Questions about Vortec heads... what springs they come with... ect...
10-02-2002, 12:39 PM
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Questions about Vortec heads... what springs they come with... ect...
Ok, I'm looking at a set of Vortec heads for my motor I'm building...
Where can I find specs on the Vortec heads? What different combustion chamber sizes do they come in? I'm looking at right around 9.3:1 with Keith Black flat top pistons with a 72CC head... I was hoping maybe Vortecs came in 70CC or 68 CC versions to eek out a solid 9.5:1 C/R...
I'll also be using one of the following cams... an XE 268, powermax 2050, or a crane cams 272 grind cam... Will valvetrain/springs on the Vortec heads make it to 6G and support close to .5" of cam lift?
Of these cams, which do you recomend to me for a 13 second street car where MPG is a consern...
This will all be sitting under a carb... Probably an RPM and a 600-700 vac Holley... maybe not at first (IE, get anything on it so I can drive it...)
Where can I find specs on the Vortec heads? What different combustion chamber sizes do they come in? I'm looking at right around 9.3:1 with Keith Black flat top pistons with a 72CC head... I was hoping maybe Vortecs came in 70CC or 68 CC versions to eek out a solid 9.5:1 C/R...
I'll also be using one of the following cams... an XE 268, powermax 2050, or a crane cams 272 grind cam... Will valvetrain/springs on the Vortec heads make it to 6G and support close to .5" of cam lift?
Of these cams, which do you recomend to me for a 13 second street car where MPG is a consern...
This will all be sitting under a carb... Probably an RPM and a 600-700 vac Holley... maybe not at first (IE, get anything on it so I can drive it...)
10-02-2002, 01:11 PM
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Car: DAF
Engine: 3 cyl 2 cycle
Transmission: variable speed
the Vortec flog again........
You need a dedicated manifold for the Vortec heads, the stock heads only will take .480' net lift at the valve.....the chamber is quite small at I THINK 62 cc.... and on and on.
SR or SR Torquers might B a better choice. After all is said and done they might be a bit less $$ also.
SR or SR Torquers might B a better choice. After all is said and done they might be a bit less $$ also.
10-02-2002, 01:19 PM
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Car: 4
Engine: 6
Transmission: 5
They are spec'd at 64cc, but are usually somewhat smaller.
The springs are garbage. They are REPLACEMENT TRUCK SPRINGS. No matter what cam you use, they are inadequate. Throw them in the trash and use the ones recommended for whatever cam you choose.
People seem to be getting the best results with the XE268H.
The heads themselves do not support over .480" lift as they come, without machine work. The retainers will hit the guides. Remember, they are REPLACEMENT TRUCK HEADS, not performance heads; so, regardless of how well they flow or what their actual performance potential might be, they are about as far from a performance setup as there is, as they come. There's more to a "performance" head than flow numbers.
Stick with a cam of .480" lift or less, and if you get close to that (like the XE268), check carefully for interference. Do not attempt to use the springs that are on them. They are basically L03 or LG4 springs, not high-perf at all.
The way to get results with those heads AND do it economically is to avoid machine work as much as possible. Replace only what's absolutely necessary: which is springs and retainers; leave everything else alone. Stick with lifts that fit without modification, use self-aligning rockers so you don't have to fool with the studs, etc. Start working on them, and you will find yourself exceeding the cost of aftermarket ones in a hurry.
The springs are garbage. They are REPLACEMENT TRUCK SPRINGS. No matter what cam you use, they are inadequate. Throw them in the trash and use the ones recommended for whatever cam you choose.
People seem to be getting the best results with the XE268H.
The heads themselves do not support over .480" lift as they come, without machine work. The retainers will hit the guides. Remember, they are REPLACEMENT TRUCK HEADS, not performance heads; so, regardless of how well they flow or what their actual performance potential might be, they are about as far from a performance setup as there is, as they come. There's more to a "performance" head than flow numbers.
Stick with a cam of .480" lift or less, and if you get close to that (like the XE268), check carefully for interference. Do not attempt to use the springs that are on them. They are basically L03 or LG4 springs, not high-perf at all.
The way to get results with those heads AND do it economically is to avoid machine work as much as possible. Replace only what's absolutely necessary: which is springs and retainers; leave everything else alone. Stick with lifts that fit without modification, use self-aligning rockers so you don't have to fool with the studs, etc. Start working on them, and you will find yourself exceeding the cost of aftermarket ones in a hurry.
10-02-2002, 01:43 PM
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Looks like I'll be selling the cam in the motor for the XE268... machining some stock 350 heads a little to boost compression, fitting them with screw in studs and strapping some worthy springs on them...
I see this costing more than I had planned...
****!
I see this costing more than I had planned...
****!
10-02-2002, 01:53 PM
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i'm going to talk to my local machine shop abuot some choices I have and to get a price on the work I want done to these heads...
All this is making my heads spin... and I have a huge ****ing test in about an hour... that I -should- be studying for...
For an answer on this math test.. I know i'm going to screw up and write something like " X=dur@.050" or something...
Ahh! The stress!
All this is making my heads spin... and I have a huge ****ing test in about an hour... that I -should- be studying for...
For an answer on this math test.. I know i'm going to screw up and write something like " X=dur@.050" or something...
Ahh! The stress!
10-02-2002, 02:52 PM
#7
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It seems that the only nay sayers when it comes to Vortec heads are people that *don't have them*....
You can buy them and have them modified to be ready to go for far less than a set of other aftermarket heads.
Even including the nessessary intake.
You want to get the valve guides top shortened .200"
Any *qualified* machine shop can do this at very reasonable prices
for ya. It is routine stuff for them.
You should replace the valve springs with hi perf stock dia
type springs like comp cams #981 or simular.
You can and should reuse the stock retainers, locks and valve seals.
thats all you have to do for moderate street performance.
You will need a set of self guide type rockers stock replacement
1988 and later v8 are more than enough.
You DO NOT NEED screw in studs or guide plates for moderate street performance. Or killer valve springs. The only way you'll have trouble with the pressed in studs is if you seriously over rev the motor and float the valvetrain. You are more likely to have a problem with something else. There is no need to exeed 5500 rpm to get the performance from these heads with a street cam.
You do not need roller rockers or 1.6 ratio rockers for moderate street performance.
The Comp xe 268 is a powerfull cam BUT is a bad choice for moderate performace with *gas mileage*, it is too big for this. A better choice would be
A comp xe262 or Any cam with around 204 to 218@.050 duration
is what you want. Do not over cam the motor it will be a gas hog.
You can buy a high quality, inexpensive intake from Professional Products for the vortecs if the Edelbrock intakes are too much for ya. They are not expensive either.
http://www.professional-products.com/
Everyone who bolts these heads on, likes them.
They are a true "performance street head" by every definition.
Follow these recomendations and your moderate street performance motor will out perform
all the other possible setups like S/R's, Vette heads , camel backs
etc, for a lot less. Best bang for the $buck$ by far.
Get the heads, do the few mods nessessary to get them ready
for your car, bolt them on and go. You will not be dissapointed.
All the na-sayers will be looking at your tail lights.
You will have a strong 13 sec car with good gas mileage
and room to grow later if you want.
Your only problem will be keeping rubber on your tires!!!
These heads can carry you right into the 11's in a third gen with porting and bigger valves and proper mods.
What part of that doesn't spell performance?
They are all 64 cc. Perfect for a flat top 350 motor on pump gas.
Check my Readers Ride on this site for results.
This is typical "Real World" performance, some go even faster.
Querry some others that have these heads and see what they say.
You can buy them and have them modified to be ready to go for far less than a set of other aftermarket heads.
Even including the nessessary intake.
You want to get the valve guides top shortened .200"
Any *qualified* machine shop can do this at very reasonable prices
for ya. It is routine stuff for them.
You should replace the valve springs with hi perf stock dia
type springs like comp cams #981 or simular.
You can and should reuse the stock retainers, locks and valve seals.
thats all you have to do for moderate street performance.
You will need a set of self guide type rockers stock replacement
1988 and later v8 are more than enough.
You DO NOT NEED screw in studs or guide plates for moderate street performance. Or killer valve springs. The only way you'll have trouble with the pressed in studs is if you seriously over rev the motor and float the valvetrain. You are more likely to have a problem with something else. There is no need to exeed 5500 rpm to get the performance from these heads with a street cam.
You do not need roller rockers or 1.6 ratio rockers for moderate street performance.
The Comp xe 268 is a powerfull cam BUT is a bad choice for moderate performace with *gas mileage*, it is too big for this. A better choice would be
A comp xe262 or Any cam with around 204 to 218@.050 duration
is what you want. Do not over cam the motor it will be a gas hog.
You can buy a high quality, inexpensive intake from Professional Products for the vortecs if the Edelbrock intakes are too much for ya. They are not expensive either.
http://www.professional-products.com/
Everyone who bolts these heads on, likes them.
They are a true "performance street head" by every definition.
Follow these recomendations and your moderate street performance motor will out perform
all the other possible setups like S/R's, Vette heads , camel backs
etc, for a lot less. Best bang for the $buck$ by far.
Get the heads, do the few mods nessessary to get them ready
for your car, bolt them on and go. You will not be dissapointed.
All the na-sayers will be looking at your tail lights.
You will have a strong 13 sec car with good gas mileage
and room to grow later if you want.
Your only problem will be keeping rubber on your tires!!!
These heads can carry you right into the 11's in a third gen with porting and bigger valves and proper mods.
What part of that doesn't spell performance?
They are all 64 cc. Perfect for a flat top 350 motor on pump gas.
Check my Readers Ride on this site for results.
This is typical "Real World" performance, some go even faster.
Querry some others that have these heads and see what they say.
Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 10-02-2002 at 07:39 PM.
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10-02-2002, 05:17 PM
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f-bird... thank you for your suggestions...
only thing is... I did not want to under-cam the motor into the 14's.. only to find out the only reason I can't get a solid mid-13 second pass out of it is a ****ty cam...
Right now... if I type the numbers into my C/R calculator, with 6CC's worth of valve relief, a .030 head gasket and 0 deck hight... I am getting right around 10.3:1 C/R... too much for me... I want it in the 9.5-9.8 range...
Stock 350 heads are 72 CC, correct?
Ahh! This has got to be the worst part of the whole thing... Planning out the ****...
only thing is... I did not want to under-cam the motor into the 14's.. only to find out the only reason I can't get a solid mid-13 second pass out of it is a ****ty cam...
Right now... if I type the numbers into my C/R calculator, with 6CC's worth of valve relief, a .030 head gasket and 0 deck hight... I am getting right around 10.3:1 C/R... too much for me... I want it in the 9.5-9.8 range...
Stock 350 heads are 72 CC, correct?
Ahh! This has got to be the worst part of the whole thing... Planning out the ****...
10-02-2002, 07:32 PM
#10
Supreme Member
Originally posted by Xenodrgn
f-bird... thank you for your suggestions...
only thing is... I did not want to under-cam the motor into the 14's.. only to find out the only reason I can't get a solid mid-13 second pass out of it is a ****ty cam...
Right now... if I type the numbers into my C/R calculator, with 6CC's worth of valve relief, a .030 head gasket and 0 deck hight... I am getting right around 10.3:1 C/R... too much for me... I want it in the 9.5-9.8 range...
Stock 350 heads are 72 CC, correct?
Ahh! This has got to be the worst part of the whole thing... Planning out the ****...
f-bird... thank you for your suggestions...
only thing is... I did not want to under-cam the motor into the 14's.. only to find out the only reason I can't get a solid mid-13 second pass out of it is a ****ty cam...
Right now... if I type the numbers into my C/R calculator, with 6CC's worth of valve relief, a .030 head gasket and 0 deck hight... I am getting right around 10.3:1 C/R... too much for me... I want it in the 9.5-9.8 range...
Stock 350 heads are 72 CC, correct?
Ahh! This has got to be the worst part of the whole thing... Planning out the ****...
That leaves you a lot of room. You don't need a cam any bigger then that.... If, you want mileage and 13 sec quarter mile times , you don't want a cam bigger than that. The xe 268 needs a converter to run faster than a smaller " s****y" cam ( more cost, less mileage) the power advantage is only at higher rpm.
The heads make the power, the cam doesn't.
I get 10.17:1 with a felpro .041" gasket 9.3cc vol
If you actually have a "0 decked" block and need a lower cr
use the corvette .051" gasket. It's like 11.2+cc's
You'll be under 10:1 and ok with street pump gas.
You'll find these heads do not need as much ignition timing to make max power. (More detonation torerant than old heads)
Mine runs the same q-mile at 30 deg as 36 deg.
Mine is 10.03:1 and never pings.
If you're not exactly 0 decked use felpro #1004.
if you are exactly 0 decked use felpro #1044
Stock 350 heads are commonly 64 cc or 76 cc. You may find a few 72 cc heads but not likely.
10-02-2002, 07:44 PM
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Ahh, ok... I don't know what the deck is... I just plugged that in for arguments sake...
Alright, lemme think about all this... its lot to swallow...
What cam are you running f-bird?
Alright, lemme think about all this... its lot to swallow...
What cam are you running f-bird?
10-02-2002, 09:30 PM
#12
Supreme Member
Originally posted by Xenodrgn
Ahh, ok... I don't know what the deck is... I just plugged that in for arguments sake...
Alright, lemme think about all this... its lot to swallow...
What cam are you running f-bird?
Ahh, ok... I don't know what the deck is... I just plugged that in for arguments sake...
Alright, lemme think about all this... its lot to swallow...
What cam are you running f-bird?
# WG- 1159
Specs are kind of S***y but:
214/224@.050 .442"/.465" lift 112 LSA
Just messing with your head...
lolCome to think of it I've never seen a car that didn't run real well with a Wolverine Cam in it.
Worth consideration....
http://www.blueracer.cranecams.com/
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