so many speed equipment companies. You have to be a multimillion dollar corporation to get the necessary eo# to put products on the street. That is also why a set of smog legal headers are so much more expensive than nonconforming headers. BDS is concentrating their marketing efforts to pre 1973 model cars, and purpose built race cars, but that also limits their market. The pre 1973 cars are getting scarce, and the market for purpose built race cars has always been limited.

dunerida82

My friend knows this guy that usually hooks me and my other friend when it comes to smogging. We gotta pay him to do it though, but if you know someone who will do it, slip them some bills and get yourself cleared. One unsmogged car won't melt the fukin polar ice caps. :rockon:

Chrome.45

same here, its very easy to slip through,
all you have to do is fork out a lil extra cash and it works
im lucky enough to have a freind who owns a shop and can get me done and also my moms BF who works for the city of sunnyvale and he has connections
life is good when you cheat....sometimes