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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
It refers to whether or not the pump is submerged in oil.
A wet flow system is like your stock one. The oil pump sits inside the oil pan.
A dry flow system has an external electric pump that sits outside the pan.
A dry flow is what racers use to reduce parastatic loss (i.e. the HP it takes the motor to pump the oil itself). How much of a gain is there? I don't know since I don't drag or road race.
interesting.....i wouldnt trust an electric pump on oil....if the pump motor goes, thats not good. wet sump seems like better insurance for the few horses.
Most dry sump systems use a belt-drive pump (Weaver Bros., etc.)
It is the typical setup for circle-track or other endurance conditions. If any NASCAR show cars visit your area, go look at the left side of the front of the motor. Once in a while you'll hear them talk about "debris knocked the belt off", obviously when that happens there's no oil pressure, the motor will not even last long enough at 8500+ RPMs for the driver to shut it off.
FYI... NASCAR rules limit the "length" of the pump. Most teams run 3 scavenge stages (suck oil out of various places in the motor and sends it to the cooler and tank) and 1 pressure stage (sends cool, filtered oil from the tank to the block).
Here's what one looks like... it's right under the guy's left arm.
Wet sump is what our cars (well, most of them) have.
So i guess all dry sump systems would have an external oil filter?
doesnt make much sense...belt driven/internal gear driven...sounds like it would kinda take the same horsepower loss either way? i guess it must be for the G-force effect which is why they would have 3 scavage areas?
Yes, they all use external oil filters, often more than one.
The "loss" issue isn't much of a concern; it takes x amount of power to move y amount of oil at Z pressure, period. Doesn't matter where the pump is located.
Advantages of a dry sump system include less loss from the crank being exposed to the sump; smaller oil pan, for reduced ground clearance problems; oil pan that can be shaped any way you want, in the case of circle-track motors, the oil all gets slung to the pass side of the engine by the act of cornering; far greater oil capacity, NASCAR racers carry several gallons; better cooling potential.
Don't forget the cost. It is a crappy money to power ratio, but NASCAR throws money around like it's going out of style. Then again every little ounce of power can make or brake you in that sport. If one team uses it they all use it, it's like the cold war thingy.
Wet sump, what 50 bucks...
Dry sump, THOUSANDS!!!
BTW: Dry sumps also hold 12+ quarts of oil in the system & reservoir tank in the back of the car, so they have an awesome cooling capacity & researve oil for burn durning a race...
Made an account literally just to respond. You are a ****ing legend
Sure, Mr. Bowman bumped an old thread, SO THE EFF WHAT!?!?!?
He didn't bump it to add some useless "allright bro" comment, he has added some awesomely relevant content to the thread's theme.
Guy bumps an old thread and catches crap, , , and if he started a new thread he'd have been chastised for not doing a search for an existing thread, , , great way to strangle a forum...
I don't have the room for a wet sump tank and no more room for more belts. An alternator, fuel pump and vacuum pump all running off a crank mandrel is enough. I even have my alternator flipped around just to position the pulley closer to the crank mandrel.
Wet or dry sump really depends on how much access you have under the hood.
Vacuum pump puke tank is easy. I have one mounted to the rad support. I'm talking about the 5 quart external oil sump for a dry sump oil system.
All those above belt pictures are nice however I run an electric water pump so there is no pulley on the water pump to add more belts or help change belt direction.
I run motor plates so tucking things up beside the block is difficult.
This is excellent for useless knowledge considering what most of us can build or use our builds for but it’s still knowledge! I personally just went with a Canton 244T for all the reasons you stated. I have read that these systems drastically increase ring wear however since they scavenge oil so well that very little is left to splash around and lubricate the rings. Also require special provisions to lubricate the camshaft since it too largely depends on splash oil.
Reread what I wrote douchbag and quit looking for a fight. It wasn’t insulting at all. I was thanking you for it because most knowledge is useless but it’s all worth having. Have a shitty Christmas or you just read everything written with the taint of your garbage attitude?
Just for a little bit of levity, here is a blown 400ci small block on nitro with a dry sump driven off the front of the engine. The tank holds 15 quarts of 70 weight oil. Note the siamese port heads which are solid cast (no coolant) and the valve covers that vent into the frame. 6.4's @ 225mph.
I don’t really care what most of y’all have to say because well you’re really never going to build anything that impresses me anyway or even anything that is as durable.
I found this part funny because the guy is in complete denial of reality (which is why he is so easily offended). This sump system he has been working on for months is a massive maintenance nightmare that is only applicable to a VERY specific application and NOT a daily driver, show car, restoration project, OR really anyone else I know of on this forum. I don't think "durable" is an adjective that can really be used for this kind of project.
I've been daily driving my current Thirdgen for about 13 years now since a full rebuild. This guy's Thirdgen is sitting collecting dust while he builds some dream machine that will see very few miles and at best a few years before something fails and it is left in a yard somewhere to be reclaimed by the earth. If you want something to be "durable" it must be simple with a minimum of moving parts or points of failure.
I don't really care if people have weird fetishes or uncommon interests, maybe just go create a specific thread for that instead of resurrecting old threads that had long been forgotten and abandoned (because nobody cared).
TB89 has given us many of the ins and outs (and separators, scrapers, squirters, screens, baffles, lines, and pumps) of the dry sump system, with diagrams and plenty of detail photos. The OP didn't ask about the practicality of either system for any specific application. Dry sump systems are almost a necessity for high-G (and negative G) applications, and that's a really small segment compared to street/stock designs. While it may be eye candy for much of the membership here, the weekend warrior enthusiasts might just want to have a better grasp of the concept. I suspect that was the intent of the original question.
Now, if we could all just be civil and respectful...
10-08-2002, 04:06 PM
