ok, my revised engine buildup, everyone please read and post comments!
10-02-2002, 08:11 PM
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ok, my revised engine buildup, everyone please read and post comments!
Ok... my goal is solid mid-13's on pump gas, out of a 350 to deliver good gas milage as a daily driver... N/A... all on a 1500$ budget...
Engine, with flat top pistons, oil pan, timing set:350
vortec heads:~500 after minor machine work...
Summit cam (SUM-K1103, 214/224, .442/.465 & 112LSA) kit ~72 bucks...
springs:~100
vortec intake from a company I can't remember: 150
carb, vac distrib, headers no more than $200 at Englishtown swap meet
AFPR $100
rocker arms: $50 from summit
gaskets ~100...
700R4 150-600$
I am way over budget... the vortecs are killing me... it doesn't look very possible fella's... I'll port the stock 350 heads myself and wait until the race season after the upcoming one to put the vortecs on... until then.. hopefully when the motor goes together in the spring it'll be at least pretty damn close to 13's...
Without the vortecs I can stay under budget by finding any old intake and porting it a little.. match it up to the heads....
I'll be pushing it...
Engine, with flat top pistons, oil pan, timing set:350
vortec heads:~500 after minor machine work...
Summit cam (SUM-K1103, 214/224, .442/.465 & 112LSA) kit ~72 bucks...
springs:~100
vortec intake from a company I can't remember: 150
carb, vac distrib, headers no more than $200 at Englishtown swap meet
AFPR $100
rocker arms: $50 from summit
gaskets ~100...
700R4 150-600$
I am way over budget... the vortecs are killing me... it doesn't look very possible fella's... I'll port the stock 350 heads myself and wait until the race season after the upcoming one to put the vortecs on... until then.. hopefully when the motor goes together in the spring it'll be at least pretty damn close to 13's...
Without the vortecs I can stay under budget by finding any old intake and porting it a little.. match it up to the heads....
I'll be pushing it...
10-02-2002, 08:16 PM
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Car: 99 Formula
Engine: LS1
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 342
Hmmm, Vortec intake for $150 not bad, Jegs has it for $250.
Also, get a higher stall TC like 2200-2500 or so, that will really help you out.
Also, get a higher stall TC like 2200-2500 or so, that will really help you out.
10-02-2002, 08:44 PM
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I noticed that... it's not looking too good...I'm doing this once and I'm doing it right, if it means no 350 next summer, I'm going to shoot myself... I need other suggestions people...
10-02-2002, 09:16 PM
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Car: Guess
Engine: Crazy 8
Transmission: So close to being a manual I can taste it
Nitrous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, I know you want it on motor and for $1500.
Yeah, I know you want it on motor and for $1500.
10-02-2002, 11:24 PM
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Car: 1991 Corvette Coupe
Engine: L98
Transmission: 700R4/4L60 same trans different name
erik- you have to add to the cost all the parts you need to convert your V6 to a V8 too
that kills your budget...................i did it for you.....
your total was $2000 with 350 heads but a great cam
that kills your budget...................i did it for you.....
your total was $2000 with 350 heads but a great cam
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10-02-2002, 11:58 PM
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The company with the vortec intakes for $150
is Professional Products.
www.professional-products.com
Maybe I can trim you recipe costs a little.
What carb do you have right now?
A stock non computer controled. Qjet will do. You can Damonize it yourself... A holley 600vs is ok.
Any old carter / edelbrock will work.
Why do you need a $100 adjustable fuel pressure regulator?
get a 7psi fuel pump either electric (carter ) or mechanical (Carter, etc) on the motor and forget it. (remove any in tank pump).
Needs no regulator. A 3/8 fuel line from tank to carb would be nice and a good fuel filter.
What cam do you have in the motor now,, or on the work bench?
Hard to beat the Summit cam prices, but you may have the
perfect cam now.
You can get 2200 stall converter from V6 s10's or Corvettes
You can id a 2200 stall factory converter by the second letter in the 4 digit code. Search the net for the info.
What trans do you have now?
You can get a good vacuum advance HEI distributor
from any non computer controlled carbed v8 chev.
Mine is right out of the wreckers with only a MSD replacement coil new cap (accel) and MSD wires. I use the stock module. I gained nothing by messing with the advance curve. Runs the same.
is Professional Products.
www.professional-products.com
Maybe I can trim you recipe costs a little.
What carb do you have right now?
A stock non computer controled. Qjet will do. You can Damonize it yourself... A holley 600vs is ok.
Any old carter / edelbrock will work.
Why do you need a $100 adjustable fuel pressure regulator?
get a 7psi fuel pump either electric (carter ) or mechanical (Carter, etc) on the motor and forget it. (remove any in tank pump).
Needs no regulator. A 3/8 fuel line from tank to carb would be nice and a good fuel filter.
What cam do you have in the motor now,, or on the work bench?
Hard to beat the Summit cam prices, but you may have the
perfect cam now.
You can get 2200 stall converter from V6 s10's or Corvettes
You can id a 2200 stall factory converter by the second letter in the 4 digit code. Search the net for the info.
What trans do you have now?
You can get a good vacuum advance HEI distributor
from any non computer controlled carbed v8 chev.
Mine is right out of the wreckers with only a MSD replacement coil new cap (accel) and MSD wires. I use the stock module. I gained nothing by messing with the advance curve. Runs the same.
Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 10-03-2002 at 12:23 AM.
10-03-2002, 09:04 AM
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Car: Camaro sc
Engine: 350 cid.
Transmission: 700R4
The heads i ended up using on my engine came off of a 94'tpi 350 engine,there not quite as good as the vortecs,but have some good points that make them desireable.They have 1.94-1.50 valves and 64 cc combustion chambers which is going to help compression.Hotrod magazine did a 350 buildup a couple of years ago,and gained 15 horsepower by bolting a pair of these heads up that weren't even touched and had 40,000 miles on them.All i had to do was elongate the 4 center holes in the intake to get them to fit.I also love those center-bolt valvecovers,no leaks!The best part was,mine were free.(I think hot rod paid 40.00 for their set.)Thats budget horsepower.
10-03-2002, 09:28 AM
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Car: 4
Engine: 6
Transmission: 5
That should work fine, except there's lots of stuff that isn't in that list. I'd put money on at least $500 more nickel-and-dime stuff to put the engine together; bolts, water pump, brackets, mounts, gaskets, hoses, belts, fluids, exhaust work, etc. etc.
IMHO the Vortecs are far and away the best bang for the buck at that kind of power and budget level. Treat them properly (i.e. fix what absolutely has to be fixed to turn them from a low-perf replacement truck service part into a performance part, and leave as much else as possible about them alone) and they're a great deal. There's no other way to get their performance level at anywhere near their price, as long as you avoid doing machine work to them.
Your budget is unrealistic. You're not going to be able to start from scratch and end up with a completed reliable project for that kind of money. At the prices you have listed for some of those things (the trans comes immediately to mind) you'll either have to have some really generous friends, or get really lucky, or you'll end up with a random used unknown-condition junker.
F-bird makes some good points about some things you can trim around the edges; none of those is really lots of money or anything though. All of those tips together won't save you enough money compared to your budget to make a difference to your project.
I don't know what "stock" 350 heads you're talking about, but any of them except for L98 heads or double-humps will leave you far short of what the Vortecs will do. 305 heads will be even worse, except that the best 305 heads will approach what mediocre 350 heads can do. There's no such thing as "almost as good" in that area. Heads are everything: without them, you cannot make power, period. It's a matter of flow.
OBTW there are no 94 TPI engines. 92 was the last year of that system. It would be worthwhile to know what heads they replaced to get that kind of HP improvement; with as many varieties of stock 350 heads as there are, just saying "gained 15 HP" is kind of meaningless. I could easily build a motor where you could pick up 50 HP or lose 200 HP by doing that swap.
Sounds like you're really at a crossroads, and you need to make a hard decision: do you want to have a fast reliable car the first time out, or do you want to spend under $1500? I don't think you can do both.
IMHO the Vortecs are far and away the best bang for the buck at that kind of power and budget level. Treat them properly (i.e. fix what absolutely has to be fixed to turn them from a low-perf replacement truck service part into a performance part, and leave as much else as possible about them alone) and they're a great deal. There's no other way to get their performance level at anywhere near their price, as long as you avoid doing machine work to them.
Your budget is unrealistic. You're not going to be able to start from scratch and end up with a completed reliable project for that kind of money. At the prices you have listed for some of those things (the trans comes immediately to mind) you'll either have to have some really generous friends, or get really lucky, or you'll end up with a random used unknown-condition junker.
F-bird makes some good points about some things you can trim around the edges; none of those is really lots of money or anything though. All of those tips together won't save you enough money compared to your budget to make a difference to your project.
I don't know what "stock" 350 heads you're talking about, but any of them except for L98 heads or double-humps will leave you far short of what the Vortecs will do. 305 heads will be even worse, except that the best 305 heads will approach what mediocre 350 heads can do. There's no such thing as "almost as good" in that area. Heads are everything: without them, you cannot make power, period. It's a matter of flow.
OBTW there are no 94 TPI engines. 92 was the last year of that system. It would be worthwhile to know what heads they replaced to get that kind of HP improvement; with as many varieties of stock 350 heads as there are, just saying "gained 15 HP" is kind of meaningless. I could easily build a motor where you could pick up 50 HP or lose 200 HP by doing that swap.
Sounds like you're really at a crossroads, and you need to make a hard decision: do you want to have a fast reliable car the first time out, or do you want to spend under $1500? I don't think you can do both.
10-03-2002, 10:33 AM
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RB... already found a working trans for 150... worse comes to worse, I supply the parts (already looked up prices on 700R4 rebuild kits and a TC from summit) and my friend Glenn will rebuild it for free... comes to about 600 bucks...
The engine I already found, 350 freshly rebuilt with about 4000 miles on it... I could either get a powermax 2050 cam in it, or a Crane Energizer 272 H10 Hydraulic, Single Pattern
Int/Exh: Adv. Dur. 272/272, Dur. @ .050" 216/216. Lift: .454"/.454" 110LSA from the fellow...
However... I've turned my back on this build up... I found a 350 TPI motor with 200K + miles on it in a wrecked-in-the-rear IROC... for 600 bucks... guy says it's still running strong when I last talked to him... I'm waiting for a reply back... hopefully he hasn't ebay'd it yet like he said he was going to...
I've decided to get an entire running 350 car, to cut costs...
1500 budget is cutting it way short to build a 13 second motor and swap it in place of a v6 drivetrain, I realize that now... hopefully I will meet goal with buying a running 350 wreck, cleaning up the journals, re-ringing it and slapping some new bearings on it... stab a better cam in and whatever else my budget allows and hope for the best... Not what some would call kosher, but if it runs and lasts me another 100K I'm good.
The engine I already found, 350 freshly rebuilt with about 4000 miles on it... I could either get a powermax 2050 cam in it, or a Crane Energizer 272 H10 Hydraulic, Single Pattern
Int/Exh: Adv. Dur. 272/272, Dur. @ .050" 216/216. Lift: .454"/.454" 110LSA from the fellow...
However... I've turned my back on this build up... I found a 350 TPI motor with 200K + miles on it in a wrecked-in-the-rear IROC... for 600 bucks... guy says it's still running strong when I last talked to him... I'm waiting for a reply back... hopefully he hasn't ebay'd it yet like he said he was going to...
I've decided to get an entire running 350 car, to cut costs...
1500 budget is cutting it way short to build a 13 second motor and swap it in place of a v6 drivetrain, I realize that now... hopefully I will meet goal with buying a running 350 wreck, cleaning up the journals, re-ringing it and slapping some new bearings on it... stab a better cam in and whatever else my budget allows and hope for the best... Not what some would call kosher, but if it runs and lasts me another 100K I'm good.
10-03-2002, 10:53 AM
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Car: 1991 Corvette Coupe
Engine: L98
Transmission: 700R4/4L60 same trans different name
sounds good erik- figure $100 for decent rings
$100 for all new bearings
$250 for a roller cam (cuz if its an 87+ thats what it has)
$600 for the car
are you going to use the TPI or carb it? if you carb it, i'l gladly take the TPI off your hands
hows the trans on the car
i guess you'll use the heads that are on the engine without rebuilding them
BUT, lets do a compression check and make sure theres no blue smoke puffing on start up, we'll also have to get a dial bore gauge and make sure the block needs not be bored
hopefully by springtime i should have my engine hoist and engine stand........though you might need to get your own engine stand, cuz my 350 needs alot of work
$100 for entire gasket set
$1050 so far......................
should also get new motor mounts while they are accesable to do.............
when i figured my parts total to put a 350 in place of my 6 popper, the total came to about $3000.....................that was all brand new items though..............
$100 for all new bearings
$250 for a roller cam (cuz if its an 87+ thats what it has)
$600 for the car
are you going to use the TPI or carb it? if you carb it, i'l gladly take the TPI off your hands
hows the trans on the car
i guess you'll use the heads that are on the engine without rebuilding them
BUT, lets do a compression check and make sure theres no blue smoke puffing on start up, we'll also have to get a dial bore gauge and make sure the block needs not be bored
hopefully by springtime i should have my engine hoist and engine stand........though you might need to get your own engine stand, cuz my 350 needs alot of work
$100 for entire gasket set
$1050 so far......................
should also get new motor mounts while they are accesable to do.............
when i figured my parts total to put a 350 in place of my 6 popper, the total came to about $3000.....................that was all brand new items though..............
10-03-2002, 10:58 AM
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The engine I already found, 350 freshly rebuilt with about 4000 miles on it... I could either get a powermax 2050 cam in it, or a Crane Energizer 272 H10 Hydraulic, Single Pattern
Int/Exh: Adv. Dur. 272/272, Dur. @ .050" 216/216. Lift: .454"/.454" 110LSA from the fellow...
The Crane 2050 powermax is just the cam you'd want to use.
Specs are 272/284 216/228@.050" .454/.480 112
same as Crane HMV272
Int/Exh: Adv. Dur. 272/272, Dur. @ .050" 216/216. Lift: .454"/.454" 110LSA from the fellow...
The Crane 2050 powermax is just the cam you'd want to use.
Specs are 272/284 216/228@.050" .454/.480 112
same as Crane HMV272
Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 10-03-2002 at 11:21 AM.
10-03-2002, 06:18 PM
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f-bird.. we got better numbers on DD2k with the XE 256 cam... much better results...
I think I'm bringing back the old motor, because I found vortec heads for 150 bucks for the set...
I think I'm bringing back the old motor, because I found vortec heads for 150 bucks for the set...
10-03-2002, 07:09 PM
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Car: 99 Formula
Engine: LS1
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 342
Originally posted by Xenodrgn
f-bird.. we got better numbers on DD2k with the XE 256 cam... much better results...
I think I'm bringing back the old motor, because I found vortec heads for 150 bucks for the set...
f-bird.. we got better numbers on DD2k with the XE 256 cam... much better results...
I think I'm bringing back the old motor, because I found vortec heads for 150 bucks for the set...
seriously though if you find other good deals on heads let me know.
10-03-2002, 07:11 PM
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Car: 1991 Corvette Coupe
Engine: L98
Transmission: 700R4/4L60 same trans different name
Originally posted by Xenodrgn
I think I'm bringing back the old motor, because I found vortec heads for 150 bucks for the set...
I think I'm bringing back the old motor, because I found vortec heads for 150 bucks for the set...
10-03-2002, 07:27 PM
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Nods... tell that guy I want them... I can't let a deal like that go... I'll give him 150 cash...
Do the heads come with the rockers Glenn? (if yes.. total +++)
(Is it Glen or Glenn?)
P.S... what's up with AIM man... I can see your IM's, but apparently you can't see mine...
Do the heads come with the rockers Glenn? (if yes.. total +++)
(Is it Glen or Glenn?)
P.S... what's up with AIM man... I can see your IM's, but apparently you can't see mine...
10-03-2002, 09:59 PM
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so far all you've talked about is the engine. don't forget about building up the 10 + year old suspension. if you wanna hit 13's, you're probably gonna have to put some money into it
10-03-2002, 10:02 PM
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Car: 99 Formula
Engine: LS1
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 342
Originally posted by LYV18F
so far all you've talked about is the engine. don't forget about building up the 10 + year old suspension. if you wanna hit 13's, you're probably gonna have to put some money into it
so far all you've talked about is the engine. don't forget about building up the 10 + year old suspension. if you wanna hit 13's, you're probably gonna have to put some money into it
10-03-2002, 10:06 PM
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well he didn't tell me... unless i didn't read it.
i've been whoring tonight, trying to catch up to you... i'm almost there too, maybe if i keep it up i can hit 100 tonight
i've been whoring tonight, trying to catch up to you... i'm almost there too, maybe if i keep it up i can hit 100 tonight
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